Log Horizon - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It would give people a hope for normalcy. Get up in the morning, work, eat. A simple everyday life that we don't appreciate till it's gone.

A lot of players, I hear, are in complete despair. I dare say that being able to work for food they'd appreciate would change that. It would give rise to the possibility of a non-shitty life. And more people would get involved with their new world, instead of doing the bare minimum to keep their life to a shitty level instead of extremely shitty. Right now, the world belongs to the assholes, because they're the ones who think making life for others miserable is a worthwhile goal, and so they're the ones acting. What's needed is more people with a vested interest in making Elder Tale livable, and that means more people who think it can be done.


No, you're underestimating death. Death is the permanent end of life. Anything that falls short of that isn't death. And being free of that makes you immortal. It may not make you impervious to pain, but I only said "immortal". Besides, yeah, game death is a temporary inconvenience. A few seconds, maybe minutes of pain, and then you're right as rain. Instead of crippled and suffering from chronic pains. It may not be pleasant, but it falls ridiculously short of what can happen IRL.

"It would give people a hope for normalcy. Get up in the morning, work, eat. A simple everyday life that we don't appreciate till it's gone.

A lot of players, I hear, are in complete despair. I dare say that being able to work for food they'd appreciate would change that. It would give rise to the possibility of a non-shitty life. And more people would get involved with their new world, instead of doing the bare minimum to keep their life to a shitty level instead of extremely shitty. Right now, the world belongs to the assholes, because they're the ones who think making life for others miserable is a worthwhile goal, and so they're the ones acting. What's needed is more people with a vested interest in making Elder Tale livable, and that means more people who think it can be done."
That it just one of the possibilities that might happen. Giving people those secret wont magically make the Players more hopeful. It might of might not have happen. It is uncertain, not definite. Maybe it does give Players hope, or maybe it just make matters worse. Shiroe doesnt know what will happen. It is usually better to plan ahead rather than recklessly do it.

And for your argument that "Shiroe has no use for the secret yet, so he is a dick when he keep it a secret" is also unacceptable. It is not that he has no use, he doesnt know how it should be used. If you notice, Shiroe didnt ask about the condition in Akiba until after the party, implying that he is very thoughtful of others(he probably doesnt want to spoil the celebratory atmosphere)


"No, you're underestimating death. Death is the permanent end of life. Anything that falls short of that isn't death. And being free of that makes you immortal. It may not make you impervious to pain, but I only said "immortal". Besides, yeah, game death is a temporary inconvenience. A few seconds, maybe minutes of pain, and then you're right as rain. Instead of crippled and suffering from chronic pains. It may not be pleasant, but it falls ridiculously short of what can happen IRL."
In what way did I underestimate death? It seems more likely that you are the one who underestimate death, whether temporary or real.
That way you say it"A few seconds, maybe minutes of pain, and then you're right as rain. Instead of crippled and suffering from chronic pains" make it sound that you are fine with, lets say for example, child abuse. Its perfectly okay for a child to get whipped by a belt by his or her parent as long as it isnt crippling, since the pain will disappear later, according to you logic.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Keroko

It does tell us that physical damage doesn't work the same way. By all accounts he should have broken, or at the very least sprained something. But as his body uses an HP system, it's "everything is fine as long as my HP isn't zero."

That too, but do take note that Naotsugu in the same episode/chapter says "I've been walking for hours, and I don't feel tired at all."

[MeisterBabylon]

Hmm... I'm wondering when someone starts pulling out economics theory in this anime.

[Myssa Rei]

There's a whole lot of stuff left out even then, so I suggest dropping by the weekly Episode to Chapter comparison thread, as if stated here they'd likely be counted as book details.

Ahn_Minh's queries about stats reflecting hardiness are answered there by the way (or rather in Chapter 3, which is the next episode).

