2008-10-02, 02:03 | Link #61 | |||||||||
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
I'll bite.
Sure, shoot. Quote:
Quote:
ZOMG I used Wiki for law reference. Harvey Birdman I'm coming for your job. Quote:
Quote:
Thou shalt not kill - unless there's a point to it. We don't want those "senseless deaths". The rest are cool though. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I may sound cold and heartless in these replies but it's to make a point. I don't presume to be a master of life or death, I don't presume to make others conform to my ideals of right or wrong. I prefer to leave the choice of abortion to the only person that should make that decision - the woman who is pregnant. That isn't to say that I feel that all abortions are equal. Late term abortions, just wrong. Pregnancies where the woman cannot have a say (mentally ill, for instance), that's debatable. Victims of rape and incest should always have a choice. Parents who know the child will be born with defects should always have a choice. But the point is, it's a choice. That's the crux of the argument on both sides. Pro-life wants the choice to be removed, Pro-choice is self explanatory. You can say that Pro-choice hurts the baby, but Pro-life hurts the mother. But either way, someone is getting hurt, and when the choice is gridlocked, you should leave it open to belief. Do you want your child? Don't have an abortion. Don't want the child? Abortion is one choice, but consider your options first. Presuming of course, that the mothers are in sound mind and body and able to make their own decisions. You can't please everyone all of the time....for now.
__________________
|
|||||||||
2008-10-02, 02:06 | Link #62 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Quote:
So, the Bible places no emphasize on a fetus outside of a fine. To extend the quotes further, life is only established as the "breath" of God (as evidienced by Genesis), and is only known to exist after the child exits the womb. The Bible does not condemn abortion, but even if it did, the majority of the world lives under a secular government, and not a theocracy, so religion has not basis for the discussion of the legality of abortion. So, let's not focus on Religion in regards to a discussion concerning Abortion, considering the fact that most religions do not have actual rules dealing with abortion. Last edited by james0246; 2008-10-02 at 02:16. |
|
2008-10-02, 02:15 | Link #63 | |
Honyaku no Hime
Fansubber
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
|
O.o
Wow... nothing like waking up and seeing a good majority of the male general chat Asuki members get into long ass debates about abortion, great way to start the day. O.o I'm gonna sit on the fence with this one, simply cause i'm gonna get emotionally involved without question (once you've seen what a 5 month (20 weeks) feotus looks like dead, it's kinda hard as a woman to be detached. 10 fingers, 10 toes, all facial features, some hair, genitalia defined (so u can tell if its a boy/girl), by 5 months it's all there. From some of the answers I've read here, it may help if you brush up on all stages of pregnancy month by month before answering...) Also rape and abortion (in addition to my faith and morals) are only things i'm forced to think about as a woman since hitting age 12/13, whether from a religious standpoint, or a safety standpoint, or a health stand point, it's not an easy choice to make. (Well it shouldn't be, some women use it as a method of contreception cause they're too irresponsible to have safe sex or use other forms of contreception to prevent it in the first place) That much disgusts me to hell, I swear they should have their tubes tied. -.- Quote:
One of best friends, shes in mid 20's, docs told her mum to abort her for fear of health safety issues for her mother, mother didn't listen, gave birth, she's still alive and has a younger sister. If her mother listened, she wouldn't be here today, i'd not have known her, etc etc. There are too many ways to see this. Thinking outside of the West, abortion not only comes in form of doctors and hospitals, many asian and african countries sometimes take herbs that force a miscarriage (this is traumatic like you can't believe) cause the option of bringing the child into the world isn't feasible via their social status or from an illicit affair or even their job. (Yes, I've kinda have researched into the asian prostitution industry before, wanted to know what women are forced to do if accidently pregnant.) There are so so so many varibles, in some places, its not even the choice of the woman, but of the man. *shrug* Eitherway, to keep on a general level where most peeps can relate to (human laws!) UK's stance on it is this, the MP's had a re-look at all laws regarding human life in May and this was the latest decision. MP's reject lessening abortion limit No offence to the guys here, but it does annoy me to see some of the proposals for the limit to be reduced (from women) rejected by a bunch of stuffy ass old men who'd probably have heart attacks if they saw a woman go into labour in front of them. The against lowering lot seemed to prefer to rely on 'medical science' only to jutisfy their claims, but it seemed that if most had the choice, they wouldn't even have voted anyways, too touchy a subject, lol. Results where: 233 to reduce. 304 to leave it at 24 weeks. The votes were received from a mix of Tories, Labs, Lim Dem's and a few other parties too. The rest of the embryology and abortion votes links are on the right side of the website, knock yourself out. (I guess I'm curious to see how other countries politicans feel about it... aside from US, there's this mass Red vs Blue stance on it that feels very unrealistic other there) :\ *jumps to sit on fence*
__________________
Last edited by Mystique; 2008-10-02 at 02:38. |
|
2008-10-02, 02:41 | Link #67 | |
Μ ε r c ü r υ
Join Date: Jun 2004
|
Quote:
|
|
2008-10-02, 04:39 | Link #70 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
|
I think only the person who is having the baby can say whether it is right or wrong. Its like amputating a part of themself so they should have the right to choose.
