(L) To Aru Kagaku no Accelerator - Manga Discussion

[SibylEnd]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

not sure, he didnt seem to actually know of magics existence so i doubt that he actually does the pod-thingys because of that

what he does (and more or less any other researcher at that point in AC) is to try and prove theorys, so his attempt is simply another way of solving the problem

I dunno, the chapter shows he has already worked with a magician, and he doesn't really need to know about magic to know that his attempts leave the subjects dead for whatever reason.
Life-force is literally just vitality(you really don't need magic knowledge to know about it) with necromancy providing an individual with an external source of life-force you've got some interesting potential there. In regards to developing the perfect body, there would be ways to artificially increase the productive output of the body i.e. artificial blood dilation(increases the concentration of red-blood cells in the body) and so on. With academy city pumping a lot of drugs into espers it would stand to reason that they are intentionally using a regulated dosage so much so that the individual doesn't die(i'm presuming that's why villain boys sister died).
Urgh; this is pointless, I really don't know enough about espers to go any further, I only brought up the life-force thing since I'm convinced it's related to how espers produce their phenomenon.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

i doubt that anything he does will come close to kazakiri or a artifical angel,
most likely villian boy thinks that the most versalite power (psychokinesis) boosted by a network of thousands of brains will be "perfect"...

less kazakiri, more a.i.m burst. a.i.m beings seem to be one of the few science based entities to give accel a run for his money, or will we be stuck with accel fighting mechs for the next 40 chapters . Psychokinesis would be pretty powerful and theoretically that kind of power could defeat accel if you can produce a magnitude/scalar value from inside his body (like what happened earlier). i'm more interested in what you could do with macro manipulation of particles with that esper power.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by SibylEnd

Urgh; this is pointless, I really don't know enough about espers to go any further, I only brought up the life-force thing since I'm convinced it's related to how espers produce their phenomenon.

i also think that is possible, it is a theory of mine that maybe aleister is changing the souls of the persons in question and turn the usually "must be controlled"-mana into a energy that easily leaves their body all the time, therefore espers cant use magic too, afterall their bodys are in constant a "magic-using" mode, and than suddenly using a second spell without incredibly fine control (and in a very very small scale (like accelso far)) it will overload the body and cause the explosion

less kazakiri, more a.i.m burst. a.i.m beings seem to be one of the few science based entities to give accel a run for his money, or will we be stuck with accel fighting mechs for the next 40 chapters .

i think that mechas are more likely to happen

Psychokinesis would be pretty powerful and theoretically that kind of power could defeat accel if you can produce a magnitude/scalar value from inside his body (like what happened earlier). i'm more interested in what you could do with macro manipulation of particles with that esper power.

actually, Vector manipulation also counts to psychokinesis, but the requirement in the calc departments would be impossibly big

[SibylEnd]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

actually, Vector manipulation also counts to psychokinesis, but the requirement in the calc departments would be impossibly big

Not for a machine, that is assuming the machines are the ones throwing in already completed calculations into the dead/trapped esper and not the esper itself.
Then theres Accels plasma using a tree-diagram esq calculation feat of particle level calculous (volume 3 describes how Accel had to manipulate the air particle by particle). I was thinking more along the lines of indirectly synthesising a energy burst by messing with electrons of particle vectors(similar to the bursts of annihilation energy produced by meltdowners manipulation of an electrons charge), I should stop using scalar examples; now that i've remembered the Heisenberg principle which states that anything that doesn't have momentum/vector would be delocalised from the universe.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by SibylEnd

Not for a machine, that is assuming the machines are the ones throwing in already completed calculations into the dead/trapped esper and not the esper itself.

if the machine boosts the esper brains calc speed and "amount" (as in the difficulty of calcs) than i dont think a complete calculation need to be put in,
it is similar to how accel takes the calc power of the network, he himself is basically controlling it but the network is increasing the amount and speed of the calcs

[DragonXX]

I can't wait for what happen next, just because for the first time in Index we have a demon show up and I want to see what a demon can do and it seen like the Demon is Planning to make an army of demon by bringing back dead body and that is far more awesome then the new guy LVL 6 shift. I hope Accel is the one who fight the demon and the blade does not work on it.

