Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Discussion & News [Spoilers]

[HazardNights]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Or, perhaps the Earth Federation disbands the A-Laws group, and declares them an enemy. Thus creating two sides.

Celestial Being, Earth Federation, Katatron vs A-Laws and the Innovators.

Problem with that is I don't think anyone from the Federation proper would ally themselves with Celestial Being. I still have a hard time believing that those in Kataron are doing that but it's clear they are that desperate and are willing to fight with or simply use those that in all likelihood kill their friends, tried to kill them, and threw their countries into chaos (possibly harming their families). The civilian population of the Federation would never go along with that.

Earth Federation and Kataron together is believable I think. Especially if the Federation changes some of it's ways and turns on the A-Laws. However the Federation and CB is beyond believability in terms of storytelling. You can do some weird and strange things and count on viewers to just accept certain things because it's fantasy. However there is a limit to that. Everything up till not makes the Federation teaming with CB impossible I think due to how CB was introduced and the reason and the events that caused the Federation to be created.

Sure you might have certain characters do that (they'd be killed right along side the rest of CB in the end) but on the whole....no way. Not from what I've seen of this series when it comes to various factions.

[Celestial]

Originally Posted by RDFMASTER

Episode 15 is the one i believe people most think the elevator will collapse

Poor Setsuna will have 24 Hours of piloted the Mobile Suit.

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that the coup will take place in episode 15?

Unless the rebels are the ones who are taking the elevator down, it seems quite likely for the collapse to happen by episode 15...

Either way, I doubt that such a huge and devastating event will take place this early.

[GundamMeisterLockon]

Originally Posted by Celestial

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that the coup will take place in episode 15?

Unless the rebels are the ones who are taking the elevator down, it seems quite likely for the collapse to happen by episode 15...

Either way, I doubt that such a huge and devastating event will take place this early.

i don't think its early 4 anything to happen my self coz its 14th episode and i expect fireworks lol

[console65]

The title for episode 15 "The Resistance's Victory Cry" makes it sound like a coup is taking place. Katharon maybe involved but I feel that the newly introduced character Colonel Pang Hercule maybe the leading man involved. I mean come on, what better way to take control of the Federation than with a lot of squadrons of GN-XIIIs and a whole bunch of flying battleships? Katharon is nothing more than an annoying fly with a bunch of obsolete mobile suits and ships. They couldn't pull off a stunt like that. Hercules will take the capitol of the Federation do doubt about it. But I don't think he will be able to keep it, not on his own. That's where Celestial Being and Katharon comes in. This will take a few episodes (like til ep. 18). I don't know what the storyline will be like after that though....


Anyway, that's my view.

[miles316]

Originally Posted by The Small One

That won't work.
Tau drives don't produce energy. They produce GN particles from energy. But there exists no technology (we know of) to convert GN particles to energy. And even if it were possible, the law of conservation of energy would still apply and they won't get out more energy than they put in.

The GN-T is basically a battery storing energy as GN particles. The GN particles can be used to heat up a medium like water or a metal like lithium or sodium and convert the GN particles in to heat that can run a steam turbine or a thermoelectric metal turning it in to electricity. the particles can be transported long distances. The Federation has already demonstrated the ability to deploy a network of GN particles emitters over a wide area.

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by ZippyDSM

Mmmm...supper high energy bends the rules of physics/logic to their breaking point, while normally you can not can not create energy from energy you can transform it and use the instance of high power output to charge a massive network that's able to maintain that instance of high out put thus creating energy from energy as a side effect.

Also using a multi storage and charge system dose create more power in a sense since it delays going directly to zero power it can be misconstrued that it makes power however all it dose is slow the zeroing out of power.

Most of you are trying much to hard to lay current science theoretical or not upon science fiction who's nature is to bend and transform science, thinking outside the box is better than begin trapped in it....

We're not the ones: despite the pseudo science, 00's has a very solid scientific basis for everything it does, more or less. Therefore, the laws of energy conservation still apply: you can't create energy out of nothing. Further more, it has been stated that the GN Tau drives do not create any power; all they do is create GN particles from the power they are fed + the Catalyst.

And storing energy doesn't creating more power, you're just storing it. It's like saying you are storing a gallon water in a bottle and hoping to get two; it doesn't work like that

[RDF2050]

Originally Posted by Funkatronic

We're not the ones: despite the pseudo science, 00's has a very solid scientific basis for everything it does, more or less. Therefore, the laws of energy conservation still apply: you can't create energy out of nothing. Further more, it has been stated that the GN Tau drives do not create any power; all they do is create GN particles from the power they are fed + the Catalyst.

