Log Horizon - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Netto Azure]

We'll never know until we try! Yeah that's enough Suikouden Tierkreis for today

But yeah, I see your point, though I don't think guns will be level scaling if made in this world. The Steam Engine doesn't seem to be level scaling, and would probably be based on traditional mechanics. Still I'd just wait until the future since we do focus on the Adventurers in this series and they already have a distinct advantage over the Lander population.

Also the episode had a scene talking about the Noble's reactions to how the Adventurers demeanor changed during the Apocalypse. Then /a/'s thread about Raynesia started making posts about how NPC's in an MMO thinks about what PC's do in-game. I can't stop laughing, example:

>Be a blacksmith
>Adventurer wants better armor
>Already wearing head-to-toe shimmering steel
>Tell them to wait a few moments
>Hammer some spikes into it
>Find a can of red paint
>Paint the armor red
>Call it Blood armor
>Charge them a million gold or something

[~Yami~]

oh gawd... bad memories are coming back
pulling too many aggros because you deal the highest damage
and then your tank will be furious and kick you out of party

hahaha.. poor Rudi... I almost though everyone will let him die alone while they're running away

jealous Akatsuki... nice...
a lazy princess??? oh wow!!! I can't wait to see next episode...
her beauty truly fooled me then if it's true

[Nvis]

I hate Rudi.

And 3 episodes and the princess still doesn't say a word. She too lazy to even speak?

[Swordstriker21]

Originally Posted by Nvis

I hate Rudi.

And 3 episodes and the princess still doesn't say a word. She too lazy to even speak?

Why? He's cool. But better stop before I spoil anything. And yeah, her laziness knows no bounds. She is even too lazy to take a bath. The NEET princess indeed

[Alf]

Talking is too tiring for her in order to maintain her image

But hey, she did had a little sigh and a single word at the end so forgive her for being so lazy

[Marcus H.]

Krrrrrrusty bares his fangs on his victim...!!
And Shiroe, for the first time, gets outplayed.

[Sheba]

Not the first time Takahiro Sakurai gets to play a leader who seduces a princess to further his own agenda.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

Well, I was just pointing out that's the reason why Gunners would be important. Though if applied to the Adventurers, then yes of course the standard Class-system would benefit them much much more than developing small armaments. Still for the Landers, projectile weaponry such as guns would be a revolution in warfare (i.e. Guarding the towns from mobs could be much more efficiently done by the local low-leveled militia) and would allow the Landers to stop crowding around in the cities due to fear of Monster Mobs.

Though of course, it will lead to incessant warfare between the nations of Yamato, unless the Round Table acts as a neutral arbiter.

The most logical source for such a technological leap would be the Adventurers, but they really don't have a reason to start designing guns.

It also assumes mobs will suffer enough damage to be killed from them.

Originally Posted by aohige

There should be respawn points near dungeons other than the Cathedrals. Like any MMOs. Otherwise it'd be impossible to raid.

(I actually know of a more detailed answer for how respawn locations work, but ugh, mild spoilers and all. )

Bigger question is: Do the kids know this?

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

We also don't know how recently she acquired that particular skill. She may not have had much chance to use it. It's not like she has access to online information telling her how exactly each of these skills work, either. I'm not even sure what exactly went wrong. "I need to use my magic first or it won't work" isn't a very clear explanation, since A: that sure looked like magic to me, and B: I don't even know what that spell was supposed to do, specifically.

Kannagi are a damage prevention class. If you cast your damage prevention spell after an attack has hit, it's pretty pointless.

[aohige]

If they're gonna even think about manufacturing guns, unless they can get hold of sulfur and saltpeter, they're gonna have to find an alternative to black powder.

Sulfur may exist in the volcanic areas, but saltpeter?
I seriously doubt any gamer in Japan knows the know-how to create it using urine.
Need to burrow Nobu Nobu's brain from Drifters!

(Hell, I'm not sure player or lander piss even has the chemical reactions necessary )

[Keroko]

If they can eat, they can digest. If they can digest, they have waste materials.

Also minor detail I just noticed: That kid who ran into a spaced-out Akatsuki fell flat on his ass. Akatsuki barely even budged. It's small, but it shows how even passively Adventurers are just... tougher than Landers.

[Dark Faith]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

We also don't know how recently she acquired that particular skill. She may not have had much chance to use it. It's not like she has access to online information telling her how exactly each of these skills work, either. I'm not even sure what exactly went wrong. "I need to use my magic first or it won't work" isn't a very clear explanation, since A: that sure looked like magic to me, and B: I don't even know what that spell was supposed to do, specifically.

But adventurers still retain the original HUD/Pop up menus, don't they? Surely skills have basic descriptions in there somewhere
Even if they don't, usually the first step after learning a new skill (at least to me!) is using it several times to understand its mechanics. As for that particular skill, I suppose it's a barrier-type that negates the next blow/fixed amount of damage within X seconds for Y seconds, hence her need to cast it before Tohya gets hit.

