F/SN UBW TV - Episode 6 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Verrueckter

I get that you're passionate about disliking the Good End, but there's nothing to disprove. Things like this are a matter of taste, if I like something there doesn't need to be an infallible logic or reasoning behind why I like it, I simply like it. I like it because it matches my tastes, you are implying that one would have to be an idiot or insane to prefer the Good End, which is quite insulting. Anime and Visual Novels are entertainment, what entertains me and how I choose to be entertained is up to me, nobody gets to tell me that I am "incorrect" it the way I enjoy entertainment.

If you don't like something, simply state that you don't like it, there is no need to use insults to people who do not share your like or dislike.

The reason I like Good End is because I like the idea of Rin, Shirou, and Saber living quietly in Fuyuki. It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside, and that appeals to me. Appealing to my emotions is all I need from any medium for me to like it. In the end this is just entertainment, all I need is to be entertained.

Yep, personal preference and I found that the good ending includes a resolution for Saber quite well. She will look over Shirou together with Tohsaka so that he doesn't become Archer. While it remains unsaid in the good ending (and I personally don't see why Ufotable couldn't include it WITH the good ending), she can always decide that she will end her cycle as a heroic spirit after Shirou is dead (hopefully of old age). I think that the conversations during UBW route showed pretty well that Saber had seen the folly of her own dream to change the past, so I really didn't need the additional information given by the "true" ending that Saber would rectify her mistake. It was clear from her reactions while the route was going on, so there was no need for a dramatic speech.

As for Archer, I also found that his resolution was well handled with the good ending. While he returns to the cycle, he understood that his plan to kill Shirou was a bad idea and he leaves Tohsaka with the task of preventing this Shirou of becoming like him. It is left unclear if Archer can be erased out of existence, but we are left with a sense of hope.

[HtwoN]

Hzzz, the moment people pull out the card of "personal preference" is when you know you should give up on persuading them.

I won't dig more into this. Just wait and see.

[magnuskn]

Well, I gave other reasons, but whatever. I'm not thinking I can persuade you, anyway, and getting the good ending is a longshot, too. I'm well aware how the preferences of Japanese anime producers are in terms of how to end their shows, i.e. bittersweet endings before anything else.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Nayrael

If there was evidence that she was raped, it is likely that only parents, authorities and teachers would know about it and they would not say it to others. For many, getting raped is not something you want others to know.
If you meant bruises and such, they would not appear because she would have no energy to resist because Rider sucked her dry.

When there is rape. ALWAYS there will be a leak of info. ALWAYS.

And knowing how japan ostrazices women who are victims of rape or some kind of incident... then no. It doesn't seems to be the case for Ayako.

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

If you really want to know:

Spoiler for Heaven's Feel:

He will get killed there.

Another reason why HF is best route .

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

Uh, no. Counter Guardian is a variant of Heroic Spirits.

From what I remember, people who became object of worship with their own power become HS, while those that signed a contract with the world//Alaya become CG.

Cleaning up messes is Counter Guardian's job. HS generally just stay in the Throne of Heroes.

Also, iirc, Heroic Spirits with very high divinity can be called as Gaia's counter force as opposed to Alaya's.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

Uh, no. Counter Guardian is a variant of Heroic Spirits.

From what I remember, people who became object of worship with their own power become HS, while those that signed a contract with the world//Alaya become CG.

Cleaning up messes is Counter Guardian's job. HS generally just stay in the Throne of Heroes.

You forgot to mention the part where people summon heroic spirits when they're in great need. v_v

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Please don't project your biases onto other people. Saying that "anyone with a sane mind" has to prefer the "True End" is really quite insulting and untrue.

Originally Posted by Verrueckter

You are implying that one would have to be an idiot or insane to prefer the Good End, which is quite insulting.

So HtwoN saying you'd have to be insane to prefer the Good End is insulting, but DragonKing0117's claim that only insane people would have a problem with ufotable choosing the Good End... isn't? Because that's what prompted HtwoN to say such a thing in the first place.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, I gave other reasons, but whatever. I'm not thinking I can persuade you, anyway, and getting the good ending is a longshot, too. I'm well aware how the preferences of Japanese anime producers are in terms of how to end their shows, i.e. bittersweet endings before anything else.

If they choose to go with UBW True (and I'm confident they will since they're taking this adaptation quite seriously), I don't think it'll be because it's bittersweet, but rather and simply because, as the name implies, it's the true ending. Whereas UBW Good is the only ending in the entire Visual Novel that's labeled a "Good End" (all the others are called "True" or "Normal"), meaning they didn't even bother to try and hide its nature as a wish fulfillment, fanservice-oriented ending (which anyone's free to prefer regardless, of course).

But if you really believe they'll choose UBW True only because it's bittersweet, then I suggest you stick around until the Heaven's Feel movie(s), because if it's the bittersweet tone of the endings that matters, then they'll definitely go with HF Normal. Personally though, I'm confident they'll go with HF True as well, because it's not the tone of the endings that matters, but rather how well they conclude the main plot threads of their respective route. And with the main plot thread of UBW being Shirou and Archer's clashing ideals, there's no question in my mind that UBW True does a much better and more thorough job of delivering a proper conclusion, since it actually shows us the answer Archer arrived at, unlike UBW Good, which instead shows us... that Shirou, Rin and Saber had threesomes happily ever after?

Even considering all the pandering Saber's received thus far (such as changing the Berserker fight so that she's a threat to him rather than Archer, when it was the exact opposite in the VN), for there to be any chance of her sticking around after the war in this anime, ufotable would have to, as GreyZone suggested, merge the two endings and include UBW True's epilogue for UBW Good to be even worthy of consideration as an ending. Because there's no way they're omitting Archer's "I was not wrong" monologue when that was sorta the whole point of the route.