And storing energy doesn't creating more power, you're just storing it. It's like saying you are storing a gallon water in a bottle and hoping to get two; it doesn't work like that

That's why I always prefer use everything original like PSP Phat [Model 1000] for example

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by Funkatronic

We're not the ones: despite the pseudo science, 00's has a very solid scientific basis for everything it does, more or less. Therefore, the laws of energy conservation still apply: you can't create energy out of nothing. Further more, it has been stated that the GN Tau drives do not create any power; all they do is create GN particles from the power they are fed + the Catalyst.

And storing energy doesn't creating more power, you're just storing it. It's like saying you are storing a gallon water in a bottle and hoping to get two; it doesn't work like that

Making power no as I said that's a misconstruction, you do however under the proper management system you do misplace it just enough to maintain a stable output least until the charging system.

*sigh* What happens when you take 1X power funnel it into a super high out put energy and funnel that force though a few generators to produce more power than the system is using?

That's creating energy from energy in my book because the forces applied its more reasonable than not..

[LordStrike]

Originally Posted by RDFMASTER

That's why I always prefer use everything original like PSP Phat [Model 1000] for example

nothing beat the big fat PSP XD

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by ZippyDSM

Making power no as I said that's a misconstruction, you do however under the proper management system you do misplace it just enough to maintain a stable output least until the charging system.

*sigh* What happens when you take 1X power funnel it into a super high out put energy and funnel that force though a few generators to produce more power than the system is using?

That's creating energy from energy in my book because the forces applied its more reasonable than not..

First of all, some energy is always lost in that, cause energy conversion is never and probably will never be 1 to 1. You can never, ever get more energy out of a system than what you put in. The energy has to come from somewhere, whether from energy you put in or matter, which you transform from matter into energy. If you could get something from nothing, we wouldn't be in an energy crisis. Running out of oil wouldn't be a big deal cause you could just make more out of thin air. It doesn't work that way and just because the 00 universe has some pseudo science to explain a few things doesn't mean you can do that as well.


Even if it was, once you actually pull some of that energy to, I don't know, actually use it, bam, some it is gone.

Here is your problem: you can convert energy all you want but once you use it for something that is actually useful, like powering cities, that energy is lost to powering that city. You can't take it back.

[Nerroth]

Originally Posted by LordStrike

nothing beat the big fat PSP XD

The PSP-2000 I had hooked up to the TV playing music today disagrees with you.

[LordStrike]

Originally Posted by Nerroth

The PSP-2000 I had hooked up to the TV playing music today disagrees with you.

XD normally im at home i play PS3 or xbox360 im out side i place PSP. i don't play PSP at home so i don't need to have it to the tv

that topic of energy conversion should go on the 00 tech forum is actually really interesting to be here o.o

[Ribbons]

Originally Posted by miles316

How are you going to move billions and billions of people. Even if all three elevators could move a hundred thousand people a day. The elevators would take years to empty the earth far longer than the season which takes place over one year.

Yeah, I know, that's the part that bugs me. Maybe he'll only take those he deems worthy?

[LordStrike]

Originally Posted by Ribbons

Yeah, I know, that's the part that bugs me. Maybe he'll only take those he deems worthy?

we know he thinks of himself as some kind of god so we may spec that of him :P

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by Funkatronic

First of all, some energy is always lost in that, cause energy conversion is never and probably will never be 1 to 1. You can never, ever get more energy out of a system than what you put in. The energy has to come from somewhere, whether from energy you put in or matter, which you transform from matter into energy. If you could get something from nothing, we wouldn't be in an energy crisis. Running out of oil wouldn't be a big deal cause you could just make more out of thin air. It doesn't work that way and just because the 00 universe has some pseudo science to explain a few things doesn't mean you can do that as well.


Even if it was, once you actually pull some of that energy to, I don't know, actually use it, bam, some it is gone.

Here is your problem: you can convert energy all you want but once you use it for something that is actually useful, like powering cities, that energy is lost to powering that city. You can't take it back.

And you miss the point chain 10 generator systems together(each has 5 turbines that run off the force beam that's put though them, they are lined up with together so you can shoot the beam through the all and at the end have a partial energy gathering panel that absorbs the particles sending 2 or 3% of the total of whatever engery/force is left into the grid ) the first generator or 2 handles all the power needs for the particle beam system. The catalyst for starting the process would probably be a energy reserve of some kind to boot the process up, the generators not being used to maintain the beam systems power the grid.


Now there are issues using this set up, the power conversion is about say 170% give or take a few percentile points, around 250% if you can run the beam system off 1 generator, oh and the power that goes to the beam system is separate from what goes to the grid..

The biggest problem is not power conversion as much as running a high level particle beam through the system, altho if you can lower the penetrating power of the beam without losing alot of force the system should run relatively maintenance free.

With super high energy you can harness its "force" much more efficiently than any other "man made" process, like having a powerful DC motor that works on 1AH you have 5 strung together on 5 alternators putting out more than enough to run the system and create power, even this has issues motors and the chemicals in the energy storage systems tend to fail ...that and imaginary motors are very imaginary :P.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

the power conversion is about say 170%

How many times do all of us have to repeat ourselves... You can't go above 100%!

