Fate/Apocrypha - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I assumed the possession made him inherit all of Siegfried's skills. He was doing well against Mordred, and he knows how to activate his noble phantasm.

By the way, they said possession only last a few seconds with normal humans, so what about Jeanne and Laetitia? Ruler hax removes all limitations?

You'd think that, given the type of possession it is (he takes on Seigfrieds body to fight) but he has only the basics of combat in him. But combine that with the raw power of Seigfrieds body and the Armor of Fafnir and he's still pretty dangerous.

Which is the reason Mordred survives since Seigfried is normally out of her paygrade.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Wow, the previous pages are almost filled with AstolfoxSieg shipping comments .

Anyway....wait, Fran has huge cables inside her bodehh? Dafuq? So Nasu's version of Frankenstein is some kind of a cyborg?!
LOL the sequence of her sacrifice really reminds me of Android 16 trying to take out Cell in DBZ Tough luck. Better luck next time.

And is this iteration of Mordred the one who screwed Guinevere or the one who beat the crap outta her when Arthur left his/her Kingdom for a mission? Judging by Mordy's attitude in this anime, I assume it's the latter (either way, poor Guinevere ), or maybe both events did not happen at all in this Nasuverse.

[PentingWolf]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

thanks to Fran's NP that defilibrated Sieg by accident.

Originally Posted by Xero8420

Did you know about Frankenstein was created by the lightning that create life? Blasted Tree also function like that. While it has the lightning of destructive power, it also got the lightning that create life which jolted into Sieg's heart like a defibrilator. "Oh, that's an asspull plot armor!" my ass.

Well, that sort of thing. I'd advise you guys wait, there is an event at volume 5 that explains this. Anyway, let's not make any hasty decisions, shall we?

You also can't forget the most events happening with Sieg are there mostly motivated by the Counter Force. His story is a lot like Jeanne d'Arc's story in real life.

Jeanne is a mere farmer girl ended a bloody hundred year war in merely 2 years.
Jeanne literally became a heroic spirit by being aided/buffed by the Counter force in live.
Sieg is a no name homunculus who developed free will, met a Heroic spirit who helped him, got a heart from a Heroic Spirit, met a Saint who promised to protect him, got revived by a heroic spirit, turned into a heroic spirit, became a hero, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler and spoiler.

In short, Sieg is the true Jeanne d'Arc of the series.

Originally Posted by XFire

And my original point was that Astolfo acts like that with everyone. He's like a giant overly affectionate puppy to people he's never met before. Seig is someone he saved and was saved by, so he's even more affectionate in that case. But in the novel, that was always because Astolfo was Astolfo.

I still have my doubts about that, In the LN looked like something deeper than Astolfo being a genki puppy.

Originally Posted by XFire

The anime altered things to focus his attention more or less solely on Seig, and Seig is now blushing all over the place in response as opposed to the more bewildered reaction he has in the novel.

I noticed that, too, but I still miss the physical contact present in the LN.
They've cut the romcom scenes between Sieg and Jeanne in the grandpa's house too.

Originally Posted by Kakurin

And from what I see Mordred has full control over the sword fight. Sieg can't measure up to her in that department. Now it remains to be seen what he can do with Balmung.

The final result will depend on the special properties of the weapons and the distance from which they attacked.
Sieg with Siegfried's power was overwhelming Mordred and he was not at full power since he doesn't have any prior experience fighting or in complete control of his powers. Heroic Spirit Siegfried would've destroyed her, showing his declaration in one of the earliest chapters when Vlad asks him if he could win against her and him nodding be confirmed (that's for those that were still in doubt of Siegfried > Mordred).
Technically this power level discussions in fate doesn't make sense, but in Apo she is more or less like this: Karna, Achilles, Sieg is pretty much holy trinity there, with karna at the top. Achilles to possibly being Herc level but that is again debatable. Still he should be second with Sieg close third, below comes 4. Vlad (Territory Boost), 5. Siegfried, 6.Chiron, followed by 7. Spartacus, 8. Semiramis (HGoB), 9. Mordred, then comes 10. Atalanta, 11. Astolfo, below comes 12. Shirou Kotomine, 13. Jeanne and finally 14. Fran, 15. Avicebron,16. Jack, 17. Sheakspear.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by PentingWolf

I still have my doubts about that, In the LN looked like something deeper than Astolfo being a genki puppy.


