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View Poll Results: Mahouka - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 7 18.92%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 6 16.22%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 5 13.51%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 10.81%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 16.22%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 10.81%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 5.41%
3 out of 10 : Bad 3 8.11%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2014-06-24, 06:01   Link #61
kusabireika
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Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
@Chosen Hero

I know your comment is directed at Ickarium, but I'd like to clarify my position just in case some people might make assumptions about where I stand.

I am critical of the series, just not as critical as some of you for various reasons that I will not go into here. For example, some of the scenes leave me a little bemused (e.g. the accident scene on the way to the 9SC could have flowed much better - it left me wondering how in the world they had so much time to have such a long discussion; I was also somewhat amused by how we're expected to believe that Honoka and Shizuku are in Tatsuya's circle of friends, given that we didn't see them interact for something like five/six episodes).

However, I do think that LN readers should keep their complaints about things that were left out/could have been better done to the comparison thread in the LN forum - unless they are able to hide the fact that they are biased by their knowledge of what happens in the LN. Although this anime is an adaptation, it should first be evaluated as something that stands on its own, and to me and a few other viewers, such evaluations have been buried under complaints about 'what's missing' etc. LN readers have a forum where everyone will understand those complaints, so please have some courtesy for all the non-LN readers who still find the show interesting.
That's true however we can still complaint right? While we keep the spoiler ourself? That's why there is report button to send a complaint on certain poster who post an info before the new episode air? Like certain events and so forth

We only release that info after that episode ends and still put it in spoiler in respect in anime viewer

Maybe I offending so I will say I am sorry

We as ln reader love the series, we just sad that our favorite series/ln getting bad .....

I'm sorry if its confusing just ignore the post if you don't agree with it
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Old 2014-06-24, 06:32   Link #62
karice67
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^

(We are going way OT now, so I hope that this will be my last post on this subject here. Otherwise, we might have to ask for the discussion to be moved to the general thread.)

The reason I ask you and other LN readers to keep your complaints to the LN forums is because it's not just about spoilers. The constant allusions to 'scenes that are missing' or 'characteristics that are overemphasised' colour the way that anime-only viewers interpret what they see or don't see. Furthermore - and this is by far the more insidious problem - it contributes to the negative cycle where viewers looks for things they expect instead of trying to figure out what the anime is actually trying to do. E.g. some characterisation - people keep complaining that Mayumi's character hasn't come through enough: I will continue to argue that viewers can see the characterisation - if they actually treated this series as an animated piece of work instead of a text-based piece of work.

Let me give one example of how readers of the original work ruined a series for me by constantly alluding to what happened without actually 'spoiling' it:

Spoiler for reference to a certain manga that finished in 2011 (the anime also aired in 2011):


From what I can tell, LN novel readers are having a similar effect in that they're 'ruining the experience' of those viewers who might appreciate the themes of Mahouka otherwise. Or who might observe some of the subtleties of the anime if they didn't keep expecting far more obvious characterisation.

It really is up to you - from what I can see, all the complaints from LN readers and the vehemence with which some readers defend the LNs 'because the anime is getting it wrong' are just putting anime-only viewers off. Feel free to complain about production values, scenes that don't flow well etc etc here. But if you want at least some viewers to try the LN because it goes into the world of Mahouka 'so much better', then I strongly suggest keeping all references or allusions to the LN in the LN forum. People will read it if they are interested in the themes or in the characters - why not try highlighting those aspects when they show up in the anime (e.g. the last part of my post here), no matter what you think of how well or badly they have been represented?

I'm not going to say that this is an easy thing to do (it certainly takes a lot of effort on my part when I do it, which is why I didn't comment that much on the Chihayafuru anime as it was airing, for example). And I know that a lot of you probably don't want to bother, given what you wish the anime production team had done instead. But if that's the case, then please keep those complaints to the LN threads, because that's where they really belong.
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

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Last edited by karice67; 2014-06-25 at 07:01.
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Old 2014-06-24, 09:44   Link #63
GDB
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I neither read the novels nor am influenced by those who do. I can still complain about Japanese Jesus Tatsuya, right?

But on a serious note, I was just thinking about the first arc again and how it relates to this arc. Presumably, all nine schools have a First/Second Class system. It's highly likely they all have similar degrees of prejudice and animosity between the classes, since otherwise there wouldn't be too much reason to go to First High unless you were a First class student.

