Mahouka - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

No, that bit was just as boring in the novel.

That was my point.

You stated that sports anime made this stuff interesting but the problem was that they didn't bother here. My point they can't make it more interesting when it isn't interesting in the novel.

[zerozeronine]

I checked MAL again after a long time and I was surprised by the hate,and if you like the ln and or the anime you either have bad taste or have Stockholm syndrome which I find both funny and insulting

Nice ep,competition part was too short though.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

I checked MAL again after a long time and I was surprised by the hate,and if you like the ln and or the anime you either have bad taste or have Stockholm syndrome which I find both funny and insulting

Nice ep,competition part was too short though.

It's MAL, the chance of seeing an intelligent comment is zero

[Ickarium]

Pretty typical of anime fandom. Other fandoms get it too, but it seems to be especially prevalent in anime. If you don't like something, it can't simply mean there's taste differences. It HAS to be because the anime in question sucks. Sucks. SUCKS. And you (generic you) will tell everyone how much it sucks. Verbosely.

In other comments, I didn't have an issue with this episode, slow as it was, as the sports stuff is a backdrop for other things. It's not a 'sports anime'.

[Newhope]

Well the show basically got hyped by many as the next big thing, and to be frank the show has been pretty damn boring and confusing so far especially if you haven't read the novels so the hate is more than understandable.

[Ickarium]

I'd say disliking the show is certainly understandable. I don't agree, as I don't particularly find it boring, but understandable.

But hate? And a lot of the arguments you see literally ignore what is actually seen on screen. It's typical anime fandom bashing. It's why I have a few people here on the ignore list.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Newhope

Well the show basically got hyped by many as the next big thing, and to be frank the show has been pretty damn boring and confusing so far especially if you haven't read the novels so the hate is more than understandable.

Its big in terms of sales in japan, most people in the western fan base didn't even know what it was going to be about. Hate not understandable. No one had been hyping it really. Its pretty obvious that this show was basically made for LN readers with them cutting out explanations and monologues all over the place

But nvm that, most negative reviews don't really have to do with that. Its the same thing: op characters and no action zzzzz

[millie10468]

I really don't think the anime's portrayal of the sports competition is proof that it was just as boring in the LN. Pardon my meandering into LN territory but the 9SC really was a lot more interesting, at least to me, than the anime has made it seem so far. The atmosphere was a lot more urgent. The competition itself is a HUGE deal because it's the only opportunity high school magicians have to show their stuff since magic is extremely regulated in society. Tons of things depend on this one competition and failure, for most schools, especially those with children of the 10MC, is highly intolerable. This is part of the reason why we understood , by this point, just why First High was beginning to get worried about how the boys in the Official Division not doing as well as expected would be a problem. This is unlike the bland competitive atmosphere in the anime and the lack of real understanding of why First High is a bit tense even though they're winning. Without the context, it just seems like they're worried that they're not winning by an overwhelming amount.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by millie10468

I really don't think the anime's portrayal of the sports competition is proof that it was just as boring in the LN. Pardon my meandering into LN territory but the 9SC really was a lot more interesting, at least to me, than the anime has made it seem so far. The atmosphere was a lot more urgent. The competition itself is a HUGE deal because it's the only opportunity high school magicians have to show their stuff since magic is extremely regulated in society. Tons of things depend on this one competition and failure, for most schools, especially those with children of the 10MC, is highly intolerable. This is part of the reason why we understood , by this point, just why First High was beginning to get worried about how the boys in the Official Division not doing as well as expected would be a problem. This is unlike the bland competitive atmosphere in the anime and the lack of real understanding of why First High is a bit tense even though they're winning. Without the context, it just seems like they're worried that they're not winning by an overwhelming amount.

Which is exactly what's happening. "We're not even at half the competition, and it's still mathematically possible for other schools to catch up!". That's what they're worried about. And Mayumi and Mari are being predictably overwhelming. It's just that they can't be in every sport and their other team mates aren't winning as much as expected. Boohoohoo.

[Ickarium]

It actually did hint at it, but yeah, it didn't do it as well as it could have. It's definitely a work that is better with the LN, but I don't think it's that bad personally.

Then again, for 'bad adaptions', I think of things like Rosario+Vampire, and cringe. :P At least they're trying to be faithful to a degree.

[moridin84]

I'm not particularly invested in the show or all these arguments so don't expect me to argue about this to any great degree.

I believe the main points are as follows:

1) Mahouka promotes Meritocracy
2) Tatsuya is an ridiculously perfect character. All his faults (not a good with people, limited magic, etc) don't negatively affect him in any way. He perfectly popular with most people who matter and could beat any magician as well as any number of non-magicians.

Again it doesn't really bother me. However, I was reading people in the thread posting about others disliking Mahouka as if it were some odd, mysterious thing. So I thought I'd give a quick explanation.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by moridin84

I'm not particularly invested in the show or all these arguments so don't expect me to argue about this to any great degree.

I believe the main points are as follows:

1) Mahouka promotes Meritocracy
2) Tatsuya is an ridiculously perfect character. All his faults (not a good with people, limited magic, etc) don't negatively affect him in any way. He perfectly popular with most people who matter and could beat any magician as well as any number of non-magicians.

Again it doesn't really bother me. However, I was reading people in the thread posting about others disliking Mahouka as if it were some odd, mysterious thing. So I thought I'd give a quick explanation.

Real life promotes meritocracy. Well at least the US and UK do.

The show did a terrible job at showing Tatsuya's weakness. He''s really not as perfect as you think

[Ickarium]

Also, to be frank, he's not really worse in the anime than a lot of heroes. Heck, I'd say he's /less/ over the top than someone like Lelouch, who is inexplicably loved. (I really dislike that character, his tactics make no sense. :>)

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by moridin84

I'm not particularly invested in the show or all these arguments so don't expect me to argue about this to any great degree.

