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Originally Posted by ippus
Actually Mirage's been covering Hayate's ass in most of the scenes prior to his epi-obligatory power ups. I'd list them all but honestly it would be easier for you to rewatch the amount of times she screams his name and shoots something down. They're not being praised as OMG MIRAGE YOU SAVED ME DAHLING~ But it's there nonetheless. She might not have big roles but she has always had his back. I'd honestly argue that's the only reason his newbie ass isn't dead right now-- asides from main character super powers that is.
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Screaming someone's name =/= useful. Are you for real? I do remember getting shot by a Bogue's drone, before he goes to KEEL WALKURE as usual once (and of course Hayate saved the day).
All she's done is gawking and screaming HAYATE/DELTA (INSERT NUMBER HERE) and being as useless as a piece of furniture, unless she follows Hayate's lead in anything. After episode 13, she got even worse. It's not her fault, but the writing will never make her do anything, but it's jarring to see her vow and your pretentions that she's useful after how she usually vanishes.
It's hilarious you even pretend 'she's too good' for the two characters who, along Walkure and Messer have done actually meaningful in the show, not just from their character's developments, but also the plot and other people. Characters who openly expressed their concern about others and were thinking in helping while she was embarrassed by showing skin near Hayate.
Right now, Freyja and Hayate are dealing with a lot of issues: Hayate found out his father might committed genocide and killed Freyja's parents, Freyja that her reason to sing might be a lie and she has been used as weapon and nearly killed Hayate and would probably kill him and other people in the future. How are these problems less serious than Mirage feeling sorry for herself she's not as awesome as Max and Milia? Oh please. The characters have right to commit mistakes to make them realistic, if they didn't, I would dislike them. They have really good reasons to finally get sick of all. Mirage has never suffered any real trial yet.
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Eventually that dynamic becomes more equal with him watching her back as well but then she'd move on to whip out the eject catch and the Freyja catch so I'd comfortably say she wasn't just doing things ONCE. Helping them- more specifically Hayate has frankly been a consistent character trait of Mirage's.
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There's hardly dynamic between them. Because Freyja and Hayate have interacted and done things outside their triangle dynamic, while Mirage exists only for the triangle dynamic which is the problem of her as a character (as I listed above). She exists only to move and shake the triangle sometimes, and that gives her a limited role. While Hayate and Freyja have ties with the whole cast and plot. Sure, right now they are closed up because unfortunately their relationship takes priority (as you know, "the key" of Macross Delta), however they have been interacting and growing bonds with everyone for 20 episodes. What about Mirage?
Secondly, she's still his superior and 'mentor', they aren't peers or equals in the hierarchy. I don't feel her relationship to those two is on equal footing, meta wise or in the show.
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I just remembered, wasn't it just assumed that Loli-king's song was affecting all of them? I mean it was blasting to both friendlies and enemies alike. I'm too lazy to check on it right now but regardless why bother put in a screen of her when there is enough going on already? There's enough legitimate reason for her to have not been able to save Hayate (And even then wouldn't he have to have been capable of ejecting first?) anyway and I really doubt that was important given he doesn't seem to have any lasting injuries anyway (....to which I'd also like to ask: ?????????????????????)
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Heinz isn't a Loli, he's a boy. No, it was only the Windermerians who got affected. Something happened to their runes (overload). Similarly to what happened to Hayate.
You're also mistaking this as an attack to Mirage as character. I'm not blaming Mirage over this incident. I DO blame the writers who are trying to make us suspense our disbelief when they haven't properly set her up to be a successful protector. Because they make Delta squad vanish on the thin air (sometimes along the rest of the Aerial Knights, but hey! This time they had an excuse!) because Keith and Hayate (and before him, Messer, but ironically when Messer was alive, we saw more about them!) are fighting. Mirage if she appears is to gasp his name uselessly.
It's really annoying. Because all Walkure show to be useful, not just Freyja and Mikumo. Each of them is allowed to have a role, even if their fold receptors aren't as amazing. Kaname is a good leader. Makina a mechanic. Reina a hacker. They are the only team in Delta which works as an unit, even if it's not perfect. It's really obnoxious that Delta Squad is "Hayate, and those three guys" now (unless of course, Mirage needs a romantic moment with him).
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As for Kaname "Saving" Freyja, if you're now going to say that Mirage should have been watching closely at the stage AS WELL to notice the singing girl is possessed to stop her then I really think you should reassess the bar you've been measuring Mirage's character worth on cus that's way too unreasonable. Even the Walkure's only knew something was up because of Kaname's data and that took a while to register as well.
