AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Community Today's Posts Search

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Macross

Notices

View Poll Results: Macross Delta - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 1 3.85%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 5 19.23%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 6 23.08%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 23.08%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 15.38%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 3.85%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 11.54%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2016-09-18, 23:20   Link #61
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
On Heinz ending up the way he did this episode Keith and Gramia share a responsibility on it. It wasn't just Roid.

They pretty much warped Heinz to commit genocide and slavery on a massive scale based on hate.

Now Keith is trying to set his brother to make his own decisions? Well murder is his decision and you had a part on that. Now he is dying because of it you fool.

Heinz will probably die full of regrets at the end of this.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 00:01   Link #62
Convoy
Knight of Infinity
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Island 1, Macross Frontier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
They titled the episode Star Singer and Mikumo didn't get even one line. What a farce.

Also, I don't know how they're planning to end this now, but it's gonna be super rushed, even more than I thought.
My thoughts exactly. *deep groan*
Convoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 00:03   Link #63
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
I know I shouldn't draw comparisons... however, it's no better off than Endless Waltz for Gundam Wing. I'll not spoil what all happens but the big battle for the OVA literally ends 5 minutes from it's beginning and the conclusion is not very good...
Yep, you shouldn’t draw that comparison coz you only make Delta’s (hypothetical) final grand battle feel more tacked on than Gundam Wing’s, and this comes from me who do not love Wing series. First thing first, Endless Waltz is not the genuine end for the Gundam Wing TV series. Wing TV series already have its own final epic battle and ending in its last episodes which preceded by long & proper build up. Endless Waltz is an additional story which audience are free to consider it a canon continuation of the TV series or not because the maker intentionally retcon things from the TV series to fit Endless Waltz’ plot (including the departure of the Gundam designs). As for the final battle in EW, let me go through a bit more details in the below spoiler:
Spoiler for Endless Waltz' final battle:
Wing (TV) & Endless Waltz did good with their final grand battles, and I can't see Delta does it as good as them like you suggested.
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 00:09   Link #64
HirouKeimou
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Yep, you shouldn’t draw that comparison coz you only make Delta’s (hypothetical) final grand battle feel more tacked on than Gundam Wing’s, and this comes from me who do not love Wing series.
First of all, I didn't spoil it because it's a different show entirely.

Second of all, I'm talking about runtime to resolve things. Considering Endless Waltz is an OVA which had approximately 30-45 minutes to resolve things (unless you're on the Director's Cut version), it resolved things very quickly and the ending itself genuinely feels off compared to the TV series (which ran for 40+ episodes, mind you). Also, it's on a different plot from the main series, which helps it stand out more...

So my point of the original post is how a rushed ending could come from a series regardless of length or build up. It's all about how it plays out.
HirouKeimou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 00:22   Link #65
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
First of all, I didn't spoil it because it's a different show entirely.

Second of all, I'm talking about runtime to resolve things. Considering Endless Waltz is an OVA which had approximately 30-45 minutes to resolve things (unless you're on the Director's Cut version), it resolved things very quickly and the ending itself genuinely feels off compared to the TV series (which ran for 40+ episodes, mind you). Also, it's on a different plot from the main series, which helps it stand out more...

So my point of the original post is how a rushed ending could come from a series regardless of length or build up. It's all about how it plays out.
The main conflicts of Gundam Wing TV is already resolved in the TV series itself. Endless Waltz only introduced Mariemaia’s campaign and Wu-Fei’s uncertainty for the new conflicts, and EW's ending solved those two new problems well enough. Of course people can (and will) ask for more, but the ending works.

EDIT:
And you’re wrong about the duration. The original Endless Waltz OVA has 75 minutes (3 x 25-minute episodes) and the movie version has 90 minutes.
__________________

Last edited by Obelisk ze Tormentor; 2016-09-19 at 00:49.
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 01:00   Link #66
Thess
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
Chaos could surely be outnumbered by Windermere. Plus, with Mikumo in their hands, Windermere overpowers Chaos. Unless Freyja is secretly a priestess for the Protoculture too, I believe it'll be obvious that Windermere is the one with the upper hand here.
I think Freyja, just like Heinz, might be a 'wind singer'. There was something, iirc, about wind singers being 'safety measures' to the star singer or something like that. I don't remember the wording, but sounds like they can either deactivate the ruins in case the star singer goes cruhzee or they can make their singing more or less effective (which would explain why Freyja's waves boosted Mikumo's). If you remember, the ruins first came back to life reacting to Freyja.