So... why was only First High targeted by terrorists? And if it wasn't the only one, how did the other schools deal with it when First High needed Japanese Jesus Tatsuya to step in? I guess it could be explained that they had an easy "in" with First High, having a relative of the leader there, but just seems a little sketchy for such a prominent organization to have such a narrow focus.
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Old 2014-06-24, 10:13   Link #64
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^there's a specific reason... and it's spoiler.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ickarium View Post
'Finding Faults' is a copout. It's simply blind hate. Like I've said before, I simply don't discuss Mahouka here as much as I do elsewhere. I get tired of the illogical, overly emotional, and downright strange ranting.
^this statement is emotional. Since even the usual defenders of the series can "find faults" in the anime adaption. Some people did complain too much repetitively, but at least this has died down for the most part in recent episodes.

Last edited by maplehurry; 2014-06-24 at 10:26.
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Old 2014-06-24, 10:15   Link #65
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Good to know it isn't just a dropped/forgotten plot point. I shall await patiently, then.
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Old 2014-06-24, 10:26   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
^

(We are going way OT now, so I hope that this will be my last post on this subject here. Otherwise, we might have to asked for the discussion to be moved to the general thread.)

The reason I ask you and other LN readers to keep your complaints to the LN forums is because it's not just about spoilers. The constant allusions to 'scenes that are missing' or 'characteristics that are overemphasised' colour the way that anime-only viewers interpret what they see or don't see. Furthermore - and this is by far the more insidious problem - it contributes to the negative cycle where viewers looks for things they expect instead of trying to figure out what the anime is actually trying to do. E.g. some characterisation - people keep complaining that Mayumi's character hasn't come through enough: I will continue to argue that viewers can see the characterisation - if they actually treated this series as an animated piece of work instead of a text-based piece of work.

Let me give one example of how readers of the original work ruined a series for me by constantly alluding to what happened without actually 'spoiling' it:

Spoiler for reference to a certain manga that finished in 2011 (the anime also aired in 2011):


From what I can tell, LN novel readers are having a similar effect in that they're 'ruining the experience' of those viewers who might appreciate the themes of Mahouka otherwise. Or who might observe some of the subtleties of the anime if they didn't keep expecting far more obvious characterisation.

It really is up to you - from what I can see, all the complaints from LN readers and the vehemence with which some readers defend the LNs 'because the anime is getting it wrong' are just putting anime-only viewers off. Feel free to complain about production values, scenes that don't flow well etc etc here. But if you want at least some viewers to try the LN because it goes into the world of Mahouka 'so much better', then I strongly suggest keeping all references or allusions to the LN in the LN forum. People will read it if they are interested in the themes or in the characters - why not try highlighting those aspects when they show up in the anime (e.g. the last part of my post here), no matter what you think of how well or badly they have been represented?

I'm not going to say that this is an easy thing to do (it certainly takes a lot of effort on my part when I do it, which is why I didn't comment that much on the Chihayafuru anime as it was airing, for example). And I know that a lot of you probably don't want to bother, given what you wish the anime production team had done instead. But if that's the case, then please keep those complaints to the LN threads, because that's where they really belong.
This I agree.

However, I hope that you also notice some anime-only viewers did bring in some statements and discussions regarding the source material, something along the lines like: "The LN sucks!", "It is no more than just fan-fiction", "the author doesn't know shit about anything", "the writing is terrible!!"...etc...Perhaps some of them were just trolls baiting out for fans of the LN, but other anime-viewers need to be aware of this as well

Well, I feel like I keep repeating myself and I apologize if this does not apply to you (but it's true if you look back at the past episode discussion).

At the end of the day, the anime is flawed (to a hilarious degree), both the LN readers and anime-only viewer can agree on this, let's just enjoy the show (if you find it worth watching), and if those gripes (and small, nitpicked things) really ticks you off, then there is no need to force yourself, and DO NOT listen to any promises about "this will get better!!!", the plot may progress but all the things you are frustrated about will still be there
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Old 2014-06-24, 13:14   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I neither read the novels nor am influenced by those who do. I can still complain about Japanese Jesus Tatsuya, right?

But on a serious note, I was just thinking about the first arc again and how it relates to this arc. Presumably, all nine schools have a First/Second Class system. It's highly likely they all have similar degrees of prejudice and animosity between the classes, since otherwise there wouldn't be too much reason to go to First High unless you were a First class student.

