Love Live! Sunshine - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by playmaker2k

I still believe Ria (the twintails) is going to be a Little Demon at the end of the series.

You think she's going to fall for Yohane? That would be funny!

[playmaker2k]

I'm calling it right now. Ria will be a Little Demon.

The Gothic style. She's more than likely a 1st year since she jumped over them. The Twin-tail (bitter/mean Nico expy) thing she has going on. She even told Aqours not to underestimate LL just like Nico did when it came to school idols. The poop hat, remember? lol

Oh yeah, I picked up on something on a 2nd re-watch. They didn't show the Top 2 spots on the list.
There's a good chance we'll be introduced to them. Sooner than later.
This really is turning into a sports anime. So hype.

[pagan poor]

Best episode so far. Looks like doing your best and getting curb stomped is better than choking on the big stage. Rest of the series will be the redemption tour for the members of Aqours.

[Ernietheracefan]

Guys, do you agree if Honoka is Kamina and Chika is Simon...?

[judasmartel]

One explanation to the zero votes Aqours got is that "they're just a no-name group of country bumpkins," nobody (at least in Tokyo) knows them yet. Chill out, people. I'm sure they will come back from 0 votes to become number 1 in LL next season.

But man, sports anime with school idols next season! The hype is real.

Originally Posted by Ernietheracefan

Guys, do you agree if Honoka is Kamina and Chika is Simon...?

Except that Honoka or any Muse members for that matter are yet to appear this season. But if Honoka does appear to Chika...

Nice Gurren Lagann reference.

Originally Posted by novalysis

That, or they need to stop their rookie group formula, and subvert SS inevitable successor with a School Idol group that's mid tier with pre-established members, where the injection of new members and new leadership leads the club out of the B level doldrums of School Idoling.

My concern with that setup is that it rather lends to competition so stiff the group as a whole might lose its chemistry for its efforts to stay competitive. Would you rather have a solid member you can't get along than a not-so-stellar member you can get along so easily?

Competition for slots in the group (i.e. perform well or you lose your right to be in the group) might take the LL franchise to the Dark Side if the writers are not careful. Nothing's wrong with making the SS successors a mid-tier group which is only good leaders and solid members away from dominating LL, just make sure the competition for slots in the group will not destroy whatever chemistry the group will have.

The rookie group formula is not broken. In fact, I like how I think Aqours will progress. They just need more fans from Tokyo and solid leadership which the third years could provide well to come back to LL with a vengeance.

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

One explanation to the zero votes Aqours got is that "they're just a no-name group of country bumpkins," nobody (at least in Tokyo) knows them yet. Chill out, people. I'm sure they will come back from 0 votes to become number 1 in LL next season.

But man, sports anime with school idols next season! The hype is real.

Spoiler for speculationz and quantum theory:

The OP says it all.

[Nachtwandler]

You may call me a blasphemer but rival groups in LL always had a better songs than the main girls. This one is no exception.

And I'm glad they did not pull the drama for to long this season.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

You may call me a blasphemer but rival groups in LL always had a better songs than the main girls. This one is no exception.

And I'm glad they did not pull the drama for to long this season.

Every single time.

The rivals are always stronger than the heroes, ofc to keep the underdog theme.

I'm so hyped for the next LLSS now. Sports anime with school idols.

[novalysis]

Just a bit of devils advocating here: why doesn't ARISE represent proper Sports anime rivals, while Saint Snow does? I do agree with your thesis - it seems the Sports genre inherent in Love Live's premise is going to be more heavily emphasized as opposed to the original.

[Kanon]

I hated Saint Snow when they were introduced last week, but their performance in this episode won me over. They can back up their smugness. Their song is my favorite in the entire Love Live series, but that most likely has more to do with the fact it appeals to my taste more than the regular songs (pop-rock rather than plain j-pop) than the song being genuinely better than everything else. Anyway, I really loved it and it was nice to see something different for once. They get bonus points for not CG dancing too.

I was shocked Aqours got 0 votes, but this serves as a good reality check and a wake-up for Chika who really needed it. She really was just playing around until now, and therefore had no business participating in competitions.

[Benigmatica]

@Kanon
Well, I won't blame the judges and the audience for not giving Aqours any points as they're considered as µ's wannabes in-universe.

However, I believe that Aqours will become great if they learn their mistakes!

[Triple_R]

Aqours' lack of success isn't that hard to understand.

One thing to remember here - idol performances aren't just about the singing or the song. It's also about the costumes, and the dance choreography, and maybe other elements as well. This is probably part of the reason why they showed Saint Snow doing a back-flip. That's a somewhat useful talent for a school idol to have, as it can impact dance quality.

Aqours' Episode 6 live performance had a lovely song, but like a couple of us mentioned, the costumes are a little plain and the dancing was almost lethargic-seeming.

I now strongly suspect that these were weaknesses intentionally incorporated into Aqours' performance (by the Director/writers/animators) in order to make their lack of success believable and understandable.

It's important to divorce personal taste/satisfaction from technical quality here - It might help to use figure-skating as an analogy. I don't necessarily need to see a bunch of triple-axels in order to really enjoy a figure skating program. But when all the elite figure skaters do them multiple times in one performance, then a particular competitor not doing them at all means she has no chance whatsoever against other elite/serious competitors. And when you watch 30 different serious competing groups back-to-back, then just basic appeal or nice-sounding doesn't cut it any more. There's a certain threshold of technical quality that has to be reached or you'll simply stand out as weaker than the rest.

