2020 US Presidential Election Discussion (primary & general)

[Toukairin]

That **** Bloomberg bought the crowd. That is what happened.

Seriously on debates in general, I really miss Candy Crowley from the time she was working at CNN before her retirement. She was the one I would trust anytime to lay down the law while imposing the need for facts in a debate.

edit: Even if Bernie wins, so what? His policies would barely scratch the center-left agenda in Europe, which is is a very far cry from all the crap from Cuba, China, North Korea and the defunct Soviet Union.

[EroKing]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/7afAUnsuHN4

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[Key Board]

Originally Posted by Toukairin

That **** Bloomberg bought the crowd. That is what happened.

Seriously on debates in general, I really miss Candy Crowley from the time she was working at CNN before her retirement. She was the one I would trust anytime to lay down the law while imposing the need for facts in a debate.

edit: Even if Bernie wins, so what? His policies would barely scratch the center-left agenda in Europe, which is is a very far cry from all the crap from Cuba, China, North Korea and the defunct Soviet Union.

It's true his policies aren't as left compared to other countries, but if you use the American baseline, Bernie is "un-American" to some people.

To accept Sander's message is to accept that the upper class exploits the system and makes sure the system stays exploited for the upper-class sake.

It will personally break the belief system of many "pull yourself up by the your bootstrap" Americans.

It's more comforting to them to believe the system is fair and billionaire or trillionaire achieved success by "doing everything right and working a lot harder than the people they employ"

some Americans are very.... housebroken

[Sugetsu]

The New York time has an article out where 93 super delegates have already expressed strong opposition to Bernie's nomination if it comes down to a contested election.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/u...delegates.html

Here is Kyle's analysis on this article:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/oeaD4mnu2SY

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Keep in mind that this guy is a very influential voice in the progressive wing of the party. He helped elect AOC and was one of the founders of Justice Democrats.

[Skulkraken]

Clearly the solution, then, is to take advantage of this early lead, and push Bernie into having such a clear and commanding majority of regular delegates that the nomination never becomes contested in the first place. :v

[Toukairin]

I think the mere concept of superdelegates needs to be abolished altogether.

Originally Posted by Key Board

It's true his policies aren't as left compared to other countries, but if you use the American baseline, Bernie is "un-American" to some people.

To accept Sander's message is to accept that the upper class exploits the system and makes sure the system stays exploited for the upper-class sake.

It will personally break the belief system of many "pull yourself up by the your bootstrap" Americans.

It's more comforting to them to believe the system is fair and billionaire or trillionaire achieved success by "doing everything right and working a lot harder than the people they employ"

some Americans are very.... housebroken

With plenty of stuff like the college admission scandal, Trump's tax returns not being investigated (while the IRS would jail regular people for minor irregularities with tax returns), CEOs getting more bonuses while employees keep on being fired, and other stuff that shows the increasing inequalities between rich and regular folks, I don't think it would be difficult to get that the system is exploited by the upper class.

Those "pull yourself up by the your bootstrap" Americans are fooling themselves if they think that the system has not created a new form of abusive aristocracy in their country.

I wonder how many Americans would hold the same talking points now if an alternate history saw the United States enduring something like the Blitzkrieg on home soil during WW2. I point that out because most if not all countries who directly suffered from the war ended up putting up those social safety nets within a few decades following the war. The irony is that those social safety nets were following propositions that came from an American - Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who proposed a second Bill of Rights before his death.

[Sugetsu]

The all important super Tuesday is here. The establishment is pulling all the stops and coalescing behind Biden to take away a Bernie super majority. At the very least the DNC wants a contested election. Today is a very important day in American politics. This day will be instrumental in the future of the Democratic Party.

I would love for Tulsi to drop out and endorse Bernie... But it seems that she is very stubborn, and on principle she'd rather stay in the race till the bitter end.

Yang also seems to be looking out for his own interests at this point and I don't see him endorsing anybody soon.

[Toukairin]

It is obvious that Klobuchar and Buttigieg chose to push themselves off the road in order to put all eggs into the same Biden basket rather than let things take their natural course. Worse than that, they are not backing down at any means to block an ambitious progressive agenda that the US desperately needs after 50+ years of centrist and right-winged social policies. It's disgusting to say the least.

As much as I really enjoyed Warren's run a lot, I think it would be better for everyone if she lets bygones be bygones for now by endorsing Bernie. That is for the sake of improving the odds of seeing a social democrat on the ticket.

Recently, I was going through a number of archives to appreciate further what kind of President FDR was. FDR was proudly putting the interests of the people way above all, despite several attacks from people who said he was a communist. If it wasn't for him, there would be no recovery after the Depression, and quality of life in the US would not have jumped as high as it was for those decades. Now that US history has been what it is after his time, the current situation makes it obvious that the US needs someone cut from that cloth.

[Ithekro]

Well Sander wins California (largest state in terms of population in the Union). The old South voted Biden. The Media is making it about Biden winning numbers of states, but the two are fairly close on actual numbers of delegates.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well Sander wins California (largest state in terms of population in the Union). The old South voted Biden. The Media is making it about Biden winning numbers of states, but the two are fairly close on actual numbers of delegates.

Before yesterday most of the best-case scenarios for Biden put him 50-100 delegates behind Sanders after Super Tuesday. For Biden to be ahead is pretty astonishing, though California could put Bernie slightly ahead when all the votes are counted.

The primary calendar isn't very favorable for Sanders. Next week he might win North Dakota and Idaho, states with few delegates, and perhaps more fruitful Washington. Biden is likely to pick up Mississippi and Missouri. Michigan is the key since Sanders won the state in 2016. A Biden victory there powered by the state's black population could prove the end for Bernie. He won't go away, though, given his finances and the passion of his supporters.