So... why was only First High targeted by terrorists? And if it wasn't the only one, how did the other schools deal with it when First High needed Japanese Jesus Tatsuya to step in? I guess it could be explained that they had an easy "in" with First High, having a relative of the leader there, but just seems a little sketchy for such a prominent organization to have such a narrow focus.
From http://mahouka.us/keyword/
Quote:
The Magic High School located in Hachioji, Tokyo, popularly known as "First High." An elite institution that, year after year, sends the greatest number of graduates to the Magic University, it is run under a two-tiered system, Course 1 and Course 2. There is a maximum of 200 students per grade, and 25 per class. Course 1 is comprised of Classes A ~ D, whereas Course 2 is comprised of Classes E ~ H.
basically First high is one of the best schools in the country. And out of any of the schools it has the highest numbers that are able to enter the university. People are reading to much into the supposed superiority between the courses which the debate showed was much less then the students believed as they had the same curriculum.

The most logical reason they atacked First High is that was the easiest or only place to access the data they were trying to steal.
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Old 2014-06-24, 13:22   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
@Chosen Hero

I know your comment is directed at Ickarium, but I'd like to clarify my position just in case some people might make assumptions about where I stand.

I am critical of the series, just not as critical as some of you for various reasons that I will not go into here. For example, some of the scenes leave me a little bemused (e.g. the accident scene on the way to the 9SC could have flowed much better - it left me wondering how in the world they had so much time to have such a long discussion; I was also somewhat amused by how we're expected to believe that Honoka and Shizuku are in Tatsuya's circle of friends, given that we didn't see them interact for something like five/six episodes).

However, I do think that LN readers should keep their complaints about things that were left out/could have been better done to the comparison thread in the LN forum - unless they are able to hide the fact that they are biased by their knowledge of what happens in the LN. Although this anime is an adaptation, it should first be evaluated as something that stands on its own, and to me and a few other viewers, such evaluations have been buried under complaints about 'what's missing' etc. LN readers have a forum where everyone will understand those complaints, so please have some courtesy for all the non-LN readers who still find the show interesting.
Spoiler for not a spoiler just my answer:


Quote:
Originally Posted by kusabireika View Post
That's true however we can still complaint right? While we keep the spoiler ourself? That's why there is report button to send a complaint on certain poster who post an info before the new episode air? Like certain events and so forth

We only release that info after that episode ends and still put it in spoiler in respect in anime viewer

Maybe I offending so I will say I am sorry

We as ln reader love the series, we just sad that our favorite series/ln getting bad .....

I'm sorry if its confusing just ignore the post if you don't agree with it
Spoiler for answer:


Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I neither read the novels nor am influenced by those who do. I can still complain about Japanese Jesus Tatsuya, right?

But on a serious note, I was just thinking about the first arc again and how it relates to this arc. Presumably, all nine schools have a First/Second Class system. It's highly likely they all have similar degrees of prejudice and animosity between the classes, since otherwise there wouldn't be too much reason to go to First High unless you were a First class student.

So... why was only First High targeted by terrorists? And if it wasn't the only one, how did the other schools deal with it when First High needed Japanese Jesus Tatsuya to step in? I guess it could be explained that they had an easy "in" with First High, having a relative of the leader there, but just seems a little sketchy for such a prominent organization to have such a narrow focus.
In my opinion it's fine, I like seeing peoples reactions to Tatsuya (it's basically what keeps me watching the anime after dropping the LN)
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Old 2014-06-24, 17:38   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultragunner View Post
This I agree.

However, I hope that you also notice some anime-only viewers did bring in some statements and discussions regarding the source material, something along the lines like: "The LN sucks!", "It is no more than just fan-fiction", "the author doesn't know shit about anything", "the writing is terrible!!"...etc...Perhaps some of them were just trolls baiting out for fans of the LN, but other anime-viewers need to be aware of this as well

Well, I feel like I keep repeating myself and I apologize if this does not apply to you (but it's true if you look back at the past episode discussion).

At the end of the day, the anime is flawed (to a hilarious degree), both the LN readers and anime-only viewer can agree on this, let's just enjoy the show (if you find it worth watching), and if those gripes (and small, nitpicked things) really ticks you off, then there is no need to force yourself, and DO NOT listen to any promises about "this will get better!!!", the plot may progress but all the things you are frustrated about will still be there
Yes this I agree ._. Last time someone did go ln section and complaint so all of us defended it +_+, will be my last post regarding it ._.