Takes this with a grain of salt because I don't have the interview right now to double check and the description was vague.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Now Keith is trying to set his brother to make his own decisions? Well murder is his decision and you had a part on that. Now he is dying because of it you fool.
Except that wasn't Heinz's decision. Maybe you'll get it when the subs are out, but he decided to stop the NUNS because the NUNS decided to indulge again in another show of genocide with their forbidden mass destruction weapons and he was showed the proof they were evil as the adults said, because they didn't learn from last time. They were going to drop dimension eaters in Ragna. Something our heroes wouldn't condone either considering Ragna is their home.

He had no idea what Mikumo's voice would provoke as seen by his reaction, but his decision wasn't for the bombs to detonate, but to stop them from dropping another bomb like they did in Windermere. Unlike the evil NUNS guy (RIP), the kid isn't a sociopath, he's just a kid trying to do the best in his horrible circumstances. And yes, it was Roid's fault because he seemly knew what was going to happen, look at his reaction vs the other Windermerians who were shocked or upset.

NUNS vs Windermere stuff is over anyway, Windermere won. Now to move on Chaos and Windermere which will no doubt end with Chaos' victory.
__________________

"Who would understand you after I die? Who else would march forward by your side?"

Last edited by Thess; 2016-09-19 at 01:15.
Thess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 01:28   Link #67
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post

He had no idea what Mikumo's voice would provoke as seen by his reaction, but his decision wasn't for the bombs to detonate,
He was the one that gave the order he knew what would happen. You can't wash the blood off his hands as he is pretty much aware of it now.

Heinz isn't innocent as you'd like to defend him.

He made a decision however wrong it is and stuck with it.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 01:30   Link #68
Mistyclear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
If you're talking about episode 8 the ruins became active via all Walkure and not just Freyja-- she simply activated it to a higher level, but no it wasn't just her that revived the ruins on Voldor.

Now that I think about it she was the only Walkure not singing when the ruins first started to respond, I believe it was Ikenai Borderline.
Mistyclear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 01:38   Link #69
HirouKeimou
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
He was the one that gave the order he knew what would happen. You can't wash the blood off his hands as he is pretty much aware of it now.
No, I agree with Thess.

The only person in the room who shows any real emotion at all for the NUNS bombing themselves is Heinz; who genuinely looks horrified, as if he didn't believe they'd kill themselves. Doesn't help that voices are crying alongside the stars (glints of light) which adds to this scene on so many levels.

And Keith is off in the corner (in retrospect) watching this unfold and is feeling nothing for it.

Meanwhile, Roid is overly happy about this situation...
HirouKeimou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 01:45   Link #70
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
about wind singers being 'safety measures' to the star singer or something like that.
That wouldn't make sense though. The wind singers are descendants of the Star Singer. This means they never shared the same time frame.

That been said, I don't think making sense is a priority for the writers at this point, so I guess anything can happen.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 01:49   Link #71
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
No, I agree with Thess.

The only person in the room who shows any real emotion at all for the NUNS bombing themselves is Heinz; who genuinely looks horrified, as if he didn't believe they'd kill themselves. Doesn't help that voices are crying alongside the stars (glints of light) which adds to this scene on so many levels.

And Keith is off in the corner (in retrospect) watching this unfold and is feeling nothing for it.

Meanwhile, Roid is overly happy about this situation...
All the other instances he sang and gave orders he didn't experience the suffering of his victims. Heck he didn't even watch Freyja, Hayate and Mirage's execution.

This is the first time he felt people's suffering rather than an abstract concept like Keith showing the hole or Freyja's memory of her house burning.

He knew this was going to happen but wasn't ready to feel it.

At the end of this Heinz will likely die full of regrets at the choices he took.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 02:04   Link #72
HirouKeimou
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
All the other instances he sang and gave orders he didn't experience the suffering of his victims. Heck he didn't even watch Freyja, Hayate and Mirage's execution.

This is the first time he felt people's suffering rather than an abstract concept like Keith showing the hole or Freyja's memory of her house burning.
I don't know; I believe you're overlooking a few details mentioned in episode 24 which illustrate how Heinz is connected to our main singers.