A truly great idol live performance has it all - Excellent song, excellent costumes, excellent dance choreography, and ideally something about it that's particularly memorable or "stand out" (a certain artistry when it comes to how you use lights, say). Aqours is fine on the singing front, but they have loads of room for improvement in dancing and costuming. And Aqours is very good for a group just doing this for fun, and Aqours is good enough if they just want to put on pleasing performances for their local community. But at a national competitive level, there are things they need to work on.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Aqours' lack of success isn't that hard to understand.


Aqours' Episode 6 live performance had a lovely song, but like a couple of us mentioned, the costumes are a little plain and the dancing was almost lethargic-seeming.

I think you are one of the first persons to make the connection between the seeming mediocrity and sedateness of Episode's 6 performance (nice touches with the lanterns compensating), and Aqours total failure in the Tokyo exposure event. I have a suspicion that it's not just the weakness of episode 6's dance that is deliberately meant to set up 8. I think alot of the seemingly annoying parts of the show, such as the constant Muse referencing by Chika and company, is foreshadowing of how such Muse worship is a recipe for failure.

It's almost a meta-commentary by Saint Snow to Aqours here, a self-critique of the Muse referencing that Sunshine indulged in. Of course, if Muse referencing still continues at the same rate at Episode 9 and beyond.... I would like to think that Sunshine is now past the point where parallels to Muse and the original series can be drawn, and the show has entered Terra Incognita.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I think you are one of the first persons to make the connection between the seeming mediocrity and sedateness of Episode's 6 performance (nice touches with the lanterns compensating), and Aqours total failure in the Tokyo exposure event. I have a suspicion that it's not just the weakness of episode 6's dance that is deliberately meant to set up 8. I think alot of the seemingly annoying parts of the show, such as the constant Muse referencing by Chika and company, is foreshadowing of how such Muse worship is a recipe for failure.

It's almost a meta-commentary by Saint Snow to Aqours here, a self-critique of the Muse referencing that Sunshine indulged in. Of course, if Muse referencing still continues at the same rate at Episode 9 and beyond.... I would like to think that Sunshine is now past the point where parallels to Muse and the original series can be drawn, and the show has entered Terra Incognita.

That's actually an idea I've been musing* over after watching the episode. Maybe, just maybe, all the muse references have been, as you pointed out, a way to setup a particular plot point of Aquors having to overcome their fixation with the original girls and become their own thing. I won't claim the show made particular fantastic work passing that message but we have to admit it was effective even if it was as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face.

But who am I kidding, Love Live has never been a franchise know for subtlety and it's only been getting worse the further it goes so its no surprise how almost overbearing the Muse referencing has been.

Now if the show really tones down the muse references from here on out then we can put down this hypothesis as a fully supported theory. I have a feeling that, like the low key PV a couple of episodes back, all this is planned. I remember debating this very same point when it came to the composition of Muse vs A-Rise in the original show and how the former songs always sounded more raw and natural than the highly produced and absolutely professional sounding songs that the latter group performed.

Love Live is a very meticulously developed multimedia franchise that leaves hardly any detail to chance, let us not forget that. In a couple of days time we all may very well be praising this show as the second third fourth coming

*100% intentional there

[pagan poor]

A-Rise reminded me of a K-pop group. Saint Snow reminds me of Babymetal (ironically the members of Babymetal and the VA for Ria were in idol group Sakura Gakuin.)

[Ernietheracefan]

Originally Posted by Dextro

That's actually an idea I've been musing* over after watching the episode.

*100% intentional there

I'm amused..

I hate to see Ruby crying, because it's heartbreaking.

PS: when the sun was came out, I was expecting Million Clouds to be played instead of the ED..

[areyoubaka]

​What really irked me this week was that it was Riko who comforted Chika, not You. You's been Chika's best friend since childhood, so therefore it would've made much more sense (imo) for her to comfort Chika at her lowest, rather than someone they've known for a month or two at most. While on the topic of Riko, it'd be great if the writers gave her more interactions with the rest of the group - her scene backstage with You last week was great for this reason.

[blakstealth]

Can we all just take one moment....just one moment.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

Can we all just take one moment....just one moment

Oh my kokoro...

By the way I too have also believed Aqours was going to get a reality check eventually and even Saint Snow's remarks to tell them to stop trying to be like Muse is reinforcement in its own way. This episode is a major turning point for them and Chika especially. Hopefully...

B-but it's not like she's become my favorite Aqours girl or anything...

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by novalysis

Just a bit of devils advocating here: why doesn't ARISE represent proper Sports anime rivals, while Saint Snow does?

A-RISE are more of a friendly rival to Muse, so the competition between them isn't that stiff, both will be happy for the other if either of them won LL. The sports element is still there because although they are basically "allies", they will still compete against each other with everything they got.

Saint Snow makes for a more proper sports anime rival for Aqours because they represent the classic "favorite opponent team" to Aqours' classic "underdog hero team". Saint Snow is basically the Paul to Aqours' Ash.