I noticed that, too, but I still miss the physical contact present in the LN.
They've cut the romcom scenes between Sieg and Jeanne in the grandpa's house too.

They cut a lot of things

But the biggest thing in the anime is mostly how Seig reacts to it. In the LN he cares for Astolfo as a friend, but the anime made it seem like he saw him the same way he did Jeanne.

Astolfo acts like a puppy...to people he's never met. Seig is his friend, someone he saved, and someone who saved him. He's definitely "special".

That said, Astolfo just doesn't really do "romantic" interest. He doesn't care about gender and would've been fine with being Seig's partner. But he personally wouldn't have been the one to initiate it, and wouldn't have seen it as a change in their relationship even if Seig did, because to him its not that important.

There's no border between "like" and "love" for him, just levels of intensity

Originally Posted by PentingWolf

The final result will depend on the special properties of the weapons and the distance from which they attacked.

Sieg with Siegfried's power was overwhelming Mordred and he was not at full power since he doesn't have any prior experience fighting or in complete control of his powers. Heroic Spirit Siegfried would've destroyed her, showing his declaration in one of the earliest chapters when Vlad asks him if he could win against her and him nodding be confirmed (that's for those that were still in doubt of Siegfried > Mordred).

Technically this power level discussions in fate doesn't make sense, but in Apo she is more or less like this: Karna, Achilles, Sieg is pretty much holy trinity there, with karna at the top. Achilles to possibly being Herc level but that is again debatable. Still he should be second with Sieg close third, below comes 4. Vlad (Territory Boost), 5. Siegfried, 6.Chiron, followed by 7. Spartacus, 8. Semiramis (HGoB), 9. Mordred, then comes 10. Atalanta, 11. Astolfo, below comes 12. Shirou Kotomine, 13. Jeanne and finally 14. Fran, 15. Avicebron,16. Jack, 17. Sheakspear.

Hmmmm.

Karna is on top. Period. By a lot. He's equivalent in power to Gilgamesh. He as of yet hasn't even used a NP, which (because they'll never tell you in the anime) is rated as Anti-country and exceeds vanilla Excalibur in power.

Achilles is tentatively second and the only threat to Karna. He's invincible to anyone not of divine origin or if they hit his heel, and his chariot is Bellephron times a thousand (not literally).

Vlad is third and within Apocrypha can fight Karna on even ground provided Karna doesn't bust out his NP. He'd be above Achilles but compatibility makes this bad for Vlad.

Seig is somewhere in the mix, but all three have ways to defeat him. He can't hurt Achilles, Vlad can stake you from the inside (bypassing dragonskin), and Karna can just nuke him. He's a tier above the others, though, and in a one-on-one could arguably take Vlad or Achilles maybe 4 of 10.

Seramiris is in a weird in between area because as long as she's in the HGoB she can spam EX-Rank magic but outside of it literally every other servant can murder her.

The others are a huge mixed bag who all have compatibility and skills to take into account for them, but generally Chiron and Mordred should be around the top of the bunch.


One last thing, however. Jeanne is both in the top tier with the first four......and above them.

She has the Servant equivalent of super strength as a Ruler. Remember the very first scene where she was thwacking around the giant monster? That thing had EX-rank strength, and she still overpowered it. Her ME can block Seramiris' magic, her default NP is "lolcanthurtme" and her other one can take out the entire war and everyone in it.

She doesn't need any of that, though, because she has Command Seals. She can order Servants to kill themselves at will. She doesn't because that isn't her job, but Karna had a reason for trying to take her out so fast.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Kanon

RIP Fran. Too bad her sacrifice was in vain.