[LevelSeven]

ch.23

seems like the translation group woke up from their sleep, we already got 3 more chapters in less than a month :O

but unfortunatly more chapters doesnt mean better story
accel is STILLLLLL struggling with this low-lvl bullshitters -_-
and to make it worse, the ONLY thing which villian boy wanted was the memorys of the 10031 deaths inside the network -_- it seems like they can do something with that

so...how many people got killed by this "little fight"?

i will spoil a bit since i saw the raws:

Spoiler for 24+:

accel is STILL not finishing the villain boy and co because they teleport him away than he must go against gaint mehcas... *sigh*

PS: does anyone else feel reminded on heavy objects in this chapter? the weapons are awfully similar :/

[The One Above God]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

ch.23

seems like the translation group woke up from their sleep, we already got 3 more chapters in less than a month :O

but unfortunatly more chapters doesnt mean better story
accel is STILLLLLL struggling with this low-lvl bullshitters -_-
and to make it worse, the ONLY thing which villian boy wanted was the memorys of the 10031 deaths inside the network -_- it seems like they can do something with that

so...how many people got killed by this "little fight"?

i will spoil a bit since i saw the raws:

Spoiler for 24+:

accel is STILL not finishing the villain boy and co because they teleport him away than he must go against gaint mehcas... *sigh*

PS: does anyone else feel reminded on heavy objects in this chapter? the weapons are awfully similar :/

Spoiler for 24+:

Aw, thought there'd be bloodbath. Looks like I'll be expecting more wreckage instead.

[SibylEnd]

This latest chapter looks to be confirmation that espers utilise life-force for their phenomenon creation or at the very least that life-force modification can influence an espers potential. And yet another mention of soul/mind; take that as you will (I count 3 so far).

I figured esper powers were similar to magician powers and required a balance of life-force and mana to properly produce the phenomenon; but it seems that with espers you can manipulate the life-force however you like and still produce the power. I know esper brains are different than humans and hence their mental energy/mind/soul output would be weird, but it just seems weird that this kind of robust power boosting works at all, goes against everything we've established. After all; we already saw what happens when you modify someones life-force in the daihaseisai arc when stiyl was afflicted by the short hand grimoire, as well as when fukiyose (AN ESPER) had her life-force modified.
Edit: or was that her activating a spell; it was unclear, seems she did both at the same time which might have actually helped her case.
Edit2: now that i think about it the short hand spell would have been constantly causing her pain with her A.I.M esper ability being constantly produced but she seemed to only suffer from the rejection effect and nothing more. Assuming the spell didn't cancel out the second she suffered rejection but the spell seemed to still be in effect when styli was initially hurt by the shorthand, but that didn't seem to be the case as accelerator seemed capable of completing a spell even with the rejection happening in OT22, so does life-force alteration really do absolutely nothing to an esper? I edit too much...

Although I don't think Villian boi is on the right track; while it would be possible to boost a espers output by developing the vitality he should really be looking for the golden formula that Aleister developed for recognising who has the potential to become a level-5 (Mugino made this observation in OT22) since the mystery of espers has been known for several years now(but never been revealed... damn Aleistar; tell us already). That and he'll just run into the issue of espers destabilising at certain levels like Misaka was going to in her level-6 shift.

[itine]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

ch.23
seems like the translation group woke up from their sleep

The Accel Anon Translation Group doesn't sleep
In that time, they just don't have Japanese Raw (Chp 19,20)
the Raw contributor was MIA.
And js06 won't/can't translate from Korean or Chinese either.

As you maybe know "That Vol.5" (chp 19 to 24) is pure from D. Daioh (Digital Publish) has the highest quality than scans.
Someone good samaritan buys that online and gives to us for free, and now we can continue to enjoy the rest of new chapter.

