(CR) Legend of the Galactic Heroes remake [2018] Anticipation

[RDNexus]

I've been enjoying Arslan quite much and the art-style is no problem to me

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

If you look at the episode count of Kenshin's latest OVA and the material it has to cover, anybody would've screw it up anyway. Even Martin Scorsese won't be able to save it .

Nah, it was simply horrible writing. Was that Shishio/Yumi sex scene really necessary? (Especially when we see him fry Usui just seconds later, yay for continuity I guess?) Or the part which is pretty much five minutes of talking heads? I'm no fan of the Rurouni Kenshin OVAs to start with, but at least with the earlier ones I didn't get the feeling that the writer had no idea what kind of story they were trying to tell and what they were trying to say ith it. I thought the latest offering was just plain dumb.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Did you drop Arslan Senki anime that's airing now? It is good, and many people enjoy the fine story by Yoshi adapted into TV series. And nobody is complaining hard about Arakawa's artistic-choice except for haters and novel/OVA-elitists so far.

Me, I don't like the art and the overall visual style, and find it distracting so... Still, I could've dealt that, if it wasn't for the overall overall tone change (suddenly Arslan is a shounen adventure? OK), and the various other changes and additions (was it really necessary to turn Arslan into a "naive but good-intentioned sweetiepie who charms people's hearts"?), and what I hear about the way they're rushing with the later episodes is not appealing at all, either, so yeah, I dropped it. Maybe it gets better later on (although based on what I hear it doesn't seem to be the case), but I think there's no use watching it if I'll just be annoyed at it and be angry about what could have been. Sometimes people don't like what other people like.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Nah, it was simply horrible writing. Was that Shishio/Yumi sex scene really necessary? (Especially when we see him fry Usui just seconds later, yay for continuity I guess?) Or the part which is pretty much five minutes of talking heads? I'm no fan of the Rurouni Kenshin OVAs to start with, but at least with the earlier ones I didn't get the feeling that the writer had no idea what kind of story they were trying to tell and what they were trying to say ith it. I thought the latest offering was just plain dumb.

I find the sex scene and then killing amusing, actually. I mean, since I know the newest ova (what was the title, again?) will naturally be a trainwreck regardless, why not go all out with the absurdity? And the “five minutes of talking heads” never bothered me. That said, that ova is a mess and will/would be a mess no matter who works on it.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Me, I don't like the art and the overall visual style, and find it distracting so... Still, I could've dealt that, if it wasn't for the overall overall tone change (suddenly Arslan is a shounen adventure? OK), and the various other changes and additions (was it really necessary to turn Arslan into a "naive but good-intentioned sweetiepie who charms people's hearts"?), and what I hear about the way they're rushing with the later episodes is not appealing at all, either, so yeah, I dropped it.

Though I know that Arslan TV cut and changed some fine details and complexities of the novel, I wouldn’t say they did a bad job with the story (though the animation could’ve been better). And I also like their choice of leaving a certain “rise of a demon-lord” plot out (for now) to focus the story more on the political side and keeping the “magic” as minimum as possible and not giving the impression that this is yet another fantasy series where the hero have to deal with the revival of a dark-lord (we already have Rokka no Yuusha focusing heavily on that very premise this season ). And about the rushing, that’s more of a complaint from source-readers. The pacing actually works for anime-only watchers (some of them even want the anime to hurry up and go back to Pars and not dwell in Sindhura any longer in the latest episodes).

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Maybe it gets better later on (although based on what I hear it doesn't seem to be the case), but I think there's no use watching it if I'll just be annoyed at it and be angry about what could have been. Sometimes people don't like what other people like.

Not trying to judge your taste or force you to change your mind or anything like that, just saying that Arslan Senki TV series is not awful and actually works on many levels and considered a good anime (at the very least) by the masses excluding haters and source-elitists. Even Yoshi have nothing bad to say about it and support it, right?

Just an advice, don’t let the feeling of “what could’ve been” get in the way of you enjoying and appreciating a piece of entertainment (as long as it’s not downright awful). I mean, if I were to think like you then I would’ve been very annoyed and angry all these years at all the live-action Batman movies (and TV series) who fail to live up to its full potential (which not even Nolan’s TDK can achieve that). But thankfully, I didn’t think like that and able to very much enjoy & appreciate almost every incarnation of LA Batman out there (the black-&-white movie with the Japanese villain being the exception due to the QUALITY and propaganda). Nothing is perfect in this world, and that also applies to adaptations.

[kuromitsu]

I think this is getting really off-topic so I'll keep it short...

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Though I know that Arslan TV cut and changed some fine details and complexities of the novel

Like the main character himself, for starters... They heavily underplay certain traits in Arslan and emphasize (or maybe even "invent") others, this and other changes influence a lot of things in a negative direction (for me, anyway), which, combined with the IMO cartoony and ill-fitting art and visual style, the Arakawa-esque style, the humor that I don't appreciate, the tone change, etc. in the end make me not enjoy this adaptation. This happens.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The pacing actually works for anime-only watchers (some of them even want the anime to hurry up and go back to Pars and not dwell in Sindhura any longer in the latest episodes).

