Watched the raw again. I'm sure Arad mentions Hayate's dad used to play a lot with Windermerian children, so it's almost 90% confirmed he's the mysterious mp3 player gifter. I'll be truly shocked if he isn't.
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"Who would understand you after I die? Who else would march forward by your side?"
Hayate's dad confirmed for having nuked windermere.
Spoiler for actually:
He dropped the nuke on the NUNS base on Windermere thus helping them reclaim independence, so that changes stuff quite a lot.
Roid being shady and manipulative in order to start a war again (because I'm positive he's aware that it was the NUNS base that was nuked) and maybe Cassim finds out the truth next episode?
He dropped the nuke on the NUNS base on Windermere thus helping them reclaim independence, so that changes stuff quite a lot.
Roid being shady and manipulative in order to start a war again (because I'm positive he's aware that it was the NUNS base that was nuked) and maybe Cassim finds out the truth next episode?
Spoiler for sigh here comes the apologists:
I don't think you grasp the scene at all or the implications. It was illegal for the NUNS to even produce and bring one of those weapons to Windermere, but they did: they violated the treaties and laws (not the first time they did it. Why else would they violently try to take over the autonomy of a independent planet and embroil themselves in a war with Windermere in the first place?). That's why they covered up the incident and lied about it because they shouldn't have brought forbidden weapons of mass destruction in Windermere. It was illegal. Period. Arad explicitly states so. There's nowhere implied that he did it for Windermere to win the war or that was the consequence of it. You're making stuff up from the dialogue to whitewash the NUNS.
I don't think that Hayate will confront Roid at all as things are going right now. Because Keith is the one involved in that (the Heinz-Roid-Keith "triangle"), and the conflict set up is with him for sure. Hayate wants to find out the truth of why his father did that after this mission. Call me crazy, but it's fairly obvious that the truth isn't in Windermere but with the obviously stereotypical evil NUNS leaders introduced a couple of episodes back. You can easily identify because they practically have "Bad Guys" badge to tag them. So then, I speculate the following:
1. Cassim, Keith and Hermann will stop Roid and his supporters. Perhaps with Freyja's and Mikumo's help because someone will have to deal with Heinz. There is inner issues within Windermere forces already. The meeting with Cassim next episode can set this up.
2. Hayate with Mirage and Chuck might go after the corrupted NUNS officers/find out the truth behind the war 7 years ago/reveal a bigger conspiracy. They agreed to assist Hayate in what he needs after he resolves to find out the truth (this opens a window for Mirage to be a contender in the triangle).
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"Who would understand you after I die? Who else would march forward by your side?"
I don't think you grasp the scene at all or the implications. It was illegal for the NUNS to even produce and bring one of those weapons to Windermere, but they did: they violated the treaties and laws (not the first time they did it. Why else would they violently try to take over the autonomy of a independent planet and embroil themselves in a war with Windermere in the first place?). That's why they covered up the incident and lied about it because they shouldn't have brought forbidden weapons of mass destruction in Windermere. It was illegal. Period. Arad explicitly states so. There's nowhere implied that he did it for Windermere to win the war or that was the consequence of it. You're making stuff up from the dialogue to whitewash the NUNS.
I don't think that Hayate will confront Roid at all as things are going right now. Because Keith is the one involved in that (the Heinz-Roid-Keith "triangle"), and the conflict set up is with him for sure. Hayate wants to find out the truth of why his father did that after this mission. Call me crazy, but it's fairly obvious that the truth isn't in Windermere but with the obviously stereotypical evil NUNS leaders introduced a couple of episodes back. You can easily identify because they practically have "Bad Guys" badge to tag them.
Spoiler:
Why are you being so aggressive? I'm not being an apologist nor trying to whitewash anything, I never stated the bomb was legal, I just noticed in the raw that Arad says Wright effectively steals and drops the bomb (that the NUNS never should have had in the first place) on the NUNS base (after contacting the Windermere independence forces). Watch the subs if you don't believe me but don't be so quick to judge my intentions, I'm just trying to have a conversation.
Last edited by ereshkigal; 2016-07-25 at 04:24.
Reason: spelling
Why are you being so aggressive? I'm not being an apologist nor trying to whitewash anything, I never stated the bomb was legal, I just noticed in the raw that Arad says Wright effectively steals and drops the bomb (that the NUNS never should have had in the first place) on the NUNS base (after contacting the Windermere independence forces). Watch the subs if you don't believe me but don't be so quick to judge my intentions, I'm just trying to have a conversation.
Spoiler for mmhmm:
You omitted the whole "the bomb they shouldn't have." It Arad never stated that it was for the Windermere to win or anything. That was you, making up stuff. It simply killed soldiers and civilians. The point was that he wasn't a man who would unleash that kind of slaughter.