I'm a bit worried about Mordred, her master used two command spells already and she's up against Siegfried. It looks like she's completely recovered though, so her chances would be good if she wasn't up against the main character. She's obviously not going to die, but she might get her ass whooped and be spared by Sieg, which would make her very very angry. I already wasn't too fond of the callous way she acted in this episode, so I don't want her to get worse. I like the contrast with her father though. Mordred thinks very highly of herself and has a tendency to get quickly pissed off when things don't go her way on the battlefield. The opposite of the humble and cool-headed Artoria.

Not in vain. Remember the second command seal boosted her for the duration of her fight against Sieg.

Originally Posted by Kanon

I assumed the possession made him inherit all of Siegfried's skills. He was doing well against Mordred, and he knows how to activate his noble phantasm.

By the way, they said possession only last a few seconds with normal humans, so what about Jeanne and Laetitia? Ruler hax removes all limitations?

Sieg got EVERYTHING. Skills, memories, combat experience, the whole package.

Jeanne is a special case. Normally, she would've been summoned without a master, but due to spoilers she had to possess Laetitia. The grail ran a search for the most compatible host and Laetitia is pretty much a clone of Jeanne in every way except she never had to win a war and her tits are slightly bigger. This possession is made possible by the grail so there's no time limit or anything. Mana is taken out of calories and if you're worried about Laetitia then don't be. She consented to all this so her body's been insured by the world.

Originally Posted by Kakurin

Laetitia lent her existence to Jeanne, so it's not a mere possession.

And from what I see Mordred has full control over the sword fight. Sieg can't measure up to her in that department. Now it remains to be seen what he can do with Balmung.

Reminder that Mordred was boosted by a command seal. If she wasn't, it'd be much more even.

Originally Posted by XFire

They cut a lot of things

But the biggest thing in the anime is mostly how Seig reacts to it. In the LN he cares for Astolfo as a friend, but the anime made it seem like he saw him the same way he did Jeanne.

Astolfo acts like a puppy...to people he's never met. Seig is his friend, someone he saved, and someone who saved him. He's definitely "special".

That said, Astolfo just doesn't really do "romantic" interest. He doesn't care about gender and would've been fine with being Seig's partner. But he personally wouldn't have been the one to initiate it, and wouldn't have seen it as a change in their relationship even if Seig did, because to him its not that important.

There's no border between "like" and "love" for him, just levels of intensity



Hmmmm.

Karna is on top. Period. By a lot. He's equivalent in power to Gilgamesh. He as of yet hasn't even used a NP, which (because they'll never tell you in the anime) is rated as Anti-country and exceeds vanilla Excalibur in power.

Achilles is tentatively second and the only threat to Karna. He's invincible to anyone not of divine origin or if they hit his heel, and his chariot is Bellephron times a thousand (not literally).

Vlad is third and within Apocrypha can fight Karna on even ground provided Karna doesn't bust out his NP. He'd be above Achilles but compatibility makes this bad for Vlad.

Seig is somewhere in the mix, but all three have ways to defeat him. He can't hurt Achilles, Vlad can stake you from the inside (bypassing dragonskin), and Karna can just nuke him. He's a tier above the others, though, and in a one-on-one could arguably take Vlad or Achilles maybe 4 of 10.

Seramiris is in a weird in between area because as long as she's in the HGoB she can spam EX-Rank magic but outside of it literally every other servant can murder her.

The others are a huge mixed bag who all have compatibility and skills to take into account for them, but generally Chiron and Mordred should be around the top of the bunch.


One last thing, however. Jeanne is both in the top tier with the first four......and above them.

She has the Servant equivalent of super strength as a Ruler. Remember the very first scene where she was thwacking around the giant monster? That thing had EX-rank strength, and she still overpowered it. Her ME can block Seramiris' magic, her default NP is "lolcanthurtme" and her other one can take out the entire war and everyone in it.