[Myssa Rei]

Also suffice to say that much of what Shiroe is trying to do is ensure stability and kicking the city AS A WHOLE out of its funk. He's planning for the long-term, and holding on to the food making secret and using it as a bargaining chip is just part of this.

The payoff may not be readily seen NOW though, as anime-watchers are taking it week per week -- by comparison, his plans only become clear in the final chapter of book 2.

There IS a reason why Shiroe was nicknamed a "moneygrubbing Jew" in 4chan because of the stunt he pulls, after all.

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

That too, but do take note that Naotsugu in the same episode/chapter says "I've been walking for hours, and I don't feel tired at all."

Yea, and episode 5, in the scene where Touya helped another person to walk home, they were beginners, and shown to be very exhausted, proving the point that general physical toughness, strength and stamina are related to levels

[Domonkazu]

exp pot is poorly implemented by the dev, they should gave it a level limitation for usage, so the high level can't abuse it.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Domonkazu

exp pot is poorly implemented by the dev, they should gave it a level limitation for usage, so the high level can't abuse it.

The intent was that it was usable only by newbies. Of course, now that Elder Tales is "real", well, as Aohige pointed out earlier, there's nothing stopping people now from TAKING said potions from newbies.

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by Domonkazu

exp pot is poorly implemented by the dev, they should gave it a level limitation for usage, so the high level can't abuse it.

I still remember that some of the old MMORPG has no concept of bounded item or both lowest and highest level limit for items. So in those games, it is very possible for lvl 1 to be equipped with high quality equipments

[tsunade666]

There is bounded system in elder tale. When one equip an item, it become bounded and unsellable for other players(speaking from experience on bounded item) there should be methods to unbound equipment but that's usually for higher level and not usable by newbie and I'm sure exp pots are soulbounded but that is in game. Apocalypse turn things real. When they out the exp potent can be taken forcibly by manually taking it. The same reason why delicious orders his men to take the equipment before the body disappear.

[Johaocarl]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Three points:
- the real secret is that tasty food is possible at all. Once that's known, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out how. Unless everyone else is conveniently stupid, which I suppose is possible.
- Shiroe had no intention to do anything when he said to keep it secret.
- Letting millions suffer just because you're power hungry is a dick move anyway. People would be suicidal if the system let them, all because of the food.

1- players are thinking inside the box, trying follow the game rules, but that is a world and not a game. Take note that think outside the box and use the "game" class abilities in a creative manner will be very important later, they will make possible "special moves" that the game not had.

2- Shiroe had the intention to help Secret Moon guild... sicerelly, if the news spread about the food with taste to other guilds, Crescent Moon players can be target by other guilds, all other guilds will try find the secret. That is a kind of problem (see the guild players being attacked or see the guild members being invited to other guilds) that Marielle cannot deal and Marielle aparentlyy cannot deal with high politis (she had no skills for create a small guilds alliance... while Shiroe have that skills). Take note that sell food with taste can make the Crescent Moon treasure go full.

3- That is Shiroe character, he know how to be evil when he wat it.... soon we will know why he is know as Dark Heart Shiroe, because whn he hits, he hits hard.

[Johaocarl]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Hmm... I'm wondering when someone starts pulling out economics theory in this anime.

It is the same author than Maoyu. Economics and politics will happens...

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by RobotCat

No, if the secret was just released like that, all the guilds who are currently in power will just use it as another method of 'control'. They'd monopolize the ingredients, force lowbies to train cooking, etc. Instead of just having 'pain' as the stick, they'd now have the 'carrot' too. It'd probably make the oppressed less likely to stand up for themselves, because the players who are oppressed would be 'content' if they can have tasty food once in a while. Giving a little bit of hope is a much stronger method of control than just constant despair. A good balance of both is what allows tyranny to rule for prolonged periods of time.

That's why Shiroe wants to control HOW this secret is revealed to the public. If he reveals everything outright, he wouldn't be able to get his ingredients in order to make the 5 million gold he needs. He knows eventually the other guilds will move against him, but in the meantime he'll take advantage of his positioning to make the gold, and the move onto the next phase of his plan.