You can't, period. That's all there is to it. The Tau Drive does not MAKE any energy at all. That's what makes them different from True GN Drives.

And "but it is magic" does not cut it as an answer. The "magic" does exist in the form of the Topological Defect in the True Drives, but that does not exist in the Tau. Tau has no magic at all, and it does NOT make any new energy, nor does it amplify any energy. That's a FACT.

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

How many times do all of us have to repeat ourselves... You can't go above 100%!

You can't, period. That's all there is to it. The Tau Drive does not MAKE any energy at all. That's what makes them different from True GN Drives.

And "but it is magic" does not cut it as an answer. The "magic" does exist in the form of the Topological Defect in the True Drives, but that does not exist in the Tau. Tau has no magic at all, and it does NOT make any new energy, nor does it amplify any energy. That's a FACT.

Dude......... how many times do I have to say it you have 5 turbines on the beam feed with each one past the first you lose about 10% of max energy production per unit. This means that yes you can PRODUCE POWER above what you are putting in.

Lets try it like this you use 100-190 points of power to power the beam weapon, leaving 80+ 70+ 60+ points of power to be placed into the grid, now take the max produce points of of the unit that's 400 points created, remove 100-190 to power the beam system and you have a grand total of 210, on in laymens terms you have 210% power production as compared to a single turbine running at full power.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ZippyDSM

Dude......... how many times do I have to say it you have 5 turbines on the beam feed with each one past the first you lose about 10% of max energy production per unit. This means that yes you can PRODUCE POWER above what you are putting in.

Lets try it like this you use 100-190 points of power to power the beam weapon, leaving 80+ 70+ 60+ points of power to be placed into the grid, now take the max produce points of of the unit that's 400 points created, remove 100-190 to power the beam system and you have a grand total of 210, on in laymens terms you have 210% power production as compared to a single turbine running at full power.

The amount of power generated by the GN-drive can NOT be more than the electricity you put in.

If each turbine captures 10% energy, the first turbine will catch 10%, the second will catch 10% of the remainder 90%, which would be 9%, followed by 8.1%, 7.29% and 6.561%. This adds up to 40.951% energy captured. That's how ENGINEERING works. You can't keep adding turbines and assuming you will get infinite energy. At BEST, you get 100%, using an infinite number of turbines, but that assumes no heat loss.

Each time your turbine gains electricity, it WEAKENS the energy of the Tau drive! So there will be none left at the end which adds up to 100%, rather than going into infinity like you are suggesting.

And you know what? If GN-particles don't lose energy as they pass through turbines, that would mean they don't lose any energy at all. Using your logic, a beam of GN-particles would be able to pass through an enemy mobilesuit, through a mountain, through the center of the Earth, out the other side, and continue traveling into deep space, killing anything it touches for all eternity. If the particles are like that, then yes, your turbine chain could work. But it DOESN"T work like that.

[ZippyDSM]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The amount of power generated by the GN-drive can NOT be more than the electricity you put in.

If each turbine captures 10% energy, the first turbine will catch 10%, the second will catch 10% of the remainder 90%, which would be 9%, followed by 8.1%, 7.29% and 6.561%. This adds up to 40.951% energy captured. That's how ENGINEERING works. You can't keep adding turbines and assuming you will get infinite energy. At BEST, you get 100%, using an infinite number of turbines, but that assumes no heat loss.

Each time your turbine gains electricity, it WEAKENS the energy of the Tau drive! So there will be none left at the end which adds up to 100%, rather than going into infinity like you are suggesting.

No the turbines lose 10% efficiency as you move down the line, so you start with 100% output, then 90%, then 80% output, then 70% output, then 60% output.

If it takes 190 or 47% of 5 turbine output to maintain the system you still have a 52.5 output on 5 large turbines that are powered endlessly thus you create a stable almost endless power source ..that is if the machinery is built well enough.

AS a I said before you need a catalyst to start the process get it running and then let it power itself off the first couple of turbines.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ZippyDSM

No the turbines lose 10% efficiency as you move down the line, so you start with 100% output, then 90%, then 80% output, then 70% output, then 60% output.

Nope.

If you start with 100% output, then the process stops. If 100% of the GN drive energy is re-converted to electricity, there IS no more downstream to power anything at all. You get 0% output for the second turbine, because the first had took all the energy.

How do you think turbines work? They generate electricity by taking power AWAY from the source. So if 100% of the GN drive power is turned to electricity, there is none left to run the turbines downstream.

And even IF your magical perpetual motion generator works, it would not need Tau Drives. You can technically attach it to any powerplant turbine and have the same result. If conservation of energy does not work, who need GN particles?