She doesn't need any of that, though, because she has Command Seals. She can order Servants to kill themselves at will. She doesn't because that isn't her job, but Karna had a reason for trying to take her out so fast.

Karna's as strong as Gilgamesh? Really? I know Karna's NP, but I can't believe it.

Jeanne only has B rank strength, though.

Would Vlad's NP work against Achilles?

[Xero8420]

For anyone who's reading this, please be warned that I'm growing insecure of coming here again. I felt spooked when I saw my thoughts were literally "copy & paste" by a bunch of "copycat stalkers" in blogs like Random Curiosity & in other forums like MAL. It's kinda legitimately creepy to learn that a few guys are literally trailing me from my back.

Still, I have little issue with people lending my thoughts. I mean, I appreciate for your appreciation on my intellect, but I don't wanna see myself as an explicit guru. So whenever you wish to lend my thoughts, please make it much less obvious to my original thoughts.

Please, please? Thank you.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by bakato

Not in vain. Remember the second command seal boosted her for the duration of her fight against Sieg.



Sieg got EVERYTHING. Skills, memories, combat experience, the whole package.

Jeanne is a special case. Normally, she would've been summoned without a master, but due to spoilers she had to possess Laetitia. The grail ran a search for the most compatible host and Laetitia is pretty much a clone of Jeanne in every way except she never had to win a war and her tits are slightly bigger. This possession is made possible by the grail so there's no time limit or anything. Mana is taken out of calories and if you're worried about Laetitia then don't be. She consented to all this so her body's been insured by the world.



Reminder that Mordred was boosted by a command seal. If she wasn't, it'd be much more even.



Karna's as strong as Gilgamesh? Really? I know Karna's NP, but I can't believe it.

Jeanne only has B rank strength, though.

Would Vlad's NP work against Achilles?

Seig didn't get everything, at least not yet. He can't use the body at full power or Mordred wouldn't have survived long enough for them to laser sword each other.

As for Karna, Nasu called him "Gilgamesh-tier". He's still lose in a fight to full power Gil, but he might manage a mutual kill with his second NP.

And Jeanne has a weird Ruler thing. Her Servant container is inherently better than a normal Servants.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

For anyone who's reading this, please be warned that I'm growing insecure of coming here again. I felt spooked when I saw my thoughts were literally "copy & paste" by a bunch of "copycat stalkers" in blogs like Random Curiosity & in other forums like MAL. It's kinda legitimately creepy to learn that a few guys are literally trailing me from my back.

Still, I have little issue with people lending my thoughts. I mean, I appreciate for your appreciation on my intellect, but I don't wanna see myself as an explicit guru. So whenever you wish to lend my thoughts, please make it much less obvious to my original thoughts.

Please, please? Thank you.

Sorry for the double post but WTF?

Someone followed you here from another forum? That's....creepy.

Or did they steal stuff from here and act like they said it on other sites.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by XFire

Sorry for the double post but WTF?

Someone followed you here from another forum? That's....creepy.

Or did they steal stuff from here and act like they said it on other sites.

Not stealing, but rather duplicating my "intellectually sound" thought that they preceived regarding Mordred. And one guy posted the exactly the same thought as mine under my alias name in the blog. Go check the Random Curiosity blog & see what I mean.

I'm fine with people sharing my thoughts with others, but just don't make it too obvious like a carbon copy.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

For anyone who's reading this, please be warned that I'm growing insecure of coming here again. I felt spooked when I saw my thoughts were literally "copy & paste" by a bunch of "copycat stalkers" in blogs like Random Curiosity & in other forums like MAL.

After I read your comment, I went straight to RandomC and yes, I can see that. And look whatever else I found in the comment section of episode 10 review:

Originally Posted by mira-pyon

-Episode 8, what’s Mordred’s problem with a hero dying for what he believes in? Isn’t that what heroes do? Yet she mocks Siegfried for that?

