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View Poll Results: Macross Delta - Episode 5 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 4 | 13.33% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 10 | 33.33% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 9 | 30.00% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 10.00% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 10.00% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 3.33% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll |
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2016-05-02, 04:06 | Link #61 | ||
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If you want a more decent comparison, you might go with 19th century imperialism and even that is very tenuous and dependent on the view of a bunch of obvious fanatical terrorists at this time.
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2016-05-02, 04:18 | Link #63 |
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Bull. Shit. The Windermerans didn't even know Walkure was on Al-Shahal. They attacked a civilian population center by sequestrating the minds of the garrison and unleashing it on the civilian populace of the city. Hundreds, probably thousands died. They. Are. Terrorists.
And "collateral damage" is a prettified way of saying "murdering the civilians", anyway. Fucking Orwellian western language spinmeister shit.
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2016-05-02, 04:33 | Link #64 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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How can you claim they didn't know? Well, you are wrong regardless so it doesn't matter. As you could see this episode Var syndrome is weapon for highjacking military might of enemy. It's target was Garrison itself AND possibly Valkures, civilian victims are just result of poor control at the time.
Anyway murder is matter of civil law (with emphasis on civil part). War has it's own set. So no there was no "murdering" lol. Of course before Western culture established it it war was far more indiscriminate.
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2016-05-02, 04:38 | Link #65 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I don't approve of terrorism (d'uh), and I honestly don't want to start a political debate here, but as real-life scholars, commentators and even everyday people have pointed out: 'privilege is blind'. To apply this to Delta, at this point, we have little idea about what the Windemereans have tried to do to get what they want, and thus how the system that the colonisers have brought constrains them (according to their pov, anyway). The people that benefit the most from the system (UN Spacy and the humans that have spread through the Galaxy) probably do not understand -- they may not even think that any of these worlds and peoples that they've 'lifted up' should have any reason to be unhappy about the 'good' that they have brought. Much less see that the system they have imposed may well be biased towards UN Spacy's interests in some way. So I'm not going to condemn the Windemereans at this point. Whilst I don't like what they are doing, they may really think that they have no other choice.
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Last edited by karice67; 2016-05-03 at 02:15. |
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2016-05-02, 05:09 | Link #66 | ||
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Of course you can argue that the Windermerans have put themselves out of that kind of law, which makes them nothing more than petty warlords. So, yes, if you want to white knight for the terrorist government, be my guest. Quote:
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2016-05-02, 05:12 | Link #67 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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The Kingdom of Wind seems to be Macross' answer to Zeon. We are doing this for Independence! (They are already independent.) We will free all out our fellow Brisingr cluster planets! (Commit terrorism then invade them taking away their culture.)
Now the real reason is damn those Earthers it is we who should rule as we are the legit heirs of the Protoculture and our people need planets as that dimension weapon we used doomed our world and we are running out of time. Know what I've seen this before with Frontier's politicians instead of asking the NUN for help they proceeded to invade another race's planet out of desperation and pride. |
2016-05-02, 05:26 | Link #68 | ||
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Btw, I don't think a bunch of aliens of Windemere gives a damn about Geneva convention which was set up on Earth without their consent (see that would be the kind fo self-centered presumption of a single civilization to preach about like they were superior I see them hating and wishing to shake off) or any kind of imposed 'treaty' they had not partaked. That's just hilarious. I think they were fairly smart to measure up their opponents before they declare the war. I'm willing to bet that Kawamori might be going with "cultural imperialism" and "cultural genocide" breeds violence and war as message here. It's always about culture, just a different aspect of it's explored now. While the Windermere will learn to be more lax about cultural mixing and less uppity about theirs at the same time, of course. Also since when Spacy has been portrayed in a flattering way in Macross? The 90s?
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Last edited by Thess; 2016-05-02 at 05:41. |
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2016-05-02, 05:45 | Link #69 | |||
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Also, as far as I can see, their entire arguments hinges on being "the true heirs of protoculture" (so they are dangerously arrogant) and "liberating the other races of the sector from NUNS (so far I can see, the Ragnans don't particularly want to be "liberated").
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2016-05-02, 05:46 | Link #70 | |
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As for laws I don't know anything what kind they have, but until Geneva forbids song weapons, it is pretty much in line with it.
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2016-05-02, 06:04 | Link #72 | |
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Nonetheless, doing weapon tests on civilian populations still is the very definition of a war crime. If you think that can be morally justified in any way, I recommend you take a long look at your moral standards.
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2016-05-02, 06:21 | Link #73 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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They were doing tests on enemy military Garrison. Civilians were probably hit by it occasionally, but compared to soldiers there was only minimum of them shown.
As for Loid his opinion is only one that matter, he is brain of whole thing and whatever other think, they follow his orders.
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2016-05-02, 06:27 | Link #74 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Age: 48
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Actually, they seem to have an ailing king.
And I don't find your "civilians were occasionally hit" argument convincing at all. The very first episode shows us that VAR affected Zentrans go on killing sprees and it certainly does look like civilians mostly get hit.
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2016-05-02, 07:01 | Link #79 | |
Secret Society BLANKET
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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The fact that Var is known to be indiscriminate back when they were trying to use it means that they would know that civilian casualties would be likely and inevitable, given the very close proximity of said military garrison to Al-Shahal? We even see ambulances and injured civilians in episode 2. Also, the only reason that civilian casualties were kept to a minimum was because of Walkure and Delta Squadron's fast reaction. What would've happened to all those people that the infected Zentradi launched missiles against had Walkure not used their shield drones? What would've happened to that crying mother and child about to get attacked by that Quaedluun had Mikumo not jumped in a hail of gunfire and cured it? And that's just all that we as the audience are allowed to see. Considering the scale of the devastation we've seen, it's unfortunately highly likely that the civilian death toll was quite high for a usually peaceful place like Al-Shahal.
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2016-05-02, 07:03 | Link #80 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Yeah, if it comes to it, I had intend mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki myself, these are all indeed example of collateral damage of legit military operations.
Point is knowing civilians causalities are inevitable is alright aiming for that is not. That's difference. Anyway considering Windermere were able take two whole planets with literally no fight, make it all worth.
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