I believe the main points are as follows:

1) Mahouka promotes Meritocracy

Does it?

"Meritocracy", like "pragmatism", "realism", and "fiscal conservatism" are all words people like to use to describe their favored systems. But they put really different things behind them.

So is Mahouka really meritocratic? Juumonji and Mayumi have the power to circumvent normal due process, and what have they done to deserve that power, except being born in the right family?

If we're being charitable, we can say they haven't abused or misused that power (but why were they given the opportunity in the first place?), and that, true to their bloodline, they're magically strong (but what does that have to do with political power?). Oh, and the old justification for aristocracy, that they were raised for it from birth. That's it.

So no, I wouldn't say Mahouka's strictly "meritocratic". It's more a mix of aristocracy and might makes right. (Aristocracy makes might which makes right?)

[moridin84]

Lelouch might be over the top but he certainly has weaknesses and suffers from them

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Does it?

"Meritocracy", like "pragmatism", "realism", and "fiscal conservatism" are all words people like to use to describe their favored systems. But they put really different things behind them.

So is Mahouka really meritocratic? Juumonji and Mayumi have the power to circumvent normal due process, and what have they done to deserve that power, except being born in the right family?

If we're being charitable, we can say they haven't abused or misused that power (but why were they given the opportunity in the first place?), and that, true to their bloodline, they're magically strong (but what does that have to do with political power?). Oh, and the old justification for aristocracy, that they were raised for it from birth. That's it.

So no, I wouldn't say Mahouka's strictly "meritocratic". It's more a mix of aristocracy and might makes right. (Aristocracy makes might which makes right?)

There are a few defintions of meritocracy. The one I am using is "some people are better than others and they should be in charge". Being charge also confers extra rights.

Those two are born to powerful families and are very strong magicans.Thats plently of merit. Though they aren't exactly the problem anyway.

[Echizen777]

If I remember well the TMC system was compared to an aristocracy in volume 7. Even if you belong to a powerful family you have to work hard to have enough power. It was one of the main theme of the first arc.

Originally Posted by moridin84

Lelouch might be over the top but he certainly has weaknesses and suffers from them

Are you implying that Tatsuya doesn't have weaknesses?

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

If I remember well the TMC system was compared to an aristocracy in volume 7. Even if you belong to a powerful family you have to work hard to have enough power. It was one of the main theme of the first arc.

Umm, if it was an aristocracy then working hard wouldn't be required if you were a member of a powerful family.

Are you implying that Tatsuya doesn't have weaknesses?

Other than the two I mentioned.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by moridin84

Umm, if it was an aristocracy then working hard wouldn't be required if you were a member of a powerful family.

It was compared to an aristocracy but it is not one. What I meant is that even though you are born gifted if you don't work hard, other magicians, even less talented than you can beat you. Also the magic power is not the only criteria in a fight.

Spoiler for Aristocracy comparison:

Although this country does not officially have an aristocracy, in
reality, we as the Ten Master Clans enjoy a degree of freedom outside
the bounds of law. As a price for these privileges, we are required to
contribute our power during times like this."

In this case it is different, your magic power has nothing to do here, they all have privileges but must always help in case of danger. Which makes sense since they are generally powerhouses. It's give and take.

Other than the two I mentioned.

So he has weaknesses . His lack of magic talent affects him even though it is not well portrayed in the anime but at this point of the story, his talents are highlighted. His weaknesses are noticeable in a fight.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

It was compared to an aristocracy but it is not one. What I meant is that even though you are born gifted if you don't work hard, other magicians, even less talented than you can beat you. Also the magic power is not the only criteria in a fight.

Spoiler for Aristocracy comparison:

Although this country does not officially have an aristocracy, in
reality, we as the Ten Master Clans enjoy a degree of freedom outside
the bounds of law. As a price for these privileges, we are required to
contribute our power during times like this."

In this case it is different, your magic power has nothing to do here, they all have privileges but must always help in case of danger. Which makes sense since they are generally powerhouses. It's give and take.

The "Ten Master Clans" get a number of privileges because they are powerful. And only as long as they are powerful I'm sure.

That... sounds like a meritocracy to me.

By "merit" I don't mean just "magic power", I mean ability, results, success, whatever. Whether that "success" is due to magic power, intelligence, hard work or random luck.

Originally Posted by Echizen777

So he has weaknesses . His lack of magic talent affects him even though it is not well portrayed in the anime but at this point of the story, his talents are highlighted. His weaknesses are noticeable in a fight.

Well I said had weaknesses in the first place...

Anyway, to quote from someone else's blog.

He has limited magic, but the plot bends over backwards to only bring about situations where they are usable (honestly, almost any LN situation would fit), or uses them to showcase how smart he is in knowing how to apply his so-called “limited” arsenal in varying conditions.

(I'm not linking the actual post as it is a month old and I don't want to bother him by causing some "enthusiasts" from this forum to start arguing with him)

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by moridin84

The "Ten Master Clans" get a number of privileges because they are powerful. And only as long as they are powerful I'm sure.

That... sounds like a meritocracy to me.

By "merit" I don't mean just "magic power", I mean ability, results, success, whatever. Whether that "success" is due to magic power, intelligence, hard work or random luck.


Well I said had weaknesses in the first place...

Anyway, to quote from someone else's blog.


(I'm not linking the actual post as it is a month old and I don't want to bother him by causing some "enthusiasts" from this forum to start arguing with him)

Oh man, not this blog post again..... Its even more outrageous when most animes have meritocratic elements anyways

There are scenes in the LN that contradicts that quote anyways