I couldn't have said it better

Originally Posted by darksassin

"
That way you say it"A few seconds, maybe minutes of pain, and then you're right as rain. Instead of crippled and suffering from chronic pains" make it sound that you are fine with, lets say for example, child abuse. Its perfectly okay for a child to get whipped by a belt by his or her parent as long as it isnt crippling, since the pain will disappear later, according to you logic.

The same could apply to torture. Subject the victim to pain and release, rinse and repeat. And even if the pain isn't as bad as RL, they still feel it. Constant or intermittent pain has a pretty heavy toll on the psyche.

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by Kamui04

I couldn't have said it better



The same could apply to torture. Subject the victim to pain and release, rinse and repeat. And even if the pain isn't as bad as RL, they still feel it. Constant or intermittent pain has a pretty heavy toll on the psyche.

Yea, true. Sometimes, being unable to die permanently can be the worst case scenario in this kind of situation

And I thought the pain is relative to Level for both the attacker and the victim. Since a lvl 90 Naotsugu seemed to be in quite a pain everytime Akatsuki kneed him on the face

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Three points:
- the real secret is that tasty food is possible at all. Once that's known, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out how. Unless everyone else is conveniently stupid, which I suppose is possible.
- Shiroe had no intention to do anything when he said to keep it secret.
- Letting millions suffer just because you're power hungry is a dick move anyway. People would be suicidal if the system let them, all because of the food.

1. That's why time is of the essence. Misleads help.
2. He plays his cards right
3. This is a case of priority and "end justifies the means". His priority right now, is to end the deteriorating situation in Akiba, save children from slavery , and destroy guilds that have crossed the line. Dickish move you say? Sure. But a few more weeks of suffering tasteless food is a small cost to what this will achieve.

You want a reflexive solution, which there are none, whereas Shiroe is looking at the larger picture, and using his cards more effectively.

[darksassin]

From what I undeestand fron Anh's post, he wasnt questioning that. He questioned why Shiroe didnt spread the knowledge as soon as he arrived in Akiba, before he decided to use the secret as a plan, which I tried to answer the best I can, but he still seem ignorant

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by darksassin

And I thought the pain is relative to Level for both the attacker and the victim. Since a lvl 90 Naotsugu seemed to be in quite a pain everytime Akatsuki kneed him on the face

Strength of the body depends on status and level. So newbie or low levels had it worst.
I still can't believe anh still think dying can be exploited. Even if its a game, I don't let my characters die and I play lots of rpg from different units. And that is in game but this is real. Its a lot worse dying here.

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Strength of the body depends on status and level. So newbie or low levels had it worst.
I still can't believe anh still think dying can be exploited. Even if its a game, I don't let my characters die and I play lots of rpg from different units. And that is in game but this is real. Its a lot worse dying here.

inb4 Anh replies:"They are immortal, they cant die"

Joking aside, I kinda hoped to see Akatsuki in dresses OTL. Wonder if there is any chance this can be rectified in BD/Omake/Ova?

[Marcus H.]

^ I think they decided that Akatsuki in a cute dress will kill scores of their viewers with massive levels of HNGGGGGGGGGG.

[Wandering_Youth]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Also suffice to say that much of what Shiroe is trying to do is ensure stability and kicking the city AS A WHOLE out of its funk. He's planning for the long-term, and holding on to the food making secret and using it as a bargaining chip is just part of this.

The payoff may not be readily seen NOW though, as anime-watchers are taking it week per week -- by comparison, his plans only become clear in the final chapter of book 2.

There IS a reason why Shiroe was nicknamed a "moneygrubbing Jew" in 4chan because of the stunt he pulls, after all.

Oh man, I think I have a pretty good idea what's he going to do with that money even without reading the novel. The way he's going to implement his plan is going to be fun to watch.