Log Horizon - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[Ickarium]

I don't think levels are linear by any means. The implication is the high level adventurers totally CURB STOMP the Landers. Like how Krusty was like 'Yeah, it really was a challenge *whistles*' while fighting level 30-40 Landers.

It's very obviously modeled more closely by Everquest, yes. And Final Fantasy and a few other things. However, even in EQ as I recall (Haven't played it in YEARS), high levels still curb stomped lower ones. This is because by nature of how stats work, stats have to be non-linear. Otherwise as you level up, stat gain becomes abysmal.

Like I've said. More likely a combination of her being naked, not a front line combatant, and 'OMG THOSE SWORDS WILL HURT' because she's not used to actually experiencing things.

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Over 1000 level 20s is not the same as a level 1 anything.

A character who isn't specced for combat, who has no equipment, and who as badly outnumbered as she was is in danger no matter what level they are.

I never said she was going to win.

You do realize that the Lv1 Hogger raids usually end in the death of Hogger, right?

[Swordstriker21]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

Like I've said. More likely a combination of her being naked, not a front line combatant, and 'OMG THOSE SWORDS WILL HURT' because she's not used to actually experiencing things.

This^

Most of the "graphic" stuff got cut out of the adaptation but in this current world they're in they can get hurt and bleed... very badly.

Try staying cam and telling yourself you've still got tons of HP left even though you have a large hole through your gut w/ a spear sticking out of it

Well maybe I'm exaggerating but still. Even if pain is scaled down to swords (and other weapons) and claws (or fangs and other monster appendages) from low level mobs equate to feeling like you getting a stubbed toe (by Naotsugu) several thousand spears raining down > thousands of times stubbing your toe > not a very pleasant experience.

[Kafriel]

What if Marie's got an enchanted bikini +5?

So, big-ass invasion from fishmen with no tails (how did they swim so fast with legs?) while carrying polearms (what are they made of, why don't they sink!?)...and they emerge with enough speed to fly like bullets! Judging from the preview, there's also a goblin army with a boss on the other side of the country - next few episodes will be war. I wonder if sorcerers and summoners can master huge AoE spells to the effect that Regan was talking about in his magic scale crash course...

Rudy really is an unlucky guy...first he gets friend-zoned at the hot springs and then he can't even get properly friend-zoned by Isuzu At least his spells look cool.

All in all, awesome episode, lots of tanking and flanking, the dungeon crawling is coming to an end and a huge fight begins!

[FRS]

At last, Minori managed to teach her group the basics of MMORPG combat and we start to see the big invasion, cant wait to see the rest animated.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by DQueenie13

The anime excluded the scene of her healing the newbies (at least, to my knowledge) while they were training (not a spoiler since we already passed that point). If anyone was injured, she would heal them, but as a level 90 it was a rather basic task and didn't detract from her sunbathing.

And if you think about it, the trainers at Ragranda Forest didn't have to do anything when the kids were in the dungeon. We saw that Naotsugu and Marie were chatting while Nyanta was cooking and Rezarick was off who-knows-where.

Yeah, it's pretty much a case of "We're here in case you really need our help, but there's only so much we can do. You have to learn this stuff on your own."

Shoryuu just got more involved because he's Shoryuu. He likes being involved.

Originally Posted by Ickarium

I don't think levels are linear by any means. The implication is the high level adventurers totally CURB STOMP the Landers. Like how Krusty was like 'Yeah, it really was a challenge *whistles*' while fighting level 30-40 Landers.

It's very obviously modeled more closely by Everquest, yes. And Final Fantasy and a few other things. However, even in EQ as I recall (Haven't played it in YEARS), high levels still curb stomped lower ones. This is because by nature of how stats work, stats have to be non-linear. Otherwise as you level up, stat gain becomes abysmal.

Like I've said. More likely a combination of her being naked, not a front line combatant, and 'OMG THOSE SWORDS WILL HURT' because she's not used to actually experiencing things.

Very low exponential. According to the HP/MP chart, there's a steady 500-ish increase per level, which only gets to 600-ish per level around level 60.

Krusty is a whole 'nother kettle of fish since he is walking around in high-end raid armor. Not a bikini.

[Sheba]

Thank you keroko for that fantastic mental image.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Nvis

Didn't she think it was unfair for the other lvl90s tutoring the newbies while she sat around?

Everyone from the Round Table is doing their job except her....

if we go by novel (remove scene from anime)-> she heal all low level while having sun bath -> which give them unlimited battle time
(In FFXI -> there was nothing better than to have high level healer outside the party healing you while you are fighting trash )

[Dark Wing]

For those of you saying this show lacked action...well here you go!

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Over 1000 level 20s is not the same as a level 1 anything.

A character who isn't specced for combat, who has no equipment, and who as badly outnumbered as she was is in danger no matter what level they are.