If that's supposed to be reassuring it's not working. I like the Shindra arc, and if the anime can't make viewers understand why it's important then that just reinforces that this is not something I'd enjoy.

Anyway, I watched a whole bunch of episodes because I wanted to like it, but I didn't (aside of the superb voice cast), it just wasn't the story that I liked and wasn't a take on it that I could bring myself to like. If other people like it then good for them, personally I'm just very disappointed that it ended up like this. (I also don't think it means anything that Tanaka is not saying anything bad about it, for one why would he, and two he didn't say anything bad about say, LoGH's Golden Wings OVA either... I'm sure there are people who liked that, too, but general consensus is that it's the black sheep of the franchise for a good reason.)

And to tie this back to LoGH, basically what I was trying to get at with the comment that snowballed into this OT discussion, is that personally I'd like an adaptation that tries to keep true to the spirit of the novel. A shorter version of LoGH will have to face difficulties in having to streamline the story into ~25 episodes so they'll have to cut swathes of material, simplifying the story, that's unavoidable. But considering the hype they'll probably want to give to this one, some of the most obvious places where it can go wrong are 1. the creative staff being made up of big names just on basis of them being big names, without considering if they like the novels, if they're a good fit for doing the adaptation, and 2. deciding to to change characters or story elements according to what they think is popular nowadays or relatable for viewers. (I'd hate to see them mess with Reinhard's personality just to make him more "likeable".) I just hope that whoever will be on the staff will have an understanding of what this story is and will try to work with that in mind.

...That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they just adapted the manga. In a way that's the safest choice since it's already there, and they wouldn't even need to start a tie-in manga. I wouldn't be very happy about it, but it's a possibility. (For the record I like the manga for what it is, but it doesn't really measure up to what I want to see in a LoGH adaptation.)

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

If that's supposed to be reassuring it's not working. I like the Shindra arc, and if the anime can't make viewers understand why it's important then that just reinforces that this is not something I'd enjoy.

I said “some viewers”, not “all”. And them wanting Arslan to back to Pars doesn’t automatically mean they don’t like or not enjoying the the Shindura arc, they just can’t wait to get to the main conflict again. Jeez, stop seeing everything from the extreme angle . Many other watchers like the Shindura arc. The point is, the pacing doesn’t feel rushed.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

And to tie this back to LoGH, basically what I was trying to get at with the comment that snowballed into this OT discussion, is that personally I'd like an adaptation that tries to keep true to the spirit of the novel. A shorter version of LoGH will have to face difficulties in having to streamline the story into ~25 episodes so they'll have to cut swathes of material, simplifying the story, that's unavoidable. But considering the hype they'll probably want to give to this one, some of the most obvious places where it can go wrong are 1. the creative staff being made up of big names just on basis of them being big names, without considering if they like the novels, if they're a good fit for doing the adaptation, and 2. deciding to to change characters or story elements according to what they think is popular nowadays or relatable for viewers. (I'd hate to see them mess with Reinhard's personality just to make him more "likeable".) I just hope that whoever will be on the staff will have an understanding of what this story is and will try to work with that in mind.

I'd hate it too if that happen to the new LoGH. But since we already have the classic OVAs to hold onto, I feel particularly "safe" and too worried with whatever direction the new adaptation will take. The same case also happened when Madhouse decidde to adapt Hunter x Hunter in 2011 with a more bright and colorful approach closer to the manga which I don't like. But I feel "safe" coz we already have the dark n gritty Hunter x Hunter in 1999 that I love and can hold onto it while enjoying the new version.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I'd hate it too if that happen to the new LoGH. But since we already have the classic OVAs to hold onto, I feel particularly "safe" and too worried with whatever direction the new adaptation will take. The same case also happened when Madhouse decidde to adapt Hunter x Hunter in 2011 with a more bright and colorful approach closer to the manga which I don't like. But I feel "safe" coz we already have the dark n gritty Hunter x Hunter in 1999 that I love and can hold onto it while enjoying the new version.

Problem is that whatever the new LoGH will be it's going to be "THE" LoGH for those new to the franchise. Sure, those of us who have seen the OVAs will always have those (and the novel, in any case), but most new viewers are not going to sit through 110 episodes of old-timey character designs and animation and slow burning story, and even if they read the novels they're going to carry the image of the anime they saw. Not to mention most people will go into it with very high expectations.

And in any case I really want this to succeed at being a good adaptation that I enjoy. Partly because I love LoGH, and partly because I'd much rather have fun enjoying watching and discussing the adaptation, than being disappointed in it and avoiding discussions of it.

[RDNexus]

I did sit through the whole 110 episodes at the recommendation of a friend of mine because he claimed it being a great way for me to grow as a writer.

I admit I'm not one for war and/or politics genres, the old-style really made me wish for it to be more recent and the story really seemed quite slow-paced at times despite many sudden transitions between scenes.

