(L) Battery

[Budweineken]

Originally Posted by karice67

Bullying is a very real problem in Japan, so I think that quite a few people would have problems with it being called a "trope."

Save me the faux outrage please.

Bullying is very real in every country in the world. Doesn't mean that every story need feature it. Calling it a trope has nothing to do about it being real or not, being abundant or not. For good or bad doesn't make it any less of a plot device, one that is used constantly (partly because yes, bullying is very real and wide spread).

Nothing wrong with it, just didn't work for me personally in this series for some reason. Nothing more, nothing less.

With the coach already getting on Takumi's case (which is another trope device, coach vs. player thing), not so soon after the lazy/bad club vs. the new hard working newbie trope. I thought introducing this aspect was a bit too much for me. In a series that was presenting things in fresh manner, it was a bit jarring seeing all these common plot devices here again.

Not that is bad, or good, or whatever. Was simply hoping for something more creative to push the drama. I know I'm being unfair, but that was my hope.

Nothing to worry myself over though, just an observation of what I'd would've liked to see.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Budweineken

Save me the faux outrage please.

Bullying is very real in every country in the world. Doesn't mean that every story need feature it. Calling it a trope has nothing to do about it being real or not, being abundant or not. For good or bad doesn't make it any less of a plot device, one that is used constantly (partly because yes, bullying is very real and wide spread).

Nothing wrong with it, just didn't work for me personally in this series for some reason. Nothing more, nothing less.

With the coach already getting on Takumi's case (which is another trope device, coach vs. player thing), not so soon after the lazy/bad club vs. the new hard working newbie trope. I thought introducing this aspect was a bit too much for me. In a series that was presenting things in fresh manner, it was a bit jarring seeing all these common plot devices here again.

Not that is bad, or good, or whatever. Was simply hoping for something more creative to push the drama. I know I'm being unfair, but that was my hope.

Nothing to worry myself over though, just an observation of what I'd would've liked to see.

Then save us the faux literary superiority that is implied by the word "trope" please.

If you think it's overused and thus doesn't work for you, fine. But not everyone is going to agree, so why not just be honest from the start and admit that it just doesn't work for you, instead of implying (through the use of the word "trope") that it shouldn't work for everyone else as well?

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I'm not trying to start an argument, honestly. I'd just like to point out how the use of certain words in certain ways can come across to others in a very negative manner.

[Budweineken]

Originally Posted by karice67

Then save us the faux literary superiority that is implied by the word "trope" please.

If you think it's overused and thus doesn't work for you, fine. But not everyone is going to agree, so why not just be honest from the start and admit that it just doesn't work for you, instead of implying (through the use of the word "trope") that it shouldn't work for everyone else as well?

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I'm not trying to start an argument, honestly. I'd just like to point out how the use of certain words in certain ways can come across to others in a very negative manner.

I actually did all that, you simply deleted portions of my post in your quote.

I just call things for what they are, for good or bad. The use of bullies is very much a trope. And again, it's fine. It just didn't work for me personally in this case, as I mentioned in my earlier post which you seemed to overlook.

I'll expand also, that something is a trope doesn't mean that it's bad or anything, it is what it is. In actuality, I have nothing against something being a trope or not, just this particular one in this particular instance I wasn't feeling it. So that something is a trope it's not to be taken as a negative, just something that simply is. Some use it as a signal that something is bad, but that's really not me.

But I know where you're coming from, like the whole Mary Sue and Gary Stu arguments and whatever people use to put some series down as bad and what not. So I know why the resistance. Just the same, I don't care for political correctness, hence why I got a bit defensive.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Stark700

Also, the vice captain seems to really dislike Takumi more and more. Wonder what he's thinking...

Something like "he showed everyone my inferiority as a catcher" and "I'm going to lose my spot on the lineup".


I wonder if it's really hard to coach Takumi? He doesn't need to be motivated or even watched that closely. As long as you've got a good rationale for what you ask of him, he'll do whatever.

What is no doubt horrible is coaching a team with him in it.

[Budweineken]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Something like "he showed everyone my inferiority as a catcher" and "I'm going to lose my spot on the lineup".


I wonder if it's really hard to coach Takumi? He doesn't need to be motivated or even watched that closely. As long as you've got a good rationale for what you ask of him, he'll do whatever.

What is no doubt horrible is coaching a team with him in it.

In general it's difficult, but it could go either way. He can be the easiest as well if you play your card rights. Good communication is a must to make it work, we've yet to see that. i doubt we will regardless on that regard. We'll have to see how much the new "teach him to have fun" strategy works out.

He reminds me a bit of Rajon Rondo, but that said, Takumi seems to be willing to go along with whatever the coach says as long as it's baseball related, so maybe not all that much. But the personality trait is certainly there, and the way of how they interact with the world.

[Benigmatica]

Episode 5:
Well, looks like Nobunishi and his fellow senior club members have gone too far after whipping Harada. Now, seems that the principal stopped the baseball club's activities because of this incident!