Change of topic: when will they release the 2nd op? Just asking?
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Old 2014-06-24, 18:06   Link #70
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultragunner View Post
This I agree.

However, I hope that you also notice some anime-only viewers did bring in some statements and discussions regarding the source material, something along the lines like: "The LN sucks!", "It is no more than just fan-fiction", "the author doesn't know shit about anything", "the writing is terrible!!"...etc...Perhaps some of them were just trolls baiting out for fans of the LN, but other anime-viewers need to be aware of this as well

Well, I feel like I keep repeating myself and I apologize if this does not apply to you (but it's true if you look back at the past episode discussion).

At the end of the day, the anime is flawed (to a hilarious degree), both the LN readers and anime-only viewer can agree on this, let's just enjoy the show (if you find it worth watching), and if those gripes (and small, nitpicked things) really ticks you off, then there is no need to force yourself, and DO NOT listen to any promises about "this will get better!!!", the plot may progress but all the things you are frustrated about will still be there
Quote:
Originally Posted by kusabireika View Post
Yes this I agree ._. Last time someone did go ln section and complaint so all of us defended it +_+, will be my last post regarding it ._.

Change of topic: when will they release the 2nd op? Just asking?
Yes, but there are ways to respond without talking too much about the LN here - e.g. rather than getting really defensive here, remind them that they are these are the anime threads and that they should go to the LN threads if they want to talk about the LN author as a writer.

And if you agree with the flaws of the anime, agree...but don't keep referring to how the LN did it better - try referring to what you wish the anime did without even referencing the LN. As I observed earlier, if you want anime-only viewers to try the novels, there are arguably better ways of doing that.

Though I personally don't find the anime as flawed as some of you do (and there are other LN readers who have expressed similar sentiments), because some of the things that are supposedly 'missing' because of cut scenes have been represented in other ways befitting an animated medium.

=======

As for the 'Jesus Tatsuya' complaints - whilst I understand why some viewers might not like OP characters, perhaps more thought might be put into what the story is actually trying to say about what power is? We can see that Tatsuya is OP in terms of his ability to use his magic/intellect - he's way above HS level, and the main reason he's at school is because he's Miyuki's guardian. But what is Mahouka trying to use this setup to say?

(btw, rhetorical question: given that we're only halfway through the anime, I personally think that the answer to this is still very fluid.)
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

Interview translations etc

You must free yourself from that illusion,
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Last edited by karice67; 2014-06-24 at 18:17.
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Old 2014-06-24, 18:09   Link #71
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As I said before, I don't call him Japanese Jesus Tatsuya because his overpowered. I call him that because everyone praises him and practically worships him.
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Old 2014-06-24, 19:41   Link #72
karice67
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^
And maybe that, too, is part and parcel of what the story is using his character to say about one of its themes? After all, there are still other students who look down on him (e.g. Izumi, the third year girl who told him to just watch Mayumi's match last episode).
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

Interview translations etc

You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.


"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.”
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Old 2014-06-24, 19:48   Link #73
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yup, all the overloaded "praises" and "worshipping" are giving me headaches as well , for visual media like anime or movies, sometimes they do need a little bit of "subtlety".

What we get from Tatsuya (in the anime) is that he is outwardly a Weed, yet he possesses prowess (both in strength and intellect) unseen in anyone, not to mention his calm, unchanging and bland poker face , such irrgularity will either "wow" you or piss you off (so far the "wow" has been dominant)

Ultimately, I think The core content is not exactly bad, but the handling of expressing those things have been off, it's like when you take a good-quality chunk of beef then put too much (or too little) salt, or the heat is too high (or too low) => the end result is a bad tasting meal that we put in our mouth
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Old 2014-06-24, 20:30   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
But if the same faults keep popping up they have to be mentioned, I rather they be pointed out than be ignored or overlooked and it's telling that not just a few people on this site but on many other sites point out the same deficiencies and inconsistencies that this series has and as someone who has read the original source (LN) I have to agree with them because it's tha same reactions I found myself having while reading and I do think that the premise is interesting but it does have it's many faults.

I personally admit that there are stuff that have been cut that made me think "That could have explained the situation better if it hadn't been cut", but at the end of the day what we got was pretty much exactly what is in the LN (with a lot if unnecessary extras).