[LevelSeven]

^than why didnt they translate the other raws? its not like it is so difficult to follow the current plot

but that doesnt matter, we are now one or two chapters away from catching up (not that the story got any better) to the raws, the delay at least it made several chapters in a month possible :]

[itine]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

we are now one or two chapters away from catching up

No
All Vol.5 chapters (chp 19 to 24.5) ~ with 4 pages omake, including the latest (chp 25) are already translated
(look only on bato.to it's against rules give any links here )

[LevelSeven]

^thanks, i saw the raws but didnt see the translated chapters uploaded in my usual manga sides

EDIT: now that i have read ch. 24 and 25 i must say:

interesting that accel doesnt seem to be autmatically immune to teleportation if his ability is active, a sneak attack while accel isnt reflecting the 11th dimension should actually work...

and more than anything, this whole fight makes the way accel acted in Vol12/13 even more bullshitty,
once he is countered by the psychokinesis mecha he kept his distance and attacked with other things, i find it sad that kamachi doesnt give him actual dangers that will require his full powerlist and are still a big thread

[SibylEnd]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

interesting that accel doesn't seem to be autmatically immune to teleportation if his ability is active, a sneak attack while accel isnt reflecting the 11th dimension should actually work...

Really depends; i'm not sure all teleporters function using the same basis, they all seem to use different means of teleporting; i'd compare this more to the darkmatter scenario where there was an instance when kakine could get a hit in, but accel got used to the nature of the attack and learned to properly counter it. also is it just me or does it look like this type of teleportation doesn't preserve momentum/

I'm still surprised though, as I strongly believed that the "interesting phenomenon" produced when accel interacts with cross dimensional vectors would produce dimensional wreckage similar to curtanas manipulation of dimensions, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Although I never believed Accel was completely immune to teleportation. manipulating vectors across dimensions would be level-6 stuff.

[LevelSeven]

^toaru teleportation usually always works the same (11th dimension etc) it is only that more calc power results in more convenient versions(move point) whike less results in more restrictive applications (teleport to someones back), if he is vulnerable to one than he should be vulnerable to all other ones :/

Btw, the “interesting phenomen“ is only happening if accel completly redirects the 11th dim vectors, mostlikely this means that the teleport-immunity must be activated instead of being automatic like with acid for ecample

[SibylEnd]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

^toaru teleportation usually always works the same (11th dimension etc) it is only that more calc power results in more convenient versions(move point) whike less results in more restrictive applications (teleport to someones back), if he is vulnerable to one than he should be vulnerable to all other ones :/

Btw, the “interesting phenomen“ is only happening if accel completly redirects the 11th dim vectors, mostlikely this means that the teleport-immunity must be activated instead of being automatic like with acid for ecample

Figured this out a while ago but never posted it; seems more likely that if accelerator is truly being transported through the 11th dimension; then his radio choker would stop working (figured you would have a bad signal in another dimension). so the idea that teleportation doesn't work on accelerator would only apply to him before the nerf, while I'd imagine that he could still reflect objects that are being teleported towards him and other cross dimensional vectors when he is connected to the network.

Also latest chapter discussion I guess; RIP Villian Boy. I will never manage to remember your real name, that and this conflict is dragging on for too long; once accel beats Villian Boy's sister I hope we can time skip to maybe a battle royal arc or something. didn't the railgun manga finish it's first arc after the same amount of chapters?

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by SibylEnd

Figured this out a while ago but never posted it; seems more likely that if accelerator is truly being transported through the 11th dimension; then his radio choker would stop working (figured you would have a bad signal in another dimension). so the idea that teleportation doesn't work on accelerator would only apply to him before the nerf, while I'd imagine that he could still reflect objects that are being teleported towards him and other cross dimensional vectors when he is connected to the network.

lets put logic aside, toaru is using techno-babble so real science is not that important

either way, the LN mentioned that a strange phenomenon would happen IF accel reflected the 11th dimension vectors, that means that he is able to do it and that he did it once but it is a thing he must want to happen, that means a suprise teleportation attack with...lets say a pen into his brain will work as good as always