Of course, it's not like Takumi Harada will just sit around and do nothing as he wants to play baseball. Let's hope that things will get better on the next episode!

[Anh_Minh]

"We're committed to ensuring an incident like this will never happen again", where "incident" is "someone reporting an instance of bullying".

[Stark700]

Episode 5

Oh wow, shit got real. I think this time, the other guys took it a bit far against Takumi when tormenting him. And hell, I think they even want to cut his hair themselves (since the coach previously wanted him to..)

Glad to see Go and Takumi's relationship improve even more. Good episode again.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

"We're committed to ensuring an incident like this will never happen again", where "incident" is "someone reporting an instance of bullying".

Exactly.

Battery revealed its true intentions with this episode - it's putting the rigid inflexibility of Japanese society and child-rearing on trial. The way it punishes individuality, the way it treats youngsters as the property of their elders to do with as they please, the joylessness of its youth sports system.

[Budweineken]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Exactly.

Battery revealed its true intentions with this episode - it's putting the rigid inflexibility of Japanese society and child-rearing on trial. The way it punishes individuality, the way it treats youngsters as the property of their elders to do with as they please, the joylessness of its youth sports system.

I was again disappointed that they went through with this whole bullying drama again, but when we got to the principal and how they decided to deal with it then things improved for me since that angle was interesting to witness.

So that said, in that context, I'm glad they went through this. Looking forward to seeing how it's handled.

I'm surprised that Takumi showed restraint with the principal, I thought he was going to explode there. That said, also surprised that they didn't threaten the principal with going to the police, since you know, it's what the principal wants to avoid the most.

[Anh_Minh]

Involving the police would get the team shut down for sure. Takumi, as the victim, should have just explained he didn't care if the perpetrators didn't get punished as long as the team could go on normally (with maybe the perpetrators "voluntarily withdrawing from the team to focus on their studies" or something). But he's not exactly the calm negotiator type. Which would be a lot to ask kids their age anyway.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Exactly.

Battery revealed its true intentions with this episode - it's putting the rigid inflexibility of Japanese society and child-rearing on trial. The way it punishes individuality, the way it treats youngsters as the property of their elders to do with as they please, the joylessness of its youth sports system.

The fact that they were having this conversation with just the kids and none of their parents present, or at least arranging a meeting with said parents is also telling. Takumi was essentially assaulted. I would like to think that's something his parents would want to know.

[Stark700]

Interesting this episode this week...

Honestly, I'm not surprised that Nobunishi quit but I wonder if the show has plans for him in the future. Takumi should really try improve the relationship he has with his mother though.

[Pen3]

I don't get Takumi, he doesn't let his mom touch his shoulder because he is a pitcher. At the same time he doesn't mind getting in fights that could potentially injure his arm, especially them knowing hes a pitcher. Does he hate her, but trying to love her, or just doesn't know how to express it. She clearly understands that baseball is everything to him.

[PreSage]

I find Takumi to be an interesting character because his actions are so confusing. He seems quite simple on the outside, but I can't quite understand why or where his attitude comes from. Why does he have such a bad relationship with his mother? Why does he socially isolate himself but focus so narrowly on baseball? I really want to understand his point of view on things.

Also, I can't help but feel that this story will end up being a tragedy or something (the melancholy OP and ED doesn't help either). It always has a heavy, melancholy atmosphere in every episode. And the way Takumi acts makes me think he doesn't have much time to do what he wants to do or something along that line.

[Budweineken]

Originally Posted by Pen3

I don't get Takumi, he doesn't let his mom touch his shoulder because he is a pitcher. At the same time he doesn't mind getting in fights that could potentially injure his arm, especially them knowing hes a pitcher. Does he hate her, but trying to love her, or just doesn't know how to express it. She clearly understands that baseball is everything to him.

I don't think what occurred this past episode with the mother was merely about her touching his shoulder. Though he's had similar reactions like that before (like with the coach, etc.), I got more of a feeling that it had to do with him recalling the abuse at that very moment. Yes, the grandfather rationalized that it was about the pitcher's shoulder, but I think there was something more to it... she was digging at the moment about the problem with the baseball team as it was. Maybe he still has some bruises.

That aside, I don't see why people find it so difficult to understand that a person doesn't want to get touched, and as an extension, people invading their personal space. Not wanting to be touched has nothing to do with whether he loves her or not. Some people are simply uncomfortable with people touching them, nothing more and nothing less. All we've seen from Takumi so far is that he falls into that category. Some people find comfort being surrounded by people and more physical exchanges, Takumi is simply the opposite on that regard.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by Budweineken

That aside, I don't see why people find it so difficult to understand that a person doesn't want to get touched, and as an extension, people invading their personal space. Not wanting to be touched has nothing to do with whether he loves her or not. Some people are simply uncomfortable with people touching them, nothing more and nothing less. All we've seen from Takumi so far is that he falls into that category. Some people find comfort being surrounded by people and more physical exchanges, Takumi is simply the opposite on that regard.