As I usually play Tanks and Healers, I'm (unfortunately) used to finding healers/supports who don't know how to use their skillsets properly, so that one hit a bit too close to home
Regardless of Minori's performance that party was doomed anyway. Rudy reminds me of those players I'd kick out of party after the dungeon was completed and make a memo never to group up with them again... Sorcerer in front row and DPS-ing before tank manages aggro?

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Keroko

If they can eat, they can digest. If they can digest, they have waste materials.

Yes, I very well know pissing exists in the world, that's was not the point.

The point is, considering the laws of physics are different and material composing living beings aren't fully permanent, whether or not chemical reaction of ammonia and slow decomposition to create saltpeter (potassium nitrate) using manure beds, urine, and straw, was actually possible or not.

[Keroko]

Personally, I like to hold on to "it works as it should, unless shown otherwise."

Less headaches that way.

[aohige]

I'll PM you, there's a serious problem with that thought in this case.

[FRS]

Some more details on how the nobles see the world, i am still laughing at how much sugar Myssa put in her drink.

Watching the low level group was quite painfull, alot of flashback of the darkest moment of PUG life.

^^;

[J4n1]

The nobles are faced with the realization of just how weak, relatively, they are, yet unable to lower themselves below those more powerful than them.

Also nice to see their point of view of the previous quest system.
Adventurers would do anything, no matter how dangerous, boring or pointless, as long as you paid them, and suddenly, they don't, they organize, they do things they find interesting, they make demands or talk back, or simply just ignore the nobles and their quests.

[frodonk]

oh gawd... bad memories are coming back
pulling too many aggros because you deal the highest damage
and then your tank will be furious and kick you out of party

The worst memory for me was when I got kicked out of a party because I didn't know how to tank. I was with a healer and an AOE spellcaster but what I did was to run around and take aggressive enemies to them instead of letting them hit me. Then we all died I really thought we would hit the mobs together without realizing they weren't melee fighters.

As for the episode, for some reason I never really mind a "talking heads" episode like this one. What I'm curious about is their discussion on POTL nobles contacting adventurers to get them to their side. What if it turns out that guild that walked out of the round table conference makes an alliance with an enemy POTL faction and attacks akihabara?

as for guns in game, why would you need something like that in a world where you can shoot fireballs and everyone is immortal? As for the argument that the POTL would find those things useful, keep in mind that we haven't seen how the POTL defend themselves.

from what I can see they are "crowding" at towns because they game is designed that way, and as with akihabara when you try to pvp inside town, really high level NPCs come out to stop the fight, so who knows? Those NPCs might also be the ones protecting the POTL towns from stray mobs.

I would also like to point out the important looking guy who has pointy ears and was shown inside a library last episode and now he's walking around the castle. I'm interested as to what his role will be

[kuroishinigami]

Originally Posted by aohige

If they're gonna even think about manufacturing guns, unless they can get hold of sulfur and saltpeter, they're gonna have to find an alternative to black powder.

Sulfur may exist in the volcanic areas, but saltpeter?
I seriously doubt any gamer in Japan knows the know-how to create it using urine.
Need to burrow Nobu Nobu's brain from Drifters!

(Hell, I'm not sure player or lander piss even has the chemical reactions necessary )

Also, even if the material is available, there's the problem with level. Do the crafter has enough level to manufacture a gun successfully? can they even equip the gun after they're manufactured? Considering gun is supposed to be a lot stronger than bows, their level requirement should be a lot higher too, and the level cap currently is 100 Maybe they can create one at level 200?

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

Also, even if the material is available, there's the problem with level. Do the crafter has enough level to manufacture a gun successfully? can they even equip the gun after they're manufactured? Considering gun is supposed to be a lot stronger than bows, their level requirement should be a lot higher too, and the level cap currently is 100 Maybe they can create one at level 200?

I think one point that should be made is that, I don't actually think they would need gunpowder at all; especially when there are so many perfectly compatible magical substitutes. Elder Tales is a huge game, surely there must be a form of easily convert-able explosive powder.

For large weapons, you could just summon an explosive fire elemental to propel the shell; adding in the UI crafting and the magical capabilities of the player classes, you could make pretty lethal magitek that could make any modern weapons look weak in comparison (even with more primitive components). And as those weapons are created or employed with what abilities players already have, they could use them without worrying about levels; it's a exploitation that they would not have normally been capable of if Elder Tales was still a game (like that prototype steam engine with the fire elemental we saw earlier).

[Kafriel]

Amazing episode, light-hearted for the first part while still keeping things moving forward. The dungeon part was very immersing imo; the decision to keep the lights up and trying to apply basic battle tactics was fun to watch. Rrrrudy is epic with his self-centered, carefree character and Isuzu is just so adorable^^ The party also went for the option to flee, which is actually quite rare - in most games, people get overpowered by the sheer dps of a challenging level, especially when ambushed.

Looking forward to the next episode, hopefully with a dungeon boss and lots of Krusty to follow up.