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Also, what's Mordred's problem with a hero dying for what he believes in? Isn't that what heroes do? Yet she mocks Siegfried for that?

Yeah, someone named mira-pyon copied my line almost word-for-word and posted it there. Probably to rack up some Like Points or something.

I do know that some posters like zztop like to openly share information across various sites by using the same username so that people can identify him and that's fine. But guys like mira-pyon above who just copy-pasting lines from others that he deemed good is just eye-rolling and feels a bit pathetic .

[FlareKnight]

Well...sucks for Fran. Though it was kind of a given things would end like that eventually. Her noble phantasm was one that was basically a suicide option. Kind of poor luck of the draw in that case. Hard to really win a grail war with a NP like that. But at least she fought on bravely and gave her all. I was thinking her master was going a bit far in using so many command seals....but apparently he wasn't going to need them past this point....

Solid reaction by Mordred's master to boost her defense though. Might have been trouble if Rider had a chance to charge Mordred while Fran had her choke hold going. That might have actually worked better considering the properties of that lance.

Well best of luck to Sieg. He's putting in a good effort there . Forcing Mordred's master to use up another command seal just to hold the line. A pretty good fight there. It was pretty reckless to jump in there early on, but I can understand why he did so. And really without his efforts Rider would definitely be out of this war.

Also kind of funny how Rider's master is the one being cautious about using command seals. Everyone else in that particular fight is just spamming them left and right.

[Dengar]

Command seals are meant to be used. Not willy nilly of course, but holding on to them won't do anyone any good.

[Kanon]

Caules knew Fran had no chance of winning against Mordred under normal circumstances, so he had to use them or both Fran and Astolfo would have beaten the dust. There was no running away from Mordred. Better to lose one servant than two.

By the way, how high is Mordred's defense? Fran's regular attacks did nothing to her. I figure it must be quite high. Or maybe Fran is just that weak.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Caules knew Fran had no chance of winning against Mordred under normal circumstances, so he had to use them or both Fran and Astolfo would have beaten the dust. There was no running away from Mordred. Better to lose one servant than two.

By the way, how high is Mordred's defense? Fran's regular attacks did nothing to her. I figure it must be quite high. Or maybe Fran is just that weak.

Its more because Caules failed to realize that the enemy CAN use command seals too. To reinforce his Servant. This lack of foresight have cost him Fran. Not like he could really do anything in this desperate situation.

[blitz1/2]

Either Fran is nerfed, or Mordred is just THAT strong. Going by my first theory, becaiuse I don't see Arturia tanking that herself.

[XFire]

Neither, Anime snafu'd itself. Originally Mordred was pulled off the battlefield by Shishigou because it was gonna kill her.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by XFire

Neither, Anime snafu'd itself. Originally Mordred was pulled off the battlefield by Shishigou because it was gonna kill her.

She got pulled out in the novel? That's interesting. So, did the author change things in this episode coz he wanted something more "bombastic" for anime eye-candy? It's a visual medium after all.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

She got pulled out in the novel? That's interesting. So, did the author change things in this episode coz he wanted something more "bombastic" for anime eye-candy? It's a visual medium after all.

Possibly. Fate anime has always been about spectacle.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by XFire

Possibly. Fate anime has always been about spectacle.

Since Fran is already dead in this anime, I might as well ask this: is Fran also cyborg-ish in the novel?

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

After I read your comment, I went straight to RandomC and yes, I can see that. And look whatever else I found in the comment section of episode 10 review:
Yeah, someone named mira-pyon copied my line almost word-for-word and posted it there. Probably to rack up some Like Points or something.

I do know that some posters like zztop like to openly share information across various sites by using the same username so that people can identify him and that's fine. But guys like mira-pyon above who just copy-pasting lines from others that he deemed good is just eye-rolling and feels a bit pathetic .

Not just here to RandomC. Even the same happened to MAL forums too, copied & pasted from a guy in MAL inyo RandomC.