A week later we have Florida, Ohio, and Illinois, all big states likely to vote for Biden. Arizona could be more competitive.

https://www.270towin.com/2020-election-calendar/

(I'll "declare my interest" as British MPs say. I voted for Biden in yesterday's primary here in Massachusetts.)

[ramlaen]

Warren has been pretty successful at her job of being Bernie's Ross Perot.

[Key Board]

I guess Sander's path depends on the bible belt and how they feel about NAFTA/M4A vs voting for a "un-American socialist"

It's hard to admit it, but identity politics does seem to matter. Bidden won some super Tuesday states he didn't even campaign in.

//

[Ithekro]

Or the states that are pretty much going to vote Republican in November are trying to keep the Democrats sort of divided or with someone they think won't get in Trump's way.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Before yesterday most of the best-case scenarios for Biden put him 50-100 delegates behind Sanders after Super Tuesday. For Biden to be ahead is pretty astonishing, though California could put Bernie slightly ahead when all the votes are counted.

The primary calendar isn't very favorable for Sanders. Next week he might win North Dakota and Idaho, states with few delegates, and perhaps more fruitful Washington. Biden is likely to pick up Mississippi and Missouri. Michigan is the key since Sanders won the state in 2016. A Biden victory there powered by the state's black population could prove the end for Bernie. He won't go away, though, given his finances and the passion of his supporters.

A week later we have Florida, Ohio, and Illinois, all big states likely to vote for Biden. Arizona could be more competitive.

https://www.270towin.com/2020-election-calendar/

(I'll "declare my interest" as British MPs say. I voted for Biden in yesterday's primary here in Massachusetts.)

If anything CA will get very close as the late mail ballots come in. Biden won late deciders by 20+ points.

It's over, basically. Sanders made a fundamental mistake in never trying to expand his coalition, thinking his core supporters were enough (they're not). His tepid performance in New Hampshire, though he won, was evidence he was in deep trouble. The only real question now is whether he and his supporters once more pout and throw the election to Trump, like they did in 2016. The problem is that there's so much temperamental overlap between the Trump and Sanders movements that some of his supporters are quite comfortable with what we have vs. an "establishment" Democrat.

[Skulkraken]

The kingmakers for this primary are media outlets like CNN and MSNBC.

Looking at the exit polls and anecdotes from people who talked to voters at polling sites, it seems like the continuous "electability" rhetoric that followed the last debate was a really important factor in Biden getting a sudden and noticeable surge of support from older voters.

So how things play out on TV will probably decide how the rest of the primary goes.

[Guardian Enzo]

CNN and MSNBC softballed Sanders through the entire primary process. They never pushed him on breaking his promise to release his medical records, or his refusal to join the party, or the genuinely scary stuff happening at some of his rallies which he refused to condemn. And of course Fox softballed him because they desperately wanted him to be the nominee, just like Trump and the Russians did.

The party didn’t decide. The media didn’t decide. The voters decided, and it looks like they decided on somebody else, just like last time. That’s the process, deal with it. I’m a Warren supporter and it pisses me off that despite being clearly the most prepared and capable candidate with the best chance of taking down Trump, she faced a colossal wall of misogyny from both the press and the voters. It sucks, but it is what it is.

[coded321]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

If anything CA will get very close as the late mail ballots come in. Biden won late deciders by 20+ points.

It's over, basically. Sanders made a fundamental mistake in never trying to expand his coalition, thinking his core supporters were enough (they're not). His tepid performance in New Hampshire, though he won, was evidence he was in deep trouble. The only real question now is whether he and his supporters once more pout and throw the election to Trump, like they did in 2016. The problem is that there's so much temperamental overlap between the Trump and Sanders movements that some of his supporters are quite comfortable with what we have vs. an "establishment" Democrat.

Oh, here we go, you're already blaming bernie supporters for Biden's inevitable loss to trump in November, even though 90% of Bernie's supporters voted for Clinton in 2016. Make no mistake, we will vote in November for Biden, with the full expectation trump eats Biden alive. We deserve another 4 years of trump. Hopefully trump burns America to the ground so we can finally reset the slate and truly make progress. Seriously, Biden has ZERO major policy positions, so conservative he's practically a republican, can barely form a coherent sentence, mistook his sister for his wife, shows signs of alzheimers & dementia, who's only major pitch is that he's not trump. Electability my a$$. We're being forced to vote the lesser of two evils AGAIN. Only this time, biden is a much, much weaker candidate than Hillary. Even if he wins, then what? A return to the status quo that got trump elected in the first place? Based on his statements and positions, he won't even undo most of the damage caused by trump's administration. And the only way biden wins against trump is if the economy collapses before the election, and even then, it's a close one.

[Guardian Enzo]

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

[coded321]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

The idea that we have no future with either biden or trump has stressed me out to the point of zero sleep since last night, so yeah i'm very grumpy, and very depressed right now. I'm very pissed right now, at the old black voters who voted biden simply because he was obama's vp, the youth voters who didn't show up to support bernie, the dnc and so called moderates coalescing around biden, who is basically trump lite, because of so called "electability", just to screw the progressive movement.

[Guardian Enzo]

And now the racist crap kicks in.

The idea that Sanders - who can't even muster enough support in a Democratic primary campaign to be nominated - could possibly win a general election is laughable. His coalition has shrunk since '16, and it was too small then.

What's really striking is how Trump-like much of what comes out of the Sanders camp is, from the candidate on down. How much anger, how much hate, the racism and misogyny. The fact is that Trump can be nominated because that kind of reactionary populism has a much larger footprint in the Republican party than the Democratic. Sanders has pretty much maxed it out and it's not big enough (thank goodness) to carry the day.