Umm smacking his moms hands and yelling at her "don't touch me" is not just a person who doesn't like to be touched, sure to strangers or colleagues, but your mom? I don't like to be touched by my grandparents either and i would just walk away and say politely, i wouldn't smack her. It might be like that within your family, but i dont think its healthy or normal.

[Budweineken]

Originally Posted by Pen3

Umm smacking his moms hands and yelling at her "don't touch me" is not just a person who doesn't like to be touched, sure to strangers or colleagues, but your mom? I don't like to be touched by my grandparents either and i would just walk away and say politely, i wouldn't smack her. It might be like that within your family, but i dont think its healthy or normal.

As I said, there were more things going into that scene that exacerbated his already dislike to being touched as it is. He was recently abused for starters, Mom began asking question about what happened with the team (which he clearly didn't want to talk about or recall), later taunting him about him having nothing without baseball (something you described as "She clearly understands that baseball is everything to him")... it was an accumulation, maybe even bruised still, of things that got under his skin on top of his aversion of being touched.

No one said it had to be healthy or "normal" (whatever that means), just understandable. It simply is, and easily workable if they cared to understand each other (particularly the mom) and as I mentioned it says nothing about the like or dislike for his mom, which was what you were alluding to in the first place. He's different, everyone is aware he's different, the mother knows he's different... don't expect to play with the same rules with him and get "normal" results.

I mean just the fact that he was recently abused + doesn't like being touched is reason enough to understand his reaction as is.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by Budweineken

As I said, there were more things going into that scene that exacerbated his already dislike to being touched as it is. He was recently abused for starters, Mom began asking question about what happened with the team (which he clearly didn't want to talk about or recall), later taunting him about him having nothing without baseball (something you described as "She clearly understands that baseball is everything to him")... it was an accumulation, maybe even bruised still, of things that got under his skin on top of his aversion of being touched.

What makes you think he would reacted any different even if he wasn't recently bullied? As far as i can tell, he knew what he was getting himself into. Literally just asking for it. He clearly doesn't want to talk about the team? When has he even want to talk about anything? I also didn't think she was taunting him because joining the baseball club was the only interest that he has shown. He should have expected that impression. It's like trying to break ice with a stranger and all you know was the only thing he wanted in life was to stop using drugs.

No one said it had to be healthy or "normal" (whatever that means), just understandable. It simply is, and easily workable if they cared to understand each other (particularly the mom) and as I mentioned it says nothing about the like or dislike for his mom, which was what you were alluding to in the first place. He's different, everyone is aware he's different, the mother knows he's different... don't expect to play with the same rules with him and get "normal" results.

I mean just the fact that he was recently abused + doesn't like being touched is reason enough to understand his reaction as is.

Not normal as in different from literally every character in the show.

But that "understandable" is a double standard. Why can't he understand the mass majority? Why do they have to have to understand him when he is the one that wants to join their sports club, that has a deep culture and history. It is an easy workaround, but he is the one that is making it harder because he doesn't want to open up. Your view is only on his side when he is basically just shutting himself out of everyone's lives, but wants to be on a team sport... he's lucky to have some talent.

[Budweineken]

Let me try to address as best as possible since you went on a few tangents I wasn't arguing and such.

Originally Posted by Pen3

What makes you think he would reacted any different even if he wasn't recently bullied? As far as i can tell, he knew what he was getting himself into. Literally just asking for it. He clearly doesn't want to talk about the team? When has he even want to talk about anything? I also didn't think she was taunting him because joining the baseball club was the only interest that he has shown. He should have expected that impression. It's like trying to break ice with a stranger and all you know was the only thing he wanted in life was to stop using drugs.

First, I haven't said he would've reacted any different. We don't know actually. All I said that in this particular case it was understandable regardless. I don't know in what world you'd think someone would act positively to someone being intrusive, after declaring you've been depressed, making observations of you looking weaker, and being reduced to a "without this you have nothing" observation. At best she lacked tact.

Not normal as in different from literally every character in the show.

OK, so we're reducing the world into the microcosm of what is represented in this anime and the few characters within it. Normal or not, it's actually not uncommon which is the gist of it.

But that "understandable" is a double standard. Why can't he understand the mass majority? Why do they have to have to understand him when he is the one that wants to join their sports club, that has a deep culture and history. It is an easy workaround, but he is the one that is making it harder because he doesn't want to open up. Your view is only on his side when he is basically just shutting himself out of everyone's lives, but wants to be on a team sport... he's lucky to have some talent.

Not sure what this has anything to do with the discussion we were having, but I'll just say that much of what you say in the post above is akin to victim blaming.

It's also like being angry and telling someone to speak faster who stutters because he has trouble getting through a statement.