Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Ryuga]

I've said this before, but I'm with Monster on this one. The trip wasn't a bad idea and might have led to positive opportunities for the two planets.

EDIT: Grammar.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Oboro

you can talk only about Saaz the one who plan to kill Asseylum as a trigger for the event we saw, not really about Cruhteo that respect the Princess's position, and respect Slaine loyalty to Asseylum. I belive you forgot that Cruhteo was fragged by Saaz for his loyalty to the princess when he found that she was alive.

So everyone are just Slaine, obv after the villain route he start in the last episode of the first cour, and Saaz.

Well, actually, Saazbaum offed Chruteo, because he thought he was about to kill Slaine. He didn't know about Chruteo's realization, but it would have given him even more reason to kill Chruteo. It was just luck on his part it happened that particular way.

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by Ryuga

I've said this before, but I've with Monster on this one. The trip wasn't a bad idea and might have led to positive opportunities for the two planets.

Reasonable people usually try to talk first.

Saaz didn't want that because he didn't wanted peace.

[setsunafseiei]

My wish came true the legendary orange is back but with consequences . So much for the gun being 'symbolic' , once she spout the line "Negotiation between states" we all know who she is .

A bit surprised with fake hime , I thought she would be bitter and throw her sister to outer space but turns out she can be reason with . Now left crutheo jnr and count mazoo to rescue ass hime from the lelouch requiem wannabe .

Next episode sounds like a reunion between Inaho and ass hime . Farewell to Slaine ?
I really hope they don't do something stupid like colony drop like gundam at the final episode . That is just contradicting to get earth resources .

Slaine fan must be angry the fact that Hime doesnt even tried to talk sense to their beloved Slaine instead straight away pointed a gun to him . So much for beloved childhood friend

The next time Slaine meet Inaho he would be probably say its all because of you my girl and my rebellion gone down the drain curse you poker face robot eye emotionless terran scum

[magnuskn]

Well, Slayne is going down, that is easy for everybody to see. His three big allies all went down together, so I don't even know if he has any further knights who follow his orders.

The question is if they will also kill off Inaho by overusing his eye.

Hm, since Asseylum and Lemrina are working together now, couldn't they just agree to remove Aldnoah activation rights from Slayne? That would screw him over immediately.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Oboro

We never seen "anyone"of Vers questioning about Asseylum behaviour in this show

You can talk only about Saaz the one who plan to kill Asseylum as a trigger for the event we saw, not really about Cruhteo that respect the Princess's position, and respect Slaine loyalty to Asseylum. I belive you forgot that Cruhteo was fragged by Saaz for his loyalty to the princess when he found that she was alive.

So everyone are just Slaine, obv after the villain route he start in the last episode of the first cour, and Saaz.

What are you talking about? I was talking about people who clearly spoke their mind to Asseylum when they disagreed with her views. That's it.

Cruhteo expressed several times that he thought what the princess was doing in going to Earth was foolish, but he never really said it to her face plainly.

Saazbaum agreed with him that Asseylum's actions were foolish, but of course didn't say it to her either since he was rather counting on her to go.

Slaine did tell her pointedly that he disagreed with her way of thinking, mostly because of how much he's changed and that he doesn't consider himself a part of Vers anymore.

Don't jump to conclusions on what I was talking about unless you know what I was responding to.

[DMurphy]

Slaine's in a very difficult position now.

He doesn't have Asseylum or Lemrina on side, so he's gone from two Asseylums to none - if another knight asks to see Asseylum, all he can say is 'no, you can't, because [x] reason.' The more people don't see her, the more they're going to be suspicious.

Not to mention that his three-knights-attacking-together gambit failed. Harklight made a big deal about how it was showing the other Orbital Knights the value of being unified under one leader, and how it was reassuring them that they could win this war under Slaine, and it's failed. The blame for the deaths of those three is going to be placed squarely at Slaine's feet, rightly or wrongly, and all those knights who were putting their hopes in Slaine are now going to be feeling very antsy.

That's not even including the things that Slaine doesn't know about, like Count Cruhteo II arriving (and bringing with him, one assumes, a solid claim to the Tharsis), and Mazuurek scheming against him, and Inaho and co presumably on their way to attack the Moon base soon.