The point is that Hayate wants to find out the truth behind this. I think it'll be less questioning why his father dropped a bomb and why did the NUNS brought a forbidden weapon to Windermere. We know they tried to do something which failed 7 years ago. I don't think those four shady, green lit council of doom makes up for the whole forces either.
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"Who would understand you after I die? Who else would march forward by your side?"
Finished watching the subbed version and I knew it, I fucking knew that Wright Immelman dropped the dimensional bomb! But then again, it's perplexing that he was contacted by Windermere rebel forces to stole that bomb and used it against the NUNS, which is then used by Lord Roid Brehm as proof that the New United Nations broke the treaty to quell Windermereans.
Meanwhile, loved how Walkure made a guerrilla concert that'll make them more money by clicking the like button! On the other hand, I wonder if Hayate's fold quartz pendant is failing after hearing Freyja's voice? And speaking of Hayate, I'm worried about him now that he knows the truth about his father!
In any case, I hope the Delta Squadron will take Voldor back, but I'm worried about Roid Brehm as he's finding a replacement for Lord Heinz.
Alright, I'll be honest; been watching Delta since it's preview air months prior to its official air. And I'll avoid discussing all prior episodes because I probably will pile it all into one massive review on my Tumblr. Of course, I ship Hayate and Freyja; however, I do like Mirage, too. Now I'm done giving all the general introductions of my side of the fanbase.
I'll begin on the love triangle because it's easier to cover at this point.
Spoiler for You know how shoujo anime is all about a first-person perspective?:
This episode is a continuation of something I've been kicking into a corner since last episode: first-person perspective. And I don't mean our perspective on it either. In the last episode, did anyone else besides me realize all first-person perspective of Freyja is done by Hayate? The snow scene, for instance, is a big clue because thisscene lodged this theory into my mind and this episode 100% confirms it for me.
The previous episode opened up this door because of Mirage, ironically. If she didn't go "Do you favor Freyja?" (or for a direct translation "Are you two dating?" while bowing to GG for their other areas of translation), his relationship with her could be friendship; however, his reply is more like he doesn't know himself because she is not only a friend/comrade/partner in his eyes. This episode is 100% (on a romance scale) about him recognizing he is romantically pursuing Freyja.
I don't know if I should be happy because I ship this pairing or displeased because it's so easy to love their chemistry and "shoujo-esqe" build towards romance. Because, right now, I believe Freyja knows she loves Hayate, and it's Hayate who is catching up.
Forgoing all love triangle nonsense...
You know, sometimes anime is... not very subtle on foreshadowing it's important plot devices. Because I believe it's progressively harder to foreshadow a surprise in an anime unlike a novel (images versus words), and I don't know all about directing an episode, I'll brush this off a little in each episode. However, in this episode, I could hear a voice whispering in my ear "we're unoriginal" because once
Spoiler for Hayate's father:
Hayate discovers his father is behind the Windermere bombing...
it's a disappointment. Of course, like you all here, I did speculate this theory; however, a piece of me begged for Delta not to fall down this road! Because it's... too predictable at this point.
Of course, even so, I'll keep on watching because I do have higher hopes for Roid becoming an interesting "secondary villian" (because I believe our beloved corrupted NUNS will be our main villian) and in general I wish for backstory on Mikumo (I like her personality). I'll keep hoping for a little bit of originality, I guess...
Wait, is this a mistranslation by gg, or does Roid really believe that humans live longer than all the other protoculture manipulated races? Did he confuse them with the Zentradi/Meltrandi?
Well nobody is telling the truth as nobody knows the whole truth and skeletons in the closet.
Windermere NUNS illegally brought on a planet a MDE. Given what happened to Gaul 4 and the 33rd Marines yeah the NUNG would ban that. However NUNS is made up of different military forces in a NATO setup. There are cases where Federal NUNS doesn't know what some groups are doing like with Lactence and Havamal. As to why Windermere NUNS would do this I suspect it s because the cluster lacks a big stick like other planets in other regions of the galaxy. Earth has a fleet and defense satellite grid. Vulcan has a laser satellite grid. Varauta has the Fleet Flagship Carrier designed to kill off a thousand strong Zentradi fleet. Fleets we've seen on the cluster seem anemic. Al Shahal had 41 ships in its defense. Ragna had 29 ships. Macross 7 an emigration fleet had 187 warships. The Varauta fleet had 502 ships.
2059 to 2060 seems to be a bad years as uncultured Lost Zentradi fleets has attacked colonies. NUNS had to ask for assistance from the Aerial Knights to fight the Zentradi in their region of space. Sephira in Macross 30 in 2059 was attacked by Lost Zentradi as well.
Windermere higher ups on the other hand isn't telling the truth that they asked Wright Immelman to steal the MDE from Windermere NUNS. Those that knew that are probably pushing up daisies already.
