Macross Delta - Episode 1 (Preview Airing) Discussion / Poll

[thundrakkon]

Quote

Originally Posted by deadite

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Of course you can try to explain everything in universe, but it still does not take away from the presentation looking really silly. I agree with Anh_Minh on his perspective here. The singing might be important and absolutely should be included in a Macross series. However, the silly little hologram dancing bots and the mecha ballet pose were absolutely unnecessary and only serve to make the presentation look silly.

I really want less AKB0048 and more what Macross feels.

[deadite]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Of course they are. That's not my point. I never doubted there was an in-universe explanation for them being able to do what they showed they could.

My point is that the writers chose to make their idols able to survive that kind of confrontations with nothing more than their stage costumes, and so far I find that choice off-putting.

What's you point? They are wearing protective armor and tech hologramed too look like stage costumes. Of course they can survive those. The only reason you find it off putting because you and many others just can reconcile how Macross Idol veneration is just as important as it transforming warplanes.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Seriously, cut it off. Mirrage was caught of guard by tricky tech she never seen before. Sure ace of her team just shrugged it of, but that say more about his skill than hers.

It's possible that this is first step of bad writing, but you making premature conclusion here.

First, no need be rude, you know?

Second, I'm just noting an aspect of her character here. Why do you think she's shown messing up the maneuvers, and then she gets hit? It's storytelling. They're showing you she's not at the same level than her teammates.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

My point is that the writers chose to make their idols able to survive that kind of confrontations with nothing more than their stage costumes, and so far I find that choice off-putting.

"Nothing more" than their stage costumes?

Their "Stage Costumes" are extremely functional battlesuits, and they were clearly trained to sing in the middle of a firefight, and it means they were singing while on top of an enemy mech if they had to. The fancy decorations serve the purpose of enhancing their curing properties. They wear functional hardware supplemented with established hologram tech. The only difference between them and say, Frontier, is that they are not Idols who were forced to sing in battles; they are singing in battles because that is their REAL jobs, that they were trained for.

Minmay and Sheryl were amateur combat Divas; The Walküre are full time combat Divas.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by deadite

What's you point? They are wearing protective armor and tech hologramed too look like stage costumes. Of course they can survive those.

And "of course" the technology to do that exists. Eat your heart out, Iron Man. Like I said, it's a choice they made to have techno magical girls who can survive close combat with giant mechs.

The only reason you find it off putting because you and many others just can reconcile how Macross Idol veneration is just as important as it transforming warplanes.

There were ways to do that without having the idols be first line fighters going hoppity hop on enemy mechs. Like in, say, just about every other Macross series.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

There were ways to do that without having the idols be first line fighters going hoppity hop on enemy mechs. Like in, say, just about every other Macross series.

That's where you are missing the point of what makes Delta different. Delta is going the modern AKB48 route, of having organised and trained singers under military employment. Yes, this is NEW, but that's exactly why the studio went this way. We have already too many Macross stories about ordinary idol singers being forced to join battles for their own survival. It is about time we talk about idols who sign up for combat duty instead.

[kuromitsu]

Well, this was lots of fun. Silly, yes, but this is Macross? What else would it be? Maybe if I stopped and thought about it seriously I'd find problems with the technology and how the whole setting is clearly not realistic at all, but somehow I don't think I'm supposed to do that. As far as I'm concerned I'm perfectly fine with the idols running around and doing magical girl tricks (yes yes technology and song power) in the middle of battle, at least they're on the front lines and being active, it's not actually piloting mechs but at least it's something.

(I still mourn the rival male idol group, though. What a miss, Kawamori, what a miss.)

(And I'm not sure why they even attempted to disguise the cast names, and then cast Morikawa Toshiyuki and KENN...)

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

That's where you are missing the point of what makes Delta different. Delta is going the modern AKB48 route, of having organised and trained singers under military employment. Yes, this is NEW, but that's exactly why the studio went this way. We have already too many Macross stories about ordinary idol singers being forced to join battles for their own survival. It is about time we talk about idols who sign up for combat duty instead.

And you're missing my point that I don't like seeing what should be awfully squishy targets brought so far forward. Look, our own modern infantry men have body armor, training and stuff, but we don't expect to see them charging machine gun nests in the open, all alone like it's nothing. I know that such things have happened, but they're not treated as normal.

They could have, I don't know, air dropable stages protected by force fields and a screen of Valkyries. You'd get your soldier idols on the battlefield without having to resort to magical girls vs giant mechs. Or hell, they could have made the idols pilot and put skirts on the VFs. But that's not the choice they made, and I don't like it, and I am entitled to my own damn tastes.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

They could have, I don't know, air dropable stages protected by force fields and a screen of Valkyries. Y

The whole point of the large idol groups, started by AKB48, was to have so many members that they are able to appear in live theatres constantly and have multiple tours of different members. All for the singular goal of allowing the audience to get as lose to them as possible, instead of just watching them on TV like what Idols used to be.

Delta shows that in spirit, in having the Combat Divas being frontline fighters. Yes, they LOOK weak and vulnerable, but that's just part of their act. That's why they could be buried in rubble, only to come right back out like nothing happened and just kept singing. They are WEAPONISED idols. Equiped with some of the most advanced portable force field tech the franchise has ever seen yet. The fact that you don't SEE the forcefields is, once again, part of the act.

You can't really get personal with any members of the AKB48. But their act like to pretend you could. That's how the idol business functions.

[Tenzen12]

There are two levels of that battle song.