That, and how many MMORPG's actually have you fighting thousands of enemy bots at once? The veteran players certainly seemed to think this was an incredibly unusual number.

Originally Posted by Mubyoshi

Dammit, I was hoping to see Marie fight, but instead she almost gets taken out by lv30 trash mobs even though she herself is a lv90. Kinda pissed me off there.

To be fair, she's probably high level enough that getting hit wouldn't have taken her out...OTOH she's not a direct combat class, has no specialized combat gear on at the moment, and dealing with a bit of an unprecedented number of enemies ATM.

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

There is no Akatsuki this episode, I feel sad. I hope next episode is full of action.

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by DQueenie13

She's not an Armored Cleric (whose role is to be on the front lines) and has little fighting experience even when ET was a game, much less after the Catastrophe. Considering that she didn't even have a weapon (especially not when she's relaxing at the beach), she doesn't have a way to fight off the monsters anyhow. Leave the fighting Cleric role to Rezarick (the brown-haired guy from the Black Sword Knights).

Well she could have been a little better prepared since the reason they were there was train up newbies and between the expansion pack and this not being the exact same ET when they were playing a game surprises could easily pop up. However even if she had switched into some armor and equipped a weapon she would have been in a bad position fighting monsters is a lot then when it was just a game and she's still a cleric and this way more then a game.
People need stop trying to think of it quite so strictly as an MMO look at Rudy if his team had used the approach of pulling back and letting him die to teach him a lesson that has been repeatedly suggested on this board he'd be permanently dead.

I got feel bad for Rudy being pet zone that's just cold.

[Mubyoshi]

I suppose it makes sense if you guys put it that way, come to think of it, I just realized I was like the cast of the show before they realized they should stop treating the world like a game haha.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by GundamFan

Well she could have been a little better prepared since the reason they were there was train up newbies and between the expansion pack and this not being the exact same ET when they were playing a game surprises could easily pop up.

Quite the opposite, really. The main reason for this training camp was to give a time and place for newbies to learn the ropes of fighting in this new world in a controlled environment.

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Quite the opposite, really. The main reason for this training camp was to give a time and place for newbies to learn the ropes of fighting in this new world in a controlled environment.

It's not really the opposite Maryelle was chaperone even though they were taking the newbies to a relatively safe area and they were going to have them party on there own the reason they sent along chaperones was so that if something unexpected came up they'd be there to help out. She should have had some gear ready to equip if needed. Not that I'm really surprised that she didn't given her character.

[Keroko]

"Controlled environment." The big folk were there to keep an eye on things, answer any questions and help if it is really required. Help in this case being healing someone or giving advice. That does not include "protection in case of unexpected invasion of massive shahaguin who shouldn't even be here."

[The Green One]

Agreed, a zerg rush fish invasion couldn't of possibly been predicted. Our vacationing Cleric really didn't have much to supervise other then to answer an occasional question or toss a heal spell when one of the newbies runs up and says HEAL PLZ. The crabs were really low level grind mobs, something even the really low level newbies could handle in relative safety. Marielle's job didn't require much oversight until it was time for today's episode of "When seafood attacks"

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by Keroko

"Controlled environment." The big folk were there to keep an eye on things, answer any questions and help if it is really required. Help in this case being healing someone or giving advice. That does not include "protection in case of unexpected invasion of massive shahaguin who shouldn't even be here."

I wasn't suggesting that Maryelle should have been ready for what happened judging by there reaction this was unprecedented event however new bosses and event monsters could have been added on pkers could have showed up we all know the round has pissed off all of them. My point is she should have been ready for some sort of combat since they were outside of the safe of the city. I wouldn't expect anyone to see what happened coming that's why said she should have been a little better prepared.

[Ickarium]

Note when I talk about stats, I mean all stats and especially item stats. WoW's base stats are fairly linear too. Just did a peek at the items listed for EQ to refresh myself, and it's item stats I'm talking about that tend to be exponential. Reason for this: At low level when your current item has 100 points in X, +20 is AWESOME, a 20% boost. When at high level, when your current item has say, 500 points, +20 is only 4%, it feels far smaller. S'why most games do exponential item growth, they have to or it feels like you're not progressing.

Base stats, usually the big ones are hp and mana, but even basic stats develop.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

Note when I talk about stats, I mean all stats and especially item stats. WoW's base stats are fairly linear too. Just did a peek at the items listed for EQ to refresh myself, and it's item stats I'm talking about that tend to be exponential. Reason for this: At low level when your current item has 100 points in X, +20 is AWESOME, a 20% boost. When at high level, when your current item has say, 500 points, +20 is only 4%, it feels far smaller. S'why most games do exponential item growth, they have to or it feels like you're not progressing.

Base stats, usually the big ones are hp and mana, but even basic stats develop.

The stats are for an average adventurer with average gear of that level. A high-end raider will usually have around 125% of the stats in the list.