Slaine's character arc, in a way, reminds me of Macbeth's: We've seen him rise to power and, in the process, lose sight of his ethics and goals - and now we're seeing things turn sharply downwards for him, and it's pretty much all downhill from here.

[Oboro]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

Well, actually, Saazbaum offed Chruteo, because he thought he was about to kill Slaine. He didn't know about Chruteo's realization, but it would have given him even more reason for Saazbaum to kill him. It was just luck on his part it happened that way.

You are right, we''l never know if Saaz act this way also because he figured that torturing Slaine Chruteo coul'd eventually learn about Asseylum being still alive, as he does at the end, but still Chruteo was Loyal to the princess, is't it?
So at the end "everyone" are, as i told, Just Slaine and from, the second cour and saaz the mastermind beyond the Assassination attempt on Asseylum

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by Oboro

You are right, we''l never know if Saaz act this way also because he figured that torturing Slaine Chruteo coul'd eventually learn about Asseylum being still alive, as he does at the end, but still Chruteo was Loyal to the princess, is't it?
So at the end "everyone" are, as i told, Just Slaine and from, the second cour and saaz the mastermind beyond the Assassination attempt on Asseylum

No, no, I'm pretty sure we do know. Saazbaum was pretty open about his plans to Slaine, he would have said if he'd attacked Cruhteo because he was afraid of him learning about Asseylum being alive.

Saazbaum attacking Cruhteo was purely because he had a debt to repay. I - kind of feel like it's important to be very particular about that, because it's a character defining moment for Saazbaum: It establishes him as someone who will act against his own interests for the sake of following a code of honour, and that's what eventually gets him killed.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by DMurphy

Slaine's in a very difficult position now.

He doesn't have Asseylum or Lemrina on side, so he's gone from two Asseylums to none - if another knight asks to see Asseylum, all he can say is 'no, you can't, because [x] reason.' The more people don't see her, the more they're going to be suspicious.

Not to mention that his three-knights-attacking-together gambit failed. Harklight made a big deal about how it was showing the other Orbital Knights the value of being unified under one leader, and how it was reassuring them that they could win this war under Slaine, and it's failed. The blame for the deaths of those three is going to be placed squarely at Slaine's feet, rightly or wrongly, and all those knights who were putting their hopes in Slaine are now going to be feeling very antsy.

That's not even including the things that Slaine doesn't know about, like Count Cruhteo II arriving (and bringing with him, one assumes, a solid claim to the Tharsis), and Mazuurek scheming against him, and Inaho and co presumably on their way to attack the Moon base soon.

Slaine's character arc, in a way, reminds me of Macbeth's: We've seen him rise to power and, in the process, lose sight of his ethics and goals - and now we're seeing things turn sharply downwards for him, and it's pretty much all downhill from here.

No way those counts who were just getting acquainted to group tactics would be able to outwit those who have way more experience. Once Sebring was taken out, Raffia had no idea what to do and was quickly sniped. With Olga alone, he has to go back to what he's used to and fight alone, and he even has them cornered with his duplication ability that even copies him (reminds me of The Prestige). However, even he can't deal with a coordinated attack that destroys all his clones simultaneously.

[Oboro]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

What are you talking about? I was talking about people who clearly spoke their mind to Asseylum when they disagreed with her views. That's it.

and in this show we only see Saaz, no one else. Again the ppl from vers in first cour belive that asseylum was dead, saaz manage it well also during the ceasefire broadcast. In the second cour Asseylum (Lemrina) spoke from Slaine mouth.

Cruhteo expressed several times that he thought what the princess was doing in going to Earth was foolish, but he never really said it to her face plainly.

That for asseylum security in the journey, not because he dislike her way to think, Cruhteo was loyal to asseylum, he stop to torture Slaine when he learn that Slaine was loyal to Asseylum too.

Saazbaum agreed with him that Asseylum's actions were foolish, but of course didn't say it to her either since he was rather counting on her to go.

wasn't saaz the one who try to kill the princess during the Earth trip? so what are we arguing for?

Slaine did tell her pointedly that he disagreed with her way of thinking, mostly because of how much he's changed and that he doesn't consider himself a part of Vers anymore.