1)Psychological - it has to be enough show to trigger zentrandis natural pasion toward deculture. More deculture = better effect.

2)Physical - These songs seems to have some hyper waves effect or something and it's affected with distance. Mikumo had to sing literally right into face of raged zentrandi to calm him down.

So no, your solution wouldn't work at all.

[Dop]

I enjoyed that. Sure, there's a certain level of OTT ridiculousness about it, but I can roll with that so long as the show plays it straight, and it's really par for the course with this kind of show. Suspension of disbelief!

Just hope when the actual show starts it gets some decent fansubs going, because I doubt very much there'll be any streaming (HG being bastards, obvs.)

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

There are two levels of that battle song.

1)Psychological - it has to be enough show to trigger zentrandis natural pasion toward deculture. More deculture = better effect.

2)Physical - These songs seems to have some hyper waves effect or something and it's affected with distance. Mikumo had to sing literally right into face of raged zentrandi to calm him down.

So no, your solution wouldn't work at all.

It's fiction. Physics (and biology) are subject to authorial fiat. So, just as the writers decided techno magical girls jumping on giant mechs was at all practical, they could have decided a stage from a few hundred meters was good enough. Maybe shoot amplifiers at them?

[Tenzen12]

Or they could just make slice of life where everyone are happy and fried chicken offer their self anyone who feel like eating. Authors doesn't write world to be practical and filled with easy solutions, in such world effort would have no meaning.

So what you want wouldn't make sense even if we talk meta.

[Elazul]

I found the first episode preview too cheesy for my tastes. It was so damn colorful, happy-go-lucky, and full of bad pop songs (and magical girls, really?). Of course, Macross always had a bit of cheese in itself. It is a series about winning wars using the power of love and music after all, but I liked it way more when things were a bit more subtle. The loli girl as a main character was a bad choice as well. I mean she is 14 and looks (and acts) like she is 10? I know that this could appeal a certain audience, but it's awkward to see a kid as a potential romantic interest for the male protagonist nonetheless. It didn't work so well in Macross Frontier, and I just hope they will not follow the same directions here. I don't want to see another Ranka hanging out there.

On the flip side, it is still Macross making a return. There will be awesome dogfights, and there is Mirage too. So I will keep watching to see how it goes.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Minor cultural note, this may not mean what you think it means:

Images

Double V, knuckles out?

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

I'm still processing my "Whaaaaaaaa...?" reaction from seeing this. It's the damn Mahou Shoujo sequence. I know that the precedent for this is Sheryl (and Ranka's) costumes, but... it's a Mahou Shoujo transformation.

I may have to simply deal with it if this is The Macross That Spans All Genres.

My unanswered question about Idol Combat Singing may or may not be answered pretty quickly when the series starts running in earnest. They clearly have the strongest-yet personal Pinpoint Barrier Field defenses, and can manipulate them to do various things, but can they fight for themselves or will they need the Deltas if they actually need to fight something at range? Will the girls form Devastator link up their fields to punch things in the face?

That looks familiar: Hayate being a graceful forklift Work Destroid operator.

[Tak]

More unbelievable things had been accomplished by singers of the Macross universe. The Walkure in a way represents something new, but not really.

Most singers in Macross had exposed themselves in varying degrees of danger, many up close and personal.

And speaking of magical girls, Sara Nome was a literal example. She also tanked anti-matter warheads and lived. I have to admit, I am liking the new setup. I am not a fan of AKB48 or idol groups in general, but I am a fan of armored combat Magical girls in the vein of Nanoha and/or Mai-Hime/Otome.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

First, no need be rude, you know?

People find your constant bashing of Mirage to be slightly irritating. Just saying.

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Or they could just make slice of life where everyone are happy and fried chicken offer their self anyone who feel like eating. Authors doesn't write world to be practical and filled with easy solutions, in such world effort would have no meaning.

So what you want wouldn't make sense even if we talk meta.

Nothing easy about having to protect performers from incoming fire. Unless you decide they have sufficiently advanced technology to do so, which is what they did.

Authors, even of science fiction, try to make a believable world. Magical girls in Macross made it less believable to me. (I was fine with them in Nanoha. Different shows, different expectations.)

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Tak

People find your constant bashing of Mirage to be slightly irritating. Just saying.

That's besides the point. There are forum rules here and I believe they are explicit about not being rude.

With that out of the way, let's move on.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Nothing easy about having to protect performers from incoming fire. Unless you decide they have sufficiently advanced technology to do so, which is what they did.

The technologies displayed in the first episode utilized by Walures are nothing new in the Macross universe. I cannot convince you to believe in Delta's take on relative realism, but at the same time, the technologies had been around for a long time.

- Tak

[Thess]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Well, this was lots of fun. Silly, yes, but this is Macross? What else would it be? Maybe if I stopped and thought about it seriously I'd find problems with the technology and how the whole setting is clearly not realistic at all, but somehow I don't think I'm supposed to do that. As far as I'm concerned I'm perfectly fine with the idols running around and doing magical girl tricks (yes yes technology and song power) in the middle of battle, at least they're on the front lines and being active, it's not actually piloting mechs but at least it's something.

(I still mourn the rival male idol group, though. What a miss, Kawamori, what a miss.)

(And I'm not sure why they even attempted to disguise the cast names, and then cast Morikawa Toshiyuki and KENN...)

We can still hope they'll break into villainous songs, right?

Anyway, this was a great start. The characters are likable enough, the silliness is entertaining and I love that Giri Giri Ai song a lot. The wait is going to kill me, but I've waited for years already!