F/SN UBW TV - Episode 15 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Nayrael

He could be the most intelligent person in the world and he would have still jumped there. It is a miracle he did not jump sooner seeing his personality.

I think he didn't jump earlier because Rin had him in an arm lock with her hand jammed down his mouth, or close to it!

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by GDB

No they didn't. Zero!Berserker was a supposed perfect counter and never got Gilgamesh to go any tougher than he did against this Berserker. Rider literally charged in a straight line, never pressuring Gil, and got strung up my Enkidu at the last second. Saber staggered at him and got axed a question. Heracles at least forced a massive use of GoB that we've never seen before, plus broke Enkidu.

Not to mention that Berserker here was handicapped by having to be a meat shield for Illya.

[Allium]

OK, that was undoubtedly the most emotional episode so far. I thought that, having read the VN and knowing what was going to happen, would lessen the impact of Illya's death. Nope.

The flashback is probably my favourite anime-original scene so far. I didn't expect it to be that long, but it did a good job in delving into Illya and Berserker's relationship and the Einzbern's magic. The only (minor) downside for me was that parts of Berserker's fight were not shown or cut out.

Other stuff:
- The anime really toned down Gil's douchebaggery.
- I felt that Shirou trying to help Illya was a stand-in for my feelings at that moment, and Rin holding him back added to the intensity of the situation.

Overall, that was a good feels' trip. Can't wait for Lancer!

[Esclair]

Are there any 'real' Einzberns left or are there only homunculus left to do the 'will' of the Einzberns.

[The Green One]

Got to love the people who call Shirou stupid in this episode conveniently forget he's just not mentally wired with a normal person's mindset. Watching what looks like a little girl get butchered and do nothing about it even in the face of someone who can just casually slaughter him is just not how the guy ticks. Not saying what he did is a GOOD idea but I can understand why he reacts this way. His mindset is a well established thing.

[Ernietheracefan]

Many members in a certain anime website are going nuts.

Originally Posted by Esclair

Are there any 'real' Einzberns left or are there only homunculus left to do the 'will' of the Einzberns.

I afraid no.

[Rava]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Got to love the people who call Shirou stupid in this episode conveniently forget he's just not mentally wired with a normal person's mindset. Watching what looks like a little girl get butchered and do nothing about it even in the face of someone who can just casually slaughter him is just not how the guy ticks. Not saying what he did is a GOOD idea but I can understand why he reacts this way. His mindset is a well established thing.

It's not out of character for him, but that doesn't make it any more (edit: less) of a bone-headed move, as witnessed by poor Rin trying to keep him down.

[Kanon]

Not as heart wrenching as I thought it would be, but Ufotable made Illya's death more poignant than it was in the VN. Not only thanks to the changes in her death scene, but also the flashbacks that came before that helped make us realize why she turned out the way she did.

Berserker making Gil shit his pants was a nice touch, though in the end, he didn't even manage to put as much as a scratch on him.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Acht was an ass thinking only to win the grail war.

Grail-kun is a bastard making Illya suffer like that. Presenting her the lie that Kerry doesn't care about her by showing Kerry killing an illusion version of her.

All those poor maids deaths made Illya jaded in making friends. The Einzberns allowing Sella and Leyritts emotions made them bond with Illya that they are like sisters. No wonder Illya lost it when Gil killed them.

Hercules protected Illya not because she is his master but as a little girl that needs protecting.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Witch of Uncertainty

Oh my god that was so beautiful. I am in pain. And that ending song was really beautiful.
Question, though: She saw the corrupted irisviel. I know that the Homunculuses of Einzbern can communicate with each other even beyond death, but I thought that Irisviel was 'cleansed' after death. Is she simply still corrupted by the grail? And will be for all eternity? That's kind of sad.

I think it is just the Great Grail communicating with Ilya while using Irisviel's form.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Esclair

Are there any 'real' Einzberns left or are there only homunculus left to do the 'will' of the Einzberns.

Even the oldest known Einzberns were homunculi, but the ones designed to succeed the family headship still consider themselves human. I believe it is also a matter of pride to them that they operate just like any other clan of mages, without seeking immortality or throwing away their humanity.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by Jerseykid

Having ilya die before she got the chance to talk with shirou seems an epic failure in plot writing

oops left out "die"

Why is it an "epic failure" if she died before she had the chance? Can you elaborate? Saying that something is a failure without explaining the reasons behind your statement is pretty much hating it for no reason. Therefore I ask for you to give me additional reasons that made you think that it was a "epic failure, in terms of writing" and then we can have a proper, constructive discussion.

[Ernietheracefan]

My reactions are: manly tears, the silent version of the ED gave me goosebumps, Zouken's German cousin is a jerkass, and Miyu's brother is not happy.

R.I.P Sanya Ilya, we'll see you in HF & Zwei Herz.

P.S: It could be more heartbreaking if Ilya fighting alongside Herc in Kaleid Ruby mode.

[Jerseykid]

Originally Posted by Levani

Why is it an "epic failure" if she died before she had the chance? Can you elaborate? Saying that something is a failure without explaining the reasons behind your statement is pretty much hating it for no reason. Therefore I ask for you to give me additional reasons that made you think that it was a "epic failure, in terms of writing" and then we can have a proper, constructive discussion.

Because they would have so much to talk about and it could add so much to the plot to have them talk about it and I would hope make the show infinitely more interesting for me the viewer.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by Jerseykid

Because they would have so much to talk about and it could add so much to the plot to have them talk about it and I would hope make the show infinitely more interesting for me the viewer.

Yes, it could've but do you know the concept of tragedy? The fact that this could've happened and it would've been a really happy outcome is why Illya's death right here is this powerful. If her death didn't eliminate all these stuff, it wouldn't be as effective and we as the viewers wouldn't be this invested. It's a brilliant and cruel writing.

[Jerseykid]

Originally Posted by Levani

Yes, it could've but do you know the concept of tragedy? The fact that this could've happened and it would've been a really happy outcome is why Illya's death right here is this powerful. If her death didn't eliminate all these stuff, it wouldn't be as effective and we as the viewers wouldn't be this invested. It's a brilliant and cruel writing.

Well if you want to look at it that way, having her die in front of shirou after her and shirou have a talk I think would be even more powerful
There's your tragedy.

[Levani]

I don't agree with that.

"My tragedy" you say? What a confronting attitude you got there.

[John117xCortana]

Is it me or did Gilgamesh show a residue of respect for Berserker's last act?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Esclair

Are there any 'real' Einzberns left or are there only homunculus left to do the 'will' of the Einzberns.

Old man Acht.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by GDB

Old man Acht.

This episode implied he's a homunculus himself though. Was it ever stated he's human?