Also latest chapter discussion I guess; RIP Villian Boy. I will never manage to remember your real name, that and this conflict is dragging on for too long; once accel beats Villian Boy's sister I hope we can time skip to maybe a battle royal arc or something. didn't the railgun manga finish it's first arc after the same amount of chapters?

really? he finally died? thakn god
this story really dragged on forever and still does... i remember that i was around end of my first year of uni and witnessed the first chapter release,
not im close to ending and this issue that lasted 20-24 hours is still not done

[SibylEnd]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

lets put logic aside, toaru is using techno-babble so real science is not that important

really? he finally died? thakn god
this story really dragged on forever and still does... i remember that i was around end of my first year of uni and witnessed the first chapter release,
not im close to ending and this issue that lasted 20-24 hours is still not done

Spoiler for latest scans:

I Kinda just played with the idea that he'll die there. he's just been stabbed, and it was deep enough to cause him to cough up blood. Please let him die, and i'm talking about the chapter that was released a while back but no one talked about

To close this discussion that's better suited in the "ways to defeat Accel" thread but is sort of relevant since it's something that happened here.
In regards to the "want" function, if we go back to the dark-matter incident; accelerator saw the dark matter attack coming. Naturally accelerator would want to reflect the attack but couldn't, simply because he didn't know how to at the time. After that he could reflect the dark matter attack once he came to understand the science behind it, so it could simply be that Accelerator didn't do his homework on 11th dimensional travel or doesn't have the necessary understanding to reflect every dimensional vector variant. then there is the implication that Accel's wings consist of dark matter, implying that there are different types of dark matter and each one needs to be registered or scientifically dissected for Accel to reflect it automatically. This is what I think is happening here, as we have no data regarding what type of teleportation was used on him in that initial experiment.

so in theory his power can manipulate every vector; but wether he has the ability to utilise his potential is subject to questioning.

Then there's also the fact that accelerator doesn't mess with his location vector (doesn't reflect gravity or he would be thrown out of orbit: OT5) and prefers to simply walk everywhere normally like everyone else does, I'm presuming this extends to his location across dimensional planes for the sake of this point. Thus esper powers that mess with his location data could penetrate his reflection shield. That or there could just be a limit on his control of dimensional Vectors (i.e. so can he change his position in the 4th plane and theoretically time travel or some shit?) Edit: TOKIYO TOMARU!

Then there is the time he was attacked multiple times when he was a child; it's not like he reflected those attacks because he wanted to hurt people but because he wanted to defend himself. Likewise he would still have that desire to protect himself from outside interference, especially when he was in battle. So I doubt he just let his guard down or something when he hasn't done that before ever. There are multiple ways this could work; with "whops I forgot to turn on my reflection! Baka" being the most boring of the lot right next to "i'm dumb and don't get all the 11th dimension shit", although ditzy accelerator sounds hilarious. I'll acknowledge your theory, but I don't think it's absolute.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by SibylEnd

Spoiler for latest scans:

I Kinda just played with the idea that he'll die there. he's just been stabbed, and it was deep enough to cause him to cough up blood. Please let him die, and i'm talking about the chapter that was released a while back but no one talked about

why did you destroy my illusions?
caughing up blood in fiction is like vomitting, people do it all the time but plot wont let them die, as long as villian boys head is on his shoulders i will doubt any development in this sh*tty story

as for the other discussion:

After that he could reflect the dark matter attack once he came to understand the science behind it, so it could simply be that Accelerator didn't do his homework on 11th dimensional travel or doesn't have the necessary understanding to reflect every dimensional vector variant.

i doubt that there are "other kinds of the 11th dimension",
plus, he LN mentioned in OT5 or so that a strange phenomenon happens if accel reflects the 11th dimension, that means he must have done it at some point before the story began...

[DragonXX]

Have any one see the spoiler for chapter 27. Crowley for the first time show up out of the Index main series.
Also it seen the demon is about to transform and it get both Crowley and Index attendance which mean things are about to get serious. If anything get Crowley attendance it usually really bad news.

[itine]

Spoiler for (Index & Crowley) feeling disturbance in "magic" force ?:

they both connected ? Why?
Oh My Magic God!