So from those who knows the bit of the truth. Windermere blames NUNS for bringing the MDE planet side in the first place. NUNS blames Windermere for turning Wright Immelman and blowing up their base and the city.
The one who knows the whole truth of the matter is Wright Immelman. The missing piece as it were.
Why do I have a feeling he left a message on Freyja's player? He is likely the one who gave it to her.
As to why it was dropped some of theories going around is that Wright may have been a Var victim or Epsilon is involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn
Wait, is this a mistranslation by gg, or does Roid really believe that humans live longer than all the other protoculture manipulated races? Did he confuse them with the Zentradi/Meltrandi?
While Earthers did increase their numbers by cloning they do have a tendency to intermarry with Zentradi defectors and their descendants. The Terran-Zentradi union to Roid are practically Earthers.
He keeps asking why but he doesn't want to acknowledge the obvious truth that Earthers realized... The Protoculture can be a bunch of dicks. They create a race denying them culture to act as their war proxies. They leave a weapon of mass destruction on Earth in case the natives become like their mistakes to destroy them. Hell they nerfed Terrans own Fold Receptor potential as they can have access to their most advanced weapons if they have them.
And Roid keeps asking why Terrans that are weaker and no runes live longer and consider it unfair? Whle believing Windermereans are the true heirs of the Protoculture?
While Earthers did increase their numbers by cloning they do have a tendency to intermarry with Zentradi defectors and their descendants. The Terran-Zentradi union to Roid are practically Earthers.
He keeps asking why but he doesn't want to acknowledge the obvious truth that Earthers realized... The Protoculture can be a bunch of dicks. They create a race denying them culture to act as their war proxies. They leave a weapon of mass destruction on Earth in case the natives become like their mistakes to destroy them. Hell they nerfed Terrans own Fold Receptor potential as they can have access to their most advanced weapons if they have them.
And Roid keeps asking why Terrans that are weaker and no runes live longer and consider it unfair? Whle believing Windermereans are the true heirs of the Protoculture?
Thanks, that makes a bit more sense.
As for the ep, Freyja and Hayate finally have a moment where they resonate romantically for me. Mirage is still treated as an afterthought, though.
And, yeah, Hayate finally gets a conflict, which was long, long overdue. I hope that carries him forward through the end of the series. Heck, he and Freyja may have gotten a brand new conflict because of Freyja's live span and them both realizing that any romance would be pretty short-lived.
All in all, a good episode which moved the narrative forward quite a bit and developed the characters. Can't complain too much about that.
Two things, though:
1.) I don't think that Bogue will flip to the side of the good guys at any time in the future, comical as he was in this episode.
2.) The "Yep, NUNS totally lied and boo, are they evil!" argument has a big hole in it: That Hayate's dad contacted the Windermeran resistance and then dropped the bomb. There's something there which will flip the narrative once again.
This is no longer a love triangle (at least not for now), Mirage is just slightly above Chuck and maybe Arad as a character, but it's really evident that she is not a main character as she is not important for the story and her interactions with other characters are small, the only thing she has going for her is that she's a Jenius.
And since we've been discussing about Mirage I thought that these excerpts from some interviews with Kawamori are kind of relevant to the topic.
Spoiler for Interviews:
My personal theory is that maybe when the sponsors asked Kawamori to include a love triangle Mirage was created for the show just to fill that role, or she was a secondary character that they took and modified for the same reason, they made her a Jenius to create interest for her character but she really has no character arc and her development has been almost nonexistent.
Anyway, another exopsition episode with some fanservice specially from Makina this time, the truth about Hayate's father has been revealed, I don't know why but now I think that maybe Hayate's dad was the person that gave Freyja her music player, a funny scene with the windermereans and also the doubts of the two older Knights are more evident.
That being said, WHERE IS MY VALKYRIE ACTION?! it's been 4 episodes since we had a good battle (the one from ep 15 does't count for me as it was like 30 seconds long and was dumb in how Keith took a whole fleet down), now hopefully next one will be action-packed.
Sorry but that interview make it sound like Mirage was originally intended to be main love interest and Freya was added later.
Anyway Hayate father nuking Windermere raised Freya chances a lot. It shame because for moment I thought Mirage win is certain.
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"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Come on, everything and everyone in this show revolves around Frejya, at this point it would be really sadistic toward freyja's fans to not giving her even the win. It would make no sense (even if anime is not new at these shortcomings).
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The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.
Just sit back and enjoy the visuals I say, especially with how things are, character wise, at this point. They still have an episode left for Mirage to catch up or, at least rise from her side supporting character role.
Even if Wright was the one who gave Freyja her mp3 player, I highly doubt if would contain a message to Hayate, that is such a contrived coincidence.
Roid's failure to understand, Terrans own problem caused by protoculture dickery is astounding.
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