Anyway, i think it is better to abort if there is no intention to care for the child when he is born. |
2008-10-02, 05:59 | Link #71 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
|
i second Mystiques opionion and observation;
The slight bewilderment at mainly males chatting on abortion. You can call me whatever you like but I am a 20 year old college male, with no designs on children (at least not until i can actually support them) so I officially have no real stance on it, I always saw that more of something to be left up to females scince they birth children not males. |
2008-10-02, 06:18 | Link #72 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto Canada
|
The bible also says that its better a baby not be born then to live a evil life, although they said it a bit different and it sounded more old school, I think its wrong though your still taking a life that baby would grown up and become a normal human like you or me its wrong very very wrong
|
2008-10-02, 06:39 | Link #73 | ||||||
Don't forget your lunch!
|
All of the following is meant to simply present my views. I have no intention of forcing them upon anyone else, like a lot of people seem to believe that that is what we "Conservative Christians" do.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Therefore, in both cases the woman is hurt regardless. You cannot justify abortion by saying it has next to no harmful affect toward the woman. Quote:
Quote:
2. Most of the world may be secular, aye, but most of the world is also democratic. Why do I bring this up? Because in a democracy, the people vote and decide. Are the people all secular? No. Myself included, there are still a good number of religious people in the world and in these so-proud democratic countries. So what's my point? Every political decision in these "secular countries" is still influenced by religion as is every law passed. 3. The Bible says, in the passage you cite, that "her fruit depart from her". That does not mean abortion is acceptable. What do a good deal of women do with unwanted children? Put them up for adoption (or whatever the equivalent thereof would be in their time period/age/location). 4. Initial creation =/= following offspring. The initial humans were formed out of dirt and water--essentially being a statue--and only received life following God breathing into it. 5. Why do most religions not have laws banning abortion? Because abortion is a modern concept. Every one of the major world religions had established its laws and the like by the year 700 AD, with Islam being the last. Quote:
Again, believe what you will. This is just where I stand. |
||||||
2008-10-02, 07:23 | Link #74 | ||||||
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So yes, damage to both. Forgive me for neglecting to mention it, the omission was my forgetfulness and not an intention of being misleading. Quote:
The "lesser of two evils" moral decision still leaves you with a bad choice. Quote:
__________________
|
||||||
2008-10-02, 10:22 | Link #76 | |
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
|
Quote:
"listen up bitch, a word of this to anyone and you are dead meat" The poor soul is scared to death, doesn't say a word to anyone in weeks/months and then.......poof! Her family starts to notice a little too late. >_<!
__________________
|
|
2008-10-02, 11:45 | Link #77 |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
|
This debate is absolutely pointless. Since the answer depends crucially on one's individual definition of "person" or "human being". A three months old fetus doesn't fulfill the necessary prerequisites in my book. And everything else follows from here.
I just sometimes wish the lives of already born humans would find equally dedicated defenders, for example in the health or defense ministries.
__________________
|
2008-10-02, 13:41 | Link #79 |
Black Dragon
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In the Netherrealm, thinking who to betray next...
|
Well, it's interesting to see a theme of this
Actually in my country, the abortation is a big polemic because it was just legalisated Now, personally I should say no, raped or not, the baby is inocent at the end But then I think, bring a poor creature to a world in wich noone is ginna love it, in wich he/ she will be probably send to an orphan, or to stay in a home, in wich his/ her mother will hate him/her and it will grow without love... that sounds even more cruel
__________________
|
2008-10-02, 14:19 | Link #80 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
Quote:
I seem to recall that the Catholic Church didn't consider the baby "alive" (acceptable for baptism) until 7 days had passed. Too many of them didn't make it anyway.
__________________
|
|
|
|