In episode 24, Heinz addresses how he felt Mikumo and Freyja suffering from connecting to the ruins and himself and remembering his show of the scar on his planet in episode 10 (of which all three either fainted or were unable to continue on). The other thing he addresses is the color of their songs (Freyja is the sun, Mikumo is the stars) and how each one feels from his runes (Freyja is warm, Mikumo is scary).

The fact is: Heinz does feel things progressively changing around him; however, he's been told it's normal or all necessary in the grand scheme of things. What Heinz has (and I hesitated to call it this) is Stockholm Syndrome. His whole life has literally been "do this because it's necessary" and goes along because while he acknowledges it's not right (especially in this episode's finale), it's all he knows how to do. His parents or guardians or etc. never allowed him to grow as an individual.

Children in his situation grow up like this; and it's sad because I have a friend in real life who has this issue...
HirouKeimou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 02:15   Link #73
Thess
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
He was the one that gave the order he knew what would happen. You can't wash the blood off his hands as he is pretty much aware of it now.


Uh no he wasn't aware of this could happen? Because, hey, you've seemly not paying attention to his characterization and why he accepted to listen to Roid and sing in the first place: it was to avoid or lessen the number of victims in war.

Anyway, I feel the end of those NUNS forces was pretty much poetic justice. I'm sure I'll feel the same way when Roid's experiment backfires next episode. It felt incredibly satisfying to see that bastard die by his own mass destruction weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
And Keith is off in the corner (in retrospect) watching this unfold and is feeling nothing for it.

Meanwhile, Roid is overly happy about this situation...
Keith looks sad. In contrast to Roid's glee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
That been said, I don't think making sense is a priority for the writers at this point, so I guess anything can happen.
Yup, Reina could become the Solar Singer and fix everything if the writers want.
__________________

"Who would understand you after I die? Who else would march forward by your side?"
Thess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 06:18   Link #74
Tempester
Japanese Culture Fan
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 33
I feel like this episode should have happened a week or two ago. If we're going to have a peaceful and somewhat romantic moment between Hayate and Freyja before the final fight, can't we at least have a proper confession along with it? Geez.

This pretty much guarantees that the last episode will be overly rushed. We'll probably have Hayate and Freyja say they love each other in the very last 30 seconds and then cut to black, because reasons.
Tempester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 07:45   Link #75
charles883
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Man, I think Berger true master is Lady M and Possibly Lady M are Minmay or Misa
charles883 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 08:05   Link #76
Stark700
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Somewhere on Earth
Makina survives!

Oh poor Mikumo, I really wonder who plans to save her now. I honestly think the whole plan with the brainwashing is going a bit far. She's literally being treated like a tool of war. Freyja and Hayate got some more decent screen time although I feel like they could of done that before this episode.

One more left...wonder who will live or survive?
__________________
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/Kze54WA.png border=0 alt= />
Stark700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 08:59   Link #77
Triple_R
Senior Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 42
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
I thought this was a very nice and pleasant episode, at least if you evaluate it on its own.

The protagonist side had some good warmth and charm to it, and hit a lot of nice notes. Arad and Kaname's moment was nice. Reina holding Makina's hand was nice. It was all very nice. I really liked how all the reveals centering around Hayate's dad was handled. That was simply sublime, in my opinion. Beautiful. Freyja getting the music player from Hayate's father is just the sweetest cheery on top, really.

I might have liked a bit more in the HayaFrey moment, but it was nonetheless a very pleasing and charming scene. And the scene did feel like it suited the characters perfectly. It's pretty clear that Hayate loves Freyja, but it's just not his nature to make a big show of it (big snow maybe, but not big show ). Hayate drops some hints, particularly in certain compliments he makes of her ("the way you laugh makes me feel relieved"). It's probably going to be up to Freyja to have a clear-cut romance happen, if it does happen. It's hers, if she decides to make a formal confession, as I now have no doubt Hayate would reciprocate. But it's hard to imagine Hayate taking the lead and confessing to her. It's like he's just putting himself out there, and deciding to be in this soothing relaxed relationship with Freyja that's on the very borderline of friendship/romance, and leaving it up to her to determine what the relationship will be.

I think Freyja also loves Hayate, but I sense some fear and concern with her. She was initially trying to nicely shoo Hayate away. I think that Freyja fears that she's now dying, and she doesn't want to risk burdening Hayate with that, so she was initially trying to create some distance between them.