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My point is that they didn't even bother to show Mirage realizing something was wrong with them. But they did bother to give us a jealous/brooding/neutral/interpret it your way shot of her when she saw they made up. That's what I mean they don't bother with her outside the triangle stuff. As a character, she's sorely lacking and she's supposed to be a main character.
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She was lead singing duty with Mikumo ever since she entered even if she could barely keep up with their activities at the start and was often a cause of much frustration over how her abilities happen at a whim. There was no point in which she was specifically promoted to that role, they just stuck her there from the start. Given how little the rest of the three got to shine during that time despite having been there longer I'd call her a center.
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Freyja's role is to boost Mikumo's fold waves and sync with Hayate, Kaname also declared she's the 'lead' and rival of them. They had been experimenting with them since they joined, by the way. That's why all Walkure kept their sights on them each time they interacted and Mikumo was pleased when they first synchronized: their chips was for this to happen. Novels is more straightforward in this than the show in this aspect (with Mirage referring them as "test subjects" and collecting data behind their backs too, she's a bit more interesting than what the bland show protrayal) but they have given you enough hints that they are good as unit, because of their resonance.
Granted, Freyja can sing without Hayate, but they boost each other's skills by their fold receptors compatibility. It's frankly understandable that she wouldn't sing after she nearly kills him and has been told her actual objective for singing is impossible because singing is a weapon. She needed time to search a reason to sing AGAIN, without it, even if she sings, it won't work. It's like they forgot that she only powered up when she found her reason to sing and why was Mikumo guiding her to that answer.
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Well Freyja's a main character put into the spotlight who actually does very little with her role. She's a Windermere but she does butt nothing to connect us to what it might be important information to sympathize with the Windermere's plight as she literally doesn't care about anyone's circumstances. I know that sounds harsh but she was given chance after chance to bridge that gap and we really got nothing other than apple farming.
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Not only you sound harsh, inaccurate but you also sound ignorant about Windermere in general. I suppose it's expected if you saw some weird version of Delta where Mirage isn't just a piece of useless furniture who gasps Hayate's name unless they remember she exists for the triangle.
Apples are so important to them, that each of them plant an apple tree that 'grows' with them and they will 'continue' living on their place, as a prolonging their lives on this world. Apples are the most significant symbol for the planet (with the wind). So yes, apples are GODDMAN important thing to bring up, just because you cannot culturally grasp it, it doesn't mean they don't (and the show does fail to address this outside a magazine unfortunately). Even Herman agreed with Freyja's points, he's just a knight, doing his duty. Freyja does understand Windermere's plight. She listened to Cassim's points, she listened to the Knights, but she disagreed with their ways. Did you fall asleep to those episodes or something? Cassim doesn't hate Freyja, and thanks to her, Hayate could interact with a Aerial Knight on good terms.
She doesn't understand or cares about anyone's circumstances? Are you watching this show? Who was the one moved to act on behalf of that cat daddy varred? Who was observant to stop Hayate from killing him and powered up because of his kids? Who was helping Chuck's siblings tirelessly because they lost their sister so they wouldn't feel sad? Who put aside her pain of losing her parents to sing to make her townspeople feel better? Who understood Messer's feelings and why he did things when she barely interacted with him, expressing his love to fly with his comrades in his funeral? Oh right, Freyja. She also noticed Mikumo's song changed a little, because she's really empathetic and cares about others.
If anything Freyja has been portrayed as "too pure/good for this world" and if she wasn't the main character, it'll be a big death flag (still could be). She hasn't been 'resolving' anything BECAUSE if she did the plot would end sooner.
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Her backstory so far has been a random throwaway line during her birthday episode, and as someone wanting to sing for the good of everyone she's been pretty preoccupied with Hayate alone.
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Uh -- what? Did you miss the whole "I'll sing for everyone and YOU" and Hayate's "I'll fly to protect Walkure and YOU". It takes two for tango. Freyja does care about Hayate, so what? At least she's showed empathy and concern about everyone else in many occasions.
Unlike Mirage whose world ends with Hayate and Freyja. Or Hayate who is even more narrowminded.
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Hell, she does so little with the Walkures that half the time they do things without her and she just sort of dips in to sing her part.
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Yeah, because at the wake of Messer's death wasn't she with them, training hard to become better instead of hanging around with Hayate? (Hayate looked for her and was watching over her too, saw how she fell and stood up to continue training). She regularly talks to Makina and Reina as we saw in early episodes (Hayate and Chuck also hang around). She's helping them with the refugee work after they left Ragna, she only excuses herself for lunch to go and seek...Mirage to thanks her. We haven't seen Mirage do anything for people, but we do see her blushing and hesitating to help them while their lives were endangered because oh no my boobs will press Hayate's back!