Don't jump to conclusions on what I was talking about unless you know what I was responding to.

No reason to be upset, we share opinion in a forum. I read your posts and you tend alot to construct a background not showed in the actual story that you like better (you said a lot of times that you are a Slaine fan, you try often ot put stuff in a manner that show Slaine in a better shape for your tastes) like this "everyone" and "about people who clearly spoke their mind to Asseylum".
When you say "everyone" while it was only saaz, OVB it was the mastermind for the assassination attempt, and Slaine in the second cour , after the villain route, i belive that are just TWO and NOT "everyone" and that you bring Chruteo out from nowhere . that's all.

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

No way those counts who were just getting acquainted to group tactics would be able to outwit those who have way more experience. Once Sebring was taken out, Raffia had no idea what to do and was quickly sniped. With Olga alone, he has to go back to what he's used and fight alone, and he has them cornered with his duplication ability that even copies him (reminds me of The Prestige). However, even he can't deal with coordinated attack that destroys all his clones simultaneously.

We know that the Orbital Knights thought they could, though. I imagine Slaine thought they could as well (because lest we forget, Slaine isn't a soldier by trade. He's a private tutor and sometimes pilot - he's done remarkably well, all told). Their failure, inevitable or not, is going to absolutely wreck the morale of the Orbital Knights, and their confidence in Slaine, right as a viable alternate leader (Cronkite - who knows how good he is at it, but he's Cruhteo's son, and Cruhteo was very well respected) appears on the scene.

Slaine's best chance of counteracting that would be to use Lemrina to bring the other knights into line, but he can't do that anymore.

[AverageFan]

A random though. If the Ortygia can duplicate it self mech, pilot and drive. What happens to the duplicate after battle? Do they disappear or self distract or something else.

[setsunafseiei]

I was hoping Slaine would heard the news that his blitzkrieg attack was overturned by legendary orange . But never get the chance to do so . Man if he heard about it and combined with Ass hime not cooperating he would probably throw some hissy fit like he did back in season 1 .

I just cant see how he is going to be invading earth once Mars separate into two faction the plebs and the royalist . My guess final battle would be at the moon but its unfair that Inaho is handicapped with eye problem and inferior kataphrakt. Oh well , lets leave that to the best hand of plot armor . It always shines when you least expected

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Oboro

and in this show we only see Saaz, no one else. Again the ppl from vers in first cour belive that asseylum was dead and in the second cour asseylum (lemrina) spoke from Slaine mouth.

that for asseylum security in the journey, not because he dislike her way to think, Cruhteo was loyal to asseylum.

wasn't saaz the one who try to kill the princess during the Earth trip? so what are we arguing for?

no reason to be upset i read a lot of your post and you tend alot to construct a background not showed in the actual story that you like better (you said a lot of times that you are a Slaine fanboy, you pu stuff in a manner that show Slaine in a better shape for your tastes) like this "everyone" and "about people who clearly spoke their mind to Asseylum".
When you say "everyone" while it was only saaz, OVB it was the mastermind for the assassination attempt, and Slaine in the second cour , after the villain route, i belive that are just 2 and NOT "everyone" and that you bring Chruteo out from nowhere. that's all.

This has nothing to do with anything you're talking about. I wasn't even thinking of the assassination attempt or Saazbaum being a traitor. Go back to the early episodes again. Cruhteo wasn't just thinking about the security, he honestly thought the trip itself was useless. Just because he was loyal to the princess doesn't mean he agreed with her in everything. She saw Terrans as equals, and he's your stereotypical Martian racist. He even asked Slaine to try to dissuade her from her trip. He talked to Saazbaum about her going down to do the trip and told him that he had tried his best to dissuade her. Saazbaum agreed with him.

All I'm saying is that not many spoke pointedly to Asseylum if they disagreed with her views because of her royal status. This is stating a fact seen in the show, portrayed by the nobles and their behavior, and it would make perfect sense in their society. They live in an empire, they're not going to question the royals face to face.

My statement had nothing to do with the assassination attempt, the war, or who's to blame. It has nothing to do with Slaine really. I was simply pointing out that he is one of the few from Vers, who told her to her face that he disagreed with her. Practically everyone else of Vers would't have though to because of her position as princess.