[Jerseykid]

Originally Posted by GDB

That was Rider.

Well I was totally fooled there since she had no chariot

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Even considering all the pandering Saber's received thus far (such as changing the Berserker fight so that she's a threat to him rather than Archer, when it was the exact opposite in the VN), for there to be any chance of her sticking around after the war in this anime, ufotable would have to, as GreyZone suggested, merge the two endings and include UBW True's epilogue for UBW Good to be even worthy of consideration as an ending. Because there's no way they're omitting Archer's "I was not wrong" monologue when that was sorta the whole point of the route.

Well, just saying, but I don't see anything preventing that from happening.

Also, threesomes are a happy side effect of the good ending, having Saber stay around and being able to experience a happy life seems much more important to me. Although I am sure the three main characters appreciate the threesomes.

[Thess]

The "good ending" isn't good for Saber. She remains suffering inside, not reaching to her strength to move forward and be at peace with herself and her deeds. So it remains the possibility she would continue her self-destructive search unlike the true end when she will return to the Hill. All seen by the rose-tinted glasses of someone who didn't actually understand her. Shirou didn't understand her in UBW, the one who actually did was Archer.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Thess

The "good ending" isn't good for Saber. She remains suffering inside, not reaching to her strength to move forward and be at peace with herself and her deeds. So it remains the possibility she would continue her self-destructive search unlike the true end when she will return to the Hill. All seen by the rose-tinted glasses of someone who didn't actually understand her. Shirou didn't understand her in UBW, the one who actually did was Archer.

As I said, the UBW route had several scenes where it was evident that she was evident that she was reconsidering her chosen path. I don't need a giant chiron spelling this out to me at the end to make this even clearer.

[orion]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

As I said, the UBW route had several scenes where it was evident that she was evident that she was reconsidering her chosen path. I don't need a giant chiron spelling this out to me at the end to make this even clearer.

But this isn't Saber's route. It's Rin's and Shirou's and Archer's route. Saber had her route done already. I'm here for Rin's route true ending, not a harem ending.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by orion

But this isn't Saber's route. It's Rin's and Shirou's and Archer's route. Saber had her route done already. I'm here for Rin's route true ending, not a harem ending.

this, this, and more this.

Some of the Saber fans wont be happy until they get a happy ending for Saber in every route... It's not about her in 2 of the 3 routes.

[bhl88]

It seems we got a little glimpse of Caster's origins.... A golden cup, a knife and some guy.

[Rev Okkin]

Originally Posted by bhl88

It seems we got a little glimpse of Caster's origins.... A golden cup, a knife and some guy.

Don't forget the ship and the guy was carrying something golden~

The whole True vs Good ending thing... If Saber were to find solace later (Good) rather than sooner (True) then for emotional impact, it would be better to have her find solace in returning to her time and making her peace there rather than making peace in a land that is not hers and in a time that is not hers.
That said, I remember finding this fanfic (can't remember if it was in beast's lair) that showed Saber struggling a bit with her past in the Good End but makes her peace with it after a good talk with Rin (though Shirou wasn't there).

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by orion

But this isn't Saber's route. It's Rin's and Shirou's and Archer's route. Saber had her route done already. I'm here for Rin's route true ending, not a harem ending.

Wait, so you think that Rin is not happy with the arrangement she herself initiated in the good end?

Originally Posted by justinstrife

this, this, and more this.

Some of the Saber fans wont be happy until they get a happy ending for Saber in every route... It's not about her in 2 of the 3 routes.

Who says that I am someone who prefers Saber to Rin? After all, Rin herself chose the good ending. She could just as well have let Saber go after the war was over. She is just as attracted to Saber as Shirou is.

So, um, I don't know why you guys want Rin to have a less happy ending than the maximum of what she could get.

[The Green One]

Why is it so difficult to accept that both endings are valid? Both endings provide closure in their own way. The only thing left is if an individual viewer finds it personally acceptable or not. There's no right or wrong ending here, both are valid. People are getting a little too bent out of shape over this.

[orion]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Wait, so you think that Rin is not happy with the arrangement she herself initiated in the good end?



Who says that I am someone who prefers Saber to Rin? After all, Rin herself chose the good ending. She could just as well have let Saber go after the war was over. She is just as attracted to Saber as Shirou is.

So, um, I don't know why you guys want Rin to have a less happy ending than the maximum of what she could get.

Because a harem ending is for people who cannot make a decision. Rin is very decisive. I can only conclude that the Good ending was for Saber fans.

[orion]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Wait, so you think that Rin is not happy with the arrangement she herself initiated in the good end?



Who says that I am someone who prefers Saber to Rin? After all, Rin herself chose the good ending. She could just as well have let Saber go after the war was over. She is just as attracted to Saber as Shirou is.

So, um, I don't know why you guys want Rin to have a less happy ending than the maximum of what she could get.

Because a harem ending is for people who cannot make a decision. Rin is very decisive. I can only conclude that the Good ending was for Saber fans.

[BloodyKitty]

Originally Posted by orion

Because a harem ending is for people who cannot make a decision. Rin is very decisive. I can only conclude that the Good ending was for Saber fans.

I have tons of trouble believing this bold line but whatever...

Personally while I prefer True End, it's not like Good End doesn't work if ufo rewrites some parts to include better closure for the main characters of this route like the True End did, and add some better meaning to Saber's decision to stay. If they could ever pull it off then fine.