Again, which Macross Delta have you watched?
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While Freyja and Hayate have the comraderie unit going on I can't honestly say the same for the Walkures and Freyja. It never really feels like a group. Has she ever backed someone in her team up when they are down? Has she blocked damage? How much does she even know about her team mates and how often does she initiate the contact? It just all feels weird.
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The main relationship of the show is Hayate and Freyja, not talking about romance, so it'll be the most important one showcased. But thinking Walkure isn't a good team or that Freyja doesn't care is really watching Bizarre Delta.
First, they have a whole manga for themselves which focuses on their inner group interaction (in case you didn't know). It also adds more about their backstories and in between scenes of the show.
Secondly, she's their youngest member, so yes, they feel like protecting her because they are older and senpai-tachi. But Freyja, for example, in episode 7, she immediately stops her running of the ruins because she heard Mikumo singing. She smiles and stops singing briefly when Kaname joins them to their send off Messer, as if she knew and was expecting her to let it all out. Mikumo knows her longer so of course she would talk to her. Makina and Reina came up with the idea of surprise birthday party, how did you figure they don't care? Walkure cares a lot about each others and is the only team in Delta which feels like a team.
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I also never said Mirage is THE MOST AWESOMEST WELL DEVELOPED GIRL EVER but I am saying her development isn't as bad as you keep touting it to be. Her major character point hasn't been dealt with at all but she's made references to it like how she thinks Hayate didn't follow in his father's footsteps because he chose it before knowing. When she was worrying about her promotion she hides off in a corner to figure it out alone and frankly I think it's safe to say that's kind of her written character flaw. She doesn't rely on anyone with her issues and people just assume she has it together. Nobody can just look at a heart on her head and be like, oh, she must be feeling sad or oh, she must be so happy right now. She can't sing a song and let people feel the colours of her heart with a dimensional crystal.
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So you're saying two scenes compensate when she's a main character? She's a badly developed character because she's supposed to be a main character and she's gotten near to zero interaction with the cast outside the triangle. Or get to do something actually relevant on her own. Not depending on the triangle to ride some scene.
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As for her lecture of the two I still consider fair because that's always been her role in the story, to be the one that puts everyone on track. She tried to do it when Freyja first heard about the Windermere aggression (Awkwardly so, while Hayate sort of bitched her out midway in her rambly attempt) Then to a better degree when Hayate killed a guy for her sake.
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You're..... saying that this is her role because of two scenes in the first episodes of the show? Can't you even take you seriously when that's the problem because Mirage hasn't consistently done this and needed to work her confident issues before actually do this to be organic on her character.
I have no problem with her lecture, I had a problem it wasn't a Mirage's development moment but a Mirage plot device to help Hayate and Freyja get along moment.
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Excuse me if I think she's a better character than the two main power characters who were arguing about who will quit during a war for the other's sake. Both had shown such a preoccupation for just each other that it honestly annoys the crap out of me.
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That's your problem honestly. I would not want Freyja to sing again until she figures out what is music for. I think you're misunderstanding fundamentally Freyja's character. She's not joining Walkure to turn her song against her people as a weapon. That's the opposite of what she wants. She wanted her song to reach people and make them happy, hopefully healing them of var and ending the conflict. That is also hurting Hayate on top of that is the icing of the cake, but her worries are far deeper than Hayate, who is just the visible representation of the problem Berger pointed out so the immediate concern. The proof that her song is a weapon, you see. It's not just quiting because Hayate has to fly, but because she literally cannot sing for this matter, and yes Hayate won't be able to fly because she might kill him. It's not something you can easily handwave after the amount of pressure she's been getting nonstop in the last episodes.
She's not obliged to sing because they are at war. At all. Neither do Walkure. Walkure themselves are also acting up against Chaos and trying to snatch Mikumo out in the middle of the war. It's a lot bigger than keeping Mikumo in a fishbowl and Freyja unwilling to sing because it might kill or Var Hayate next. That's why the ED song didn't have Freyja's and Mikumo's vocals for us to wise up.
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Hayate's response SHOULD have been to reassure her that TRYING to SING in the controlled environment surrounded by her COMRADES so that they can FIND A GOOD SOLUTION as the best option since they are needed for even just the survival of their friends who will likely continue to fight on.
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They did make it sound like if the test failed, Hayate could get var or something worse. No pressure, huh? Honestly, after this episode, it seems that all Walkure might be quitting Chaos or at least cause a some internal drama. None of them are thrilled about the whole music is weapon angle. Love it or hate it, it's not what they signed up for. They already illegally broke in one of ther med ships to get Mikumo out.
Until his birthday present in episode 16, Freyja never once did sing directly for or at Hayate.
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