While it really seemed to me that it had a great writing, apparently carefully planned characters, lots of social, political and military intrigue and intricate mind games, at the end of the day I didn't manage to learn much from it, not counting that going through 110 episodes sure was exhausting to me...

Since I haven't read the original Novels or any Manga adaptions of either this one, I have no problems with whatever may come in 2017.
In Arslan's case, I haven't read or seen anything before as well, and I've been enjoying this version so far

[Gundamx]

So it's not remake like Dragon Ball Kai but full remake like Full Metal Alchemist brotherhood, right?

[MisaoFan]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

So it's not remake like Dragon Ball Kai but full remake like Full Metal Alchemist brotherhood, right?

Obviously yes.

[IceHism]

My only worry about this remake is that it is basically competing with an almost flawless work. I hope production IG give their best shot at this because anything less than their best will be a did

[Botan_TM]

Originally Posted by xrick

While it really seemed to me that it had a great writing, apparently carefully planned characters, lots of social, political and military intrigue and intricate mind games, at the end of the day I didn't manage to learn much from it, not counting that going through 110 episodes sure was exhausting to me...

I started watching it something like 3 years ago. After a month (I don't really remember) I watched a final episode and I was sad that this is end. And this anime kicked out Code Geass from my TOP list.
From this day, every time I hear that somebody say something against old anime I want to rage xd.

Anyway, once I met videos on youtube about making good anime (and story), Legend of the Galactic Heroes was used as a reference.
Great vs Generic Anime - The Basics
Engaging vs Enjoyable - Web of Oppositions

[Ithekro]

If they can manage it with Space Battleship Yamato, they can manage it with the Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

[RDNexus]

Well, Botan, I'm sorry if you've felt somehow insulted by my opinion of the experience, I couldn't fake it to your liking, right?

And yes, I've seen those videos as well... What can I say? Those times are long gone and a light of hope is too far in sight...

[Ithekro]

Which also means the return of the space opera as a show type.

Space Battleship Yamato. Legend of the Galactic Heroes....Star Wars.

[Botan_TM]

Originally Posted by xrick

Well, Botan, I'm sorry if you've felt somehow insulted by my opinion of the experience, I couldn't fake it to your liking, right?

Nope, I haven't at all. If war and politic isn't your cup of tea, it's fully understandable.
I was just sharing my experience, main point directed to you were those videos, I was thinking those may be helpful.

By the way

[kuromitsu]

Noo, I could never hate Oberstein. I tried and tried but to no avail...

But still, another risk of this reboot is that Oberstein will ruin yet another seiyuu for me. Much like how he also ruined Shiozawa Kaneto (from that point on every role I heard him in reminded me of Oberstein, which was especially bad in case of Narsas...).

[AntonKutovoi]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Noo, I could never hate Oberstein. I tried and tried but to no avail...

But still, another risk of this reboot is that Oberstein will ruin yet another seiyuu for me. Much like how he also ruined Shiozawa Kaneto (from that point on every role I heard him in reminded me of Oberstein, which was especially bad in case of Narsas...).

Yeah, I kinda had this problem as well. It's rare for me to have a seiyuu to be ruined by the great performance, but that definetely was one these cases (other examples include Takehito Koyasu as JoJo's Dio, Mayumi Tanaka as One Piece's Luffy and Daisuke Sakaguchi as Gintama's Shinpachi).
As for whom to get casted as Oberstein - I'd say Hiroki Takahashi. I've heard him voicing Oberstein's expy (although a little more creepier) once and he was great in it.

[kuromitsu]

It also didn't help with stuff like Ai no kusabi...

Originally Posted by AntonKutovoi

As for whom to get casted as Oberstein - I'd say Hiroki Takahashi. I've heard him voicing Oberstein's expy (although a little more creepier) once and he was great in it.

That would work, although I personally vote for Kiuchi Hidenobu. Nobody can imitate Shiozawa, of course, nor should they try, but I think someone like Kiuchi could do Obe justice.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Did you drop Arslan Senki anime that's airing now? It is good, and many people enjoy the fine story by Yoshi adapted into TV series. And nobody is complaining hard about Arakawa's artistic-choice except for haters and novel/OVA-elitists so far.

*Proud Novel/OAV-elitist

the difference between Arakawa's art style and the LN/OAV art style is like the difference between hamburger and steak. Once you had steak why would anyone go back to hamburger.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

*Proud Novel/OAV-elitist

the difference between Arakawa's art style and the LN/OAV art style is like the difference between hamburger and steak. Once you had steak why would anyone go back to hamburger.

That's a rather narrowminded way to put it. In some occasions, I'd rather have hamburgers than steak . Steak is not the be-all end-all of food after all.

Also, I'm an Arslan novel (not light novel) reader too (that's why I know the part about the "rising of a certain dark lord" that (fortunately, for now) the anime doesn't cover). But I can still appreciate and *gasp* enjoy Arakawa's design, not bashing it or treat it as trash like some elitists do.