If you're a fan you should be critical about the series you like and be able to take criticism whether good or bad, if all you ever want to hear is good things about the series than the internet us not the best place to do so and you never know maybe this kind of criticism could in the end help the author try and make the next volumes he'll write even better.

@karice67

I agree, I'm just giving my opinion on the matter is all.
And what makes you think your opinion is more "critical" than us?

There are things missing in the anime. That's the fact.

You think it is still the same as the LN, that's your subjective opinion.
We think it is different because sometime, missing a word means a whole lot of difference. That's our opinion.

Just because you don't like the series, it doesn't make your opinion more objective.
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Old 2014-06-24, 20:52   Link #75
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bietchie11 View Post
And what makes you think your opinion is more "critical" than us?

There are things missing in the anime. That's the fact.

You think it is still the same as the LN, that's your subjective opinion.
We think it is different because sometime, missing a word means a whole lot of difference. That's our opinion.

Just because you don't like the series, it doesn't make your opinion more objective.
But the debate on whether the problem is with the anime or the original LNs is not something for this part of the forum, because half the people here cannot contribute to that. (I also have a few things to say on this, but I'm leaving it until the anime is over, simply because I recognise that the anime can't be exactly like the source.)

On the topic of missing words, though, I would say that a better translation would have helped address some of the complaints I've seen...
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

Interview translations etc

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Old 2014-06-24, 23:02   Link #76
Chosen_Hero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bietchie11 View Post
And what makes you think your opinion is more "critical" than us?

There are things missing in the anime. That's the fact.

You think it is still the same as the LN, that's your subjective opinion.
We think it is different because sometime, missing a word means a whole lot of difference. That's our opinion.

Just because you don't like the series, it doesn't make your opinion more objective.
I never said my opinion is more critical than yours (persecution complex much) and I never said anything about not liking this series, I like it just fine i'm just not going to praise it as "teh bestest thing evar" as others do, this series has many problems that keep being pointed out by the people watching the show and as someone that has read the LN I agreed with them because I noticed them when I read it.

(Also just because I gave up on reading it for the time being doesn't make me into a hater and yes, I like to make fun of things in the LN... so?).

About the things taken out, it's not like they would have changed anything about the story, Miyuki would still be an obnoxious brocon (no offense to her fans), Mayumi would still be Mayumi, we would still be getting overly long explanations, Tatsuya would still be praised and the arcs would have the same beginning, middle and ending.

The core of Mahouka is still intact and apart from a few added scenes in the first arc it's been pretty much the exact same content, you are getting the same information that the LN gives you and the characters are pretty much the same (execpt the teacher who looks nothing like in the LN), I have even noticed that even some of the smallest details like when someones small reaction to something they have just heard or a reaction to a certain thing that just happened made into the anime from the LN, it surprised me and I was glad to see that small minutia like that carried over to the anime.
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Old 2014-06-25, 01:09   Link #77
karice67
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@ Chosen_Hero and bietchie11

If you want to keep going into whether the anime and LN are the same, or discuss differences of opinion over the merits of the LNs (which is where the discussion is heading), please take it to the comparison thread.
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How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

Interview translations etc

You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.


"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.”
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Old 2014-06-25, 02:24   Link #78
Chosen_Hero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
@ Chosen_Hero and bietchie11

If you want to keep going into whether the anime and LN are the same, or discuss differences of opinion over the merits of the LNs (which is where the discussion is heading), please take it to the comparison thread.
Don't worry I'm not even going to reply anymore, that's pretty much the reason I avoid the Mahouka threads and besides it was a one sided argument on their part, there was really no reason to get that defensive.

@kusabireika

Probably next episode (since it's the mid-point of the season) or maybe close or after the end of the current arc.
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Old 2014-06-25, 03:14   Link #79
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Let's just respect each other side without criticism or hate, everyone has point and right to defend right so lets leave it at that, lets just enjoy the anime okay

@Chosen_Hero I hope so, thx
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Old 2014-06-25, 12:47   Link #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
As I said before, I don't call him Japanese Jesus Tatsuya because his overpowered. I call him that because everyone praises him and practically worships him.
Japanese Jesus Tatsuya?He's more like Satan though

First High has 600 students from both courses from 1st year to 3rd year and only a small 3%-4% of those students praises/praised him,while the others either hate him or don't care about him,and don't forget his clan
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