[Oboro]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

This has nothing to do with anything you're talking about. I wasn't even thinking of the assassination attempt or Saazbaum being a traitor. Go back to the early episodes again. Cruhteo wasn't just thinking about the security, he honestly thought the trip itself was useless. Just because he was loyal to the princess doesn't mean he agreed with her in everything. She saw Terrans as equals, and he's your stereotypical Martian racist. He even asked Slaine to try to dissuade her from her trip. He talked to Saazbaum about her going down to do the trip and told him that he had tried his best to dissuade her. Saazbaum agreed with him.

All I'm saying is that not many spoke pointedly to Asseylum if they disagreed with her views because of her royal status. This is stating a fact seen in the show, portrayed by the nobles and their behavior, and it would make perfect sense in their society. They live in an empire, they're not going to question the royals face to face.

My statement had nothing to do with the assassination attempt, the war, or who's to blame. It has nothing to do with Slaine really. I was simply pointing out that he is one of the few from Vers, who told her to her face that he disagreed with her. Practically everyone else of Vers would't have though to because of her position as princess.

In a royal system no one dare to contraddict or go against the Royals, even for small things like a trip. And if those are your thoughts i can ovb agree.

but you put it in a way i disagree, like the asseylum way to act or behaviour was always been bring into question from "everyone" (where your everyone are the mastermind who want to overturn the royal system, and the new villain slaine from second cour), and the show did't show at all "everyone" but just 2 ppl.

[p-kun]

I really like Slaine's determination. I always thought that if he is driven purely by lust, rather than a bigger ideal, that will really cheapen his, Harklight's and Saazbaum's characters. Saazbaum must have been happy in his grave if he were to listen to Slaine's retort to the princesses.

I find it interesting that Slaine renounces his terran and vers heritage, and thus, refuses his right to the new world, so it seems he doesn't think he'll survive. I hope he's not going to completely wipe out the terrans before he dies in Zero Requiem style. That'll be boring.

So it seems that the terrans are going to attack either moon base or mars. If moon base is attacked, Inaho will have the chance to rescue Asseylum. What will Slaine do? If mars is attacked, Asseylum's grandfather will likely die. What will Asseylum do? I can't wait to see the next ep.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

As Inaho said, since "Asseylum" really gave up all of her power to Slaine, he's really their leader for the most part and her words would have no effect. The only time she's even coming on now is to tell people they are doing a good job and such. Basically being a motivator.

You're saying this but at the moment all Asseylum needs to do is publicly brand Slaine as a traitor and all his plans crumble. All those counts who are sucking up to him because of the Aldnoah activation factor would turn their backs on him if the princesses no longer support Slaine.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Oboro

In a royal system no one dare to contraddict or go against the Royals, even for small things like a trip. And if those are your thoughts i can ovb agree.

This is what I was talking about, that's it. I was just stating that while there are some people of Vers that may disagree with her views or goals, they never tell her face to face. That's because of the society Vers has. The "everyone" I was talking about was the Versian people, who wouldn't question the princess, even if they disagreed with her because of their society.

When I was talking about Slaine, I was saying that he's more free to pointedly disagree with her and say it aloud because he's changed and he's no long a citizen of Vers. Others who have told Asseylum pointedly that her previous views were wrong are Inaho and Rayet, but since there weren't really citizens of Vers beforehand, I didn't bring them up.

Originally Posted by MartianMage

You're saying this but at the moment all Asseylum needs to do is publicly brand Slaine as a traitor and all his plans crumble. All those counts who are sucking up to him because of the Aldnoah activation factor would turn their backs on him if the princesses no longer support Slaine.

I'm just repeating what Inaho said and implied in that whatever Asseylum says, it wouldn't make much difference anymore.

[Top Sergeant]

Looks like Slaine has become rather Stalin-like. "Everyone will live in one nationality in peace, and I call all the shots, naturally."

Slaine has fallen to the delusion that a Utopia is achievable, and mankind can live in perpetual peace. We cannot (surely we never have). Even if he were to bring every living human into a single people, although it may be peaceful for a few decades, eventually someone would want power for themselves, or factions would rise, internal disputes, something. We can be a fractious and ambitious race.