I think the show has made it clear that while Hayate deeply respects and likes Mirage, and considers her a dear friend and comrade, it is Freyja that he loves the most. And even if that's not the case, Mirage herself told Hayate to go to Freyja, and at a meta-level, that's pretty suggestive, in my view.

So I'd be truly shocked at a HayaMira ending. Should Freyja survive, the most likely outcome is one that strongly leans towards HayaFrey, but stops just short of total confirmation. Again, I just can't see Hayate confessing, and Freyja is going to be caught up with Walkure soon. A HayaFrey confirmation is possible, but I'd say the likelihood of it is 20% at most.


Now, as for Raging Roid Rangers vs. VillaiNUNs... Neither side comes off particularly good. At the same time, I can understand the sheer desperation that both sides likely feel. Both sides have good reason to truly fear the other and want the other obliterated. NUNs are willing to use those nasty WMDs, but given what Windermere has done in this show, it's at least somewhat understandable, in my view. On the flip-side, it's that precise NUNs willingness that adds some justification to Windermere feeling threatened by NUNs, to the point of Windermere being gripped in warmongering paranoia. It's all one nasty spiral of escalation, that probably reflects the reality of war, and how it can become a terrible tornado-like trap.

I think Heinz was genuinely surprised by what happened to that NUNs fleet. I'm with Thess on that. I don't know what exactly is going through Heinz's head. Perhaps the kid just feels totally overwhelmed, and is doing his best to act/sound like a leader while putting minimal thought into what his actions actually mean. That doesn't excuse him completely, but it makes him at least somewhat pitiable. He's well and truly in over his head.

Roid knows what's going on, and because of that, I have very mixed feelings over how this episode presented him. It did seem to be trying to make Roid seem sympathetic... if not glorious in his own twisted way. Keith continues to feel like a hardened extremist, with Roid being a dangerous "head in the clouds" extremist.

Fears of the finale being rushed are somewhat justified, though given the numbers of players involved, it might just be a slightly amped-up version of what Episode 13 gave us. Heck, we're even going back to Ragna it seems. This is to say that the action side of things might not be particularly complicated or chaotic. Granted, it is a little hard for me to see how chaos wins. On the pilot side, they seem badly outmatched to me, unless an Aerial Knight or two actually turns completely against Roid.

I can also understand Mikumo's biggest fans being disappointed in this episode, as she was pretty much reduced to a plot device here. I hope she gets greater presence in the finale.

However, my favorite character in this show is Freyja, and after that, there's many protagonists I like all about the same. So for me, this was an excellent episode. 9/10.
__________________

Last edited by Triple_R; 2016-09-19 at 09:33.
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 09:18   Link #78
Benigmatica
Deadpan Rambler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Send a message via Yahoo to Benigmatica
So it seems that Berger Stone weighs in that Lady M's identity is Lynn Minmay, huh? Meanwhile, I have a feeling that Freyja Wion will die after not telling Hayate Immelman that she met his father, as well as not saying about her declining health.

Meanwhile, glad that the NUNS take action instead of doing nothing and wash their hands after activating a dimensional bomb in Ragna. Then again, said dimensional bombs are triggered by themselves now that Mikumo Guynemer was forced to sing and control the NUNS. Seriously, both Lord Roid Brehm and King Heinz Nerich Windermere are remorseful for making this massacre!

Anyways, I'm worried about the finale next week...
Benigmatica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 09:24   Link #79
Triple_R
Senior Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 42
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benigmatica View Post
Meanwhile, I have a feeling that Freyja Wion will die after not telling Hayate Immelman that she met his father, as well as not saying about her declining health.
Those are death flags. On the other hand, Hayate gave the big "I'm going to protect you" line, and given the overall tone of this show, I have my doubts it'll let Hayate fail to achieve his goal there.

Whether Freyja lives or dies might be the biggest question going into the final. I could see it going either way.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-09-19, 09:49   Link #80
Benigmatica
Deadpan Rambler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Send a message via Yahoo to Benigmatica
@Triple_R
True, and it'll be heart-breaking for Hayate if Freyja dies. Their times they spent together will all go down the drain.

Meanwhile, I'm concerned on whether Lady M will make an appearance or not. But because of Kawamori-sensei, I doubt that Lady M or Lynn Minmay will appear in the end. After all, he'll take his secrets to his grave!
Benigmatica is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.