High School DxD NEW - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

the powers do make it awkward but yea your basically right here's a way to think about it.

Vali's base power is 40 and for the sake of argument so is issei's. If vali and isseis powers both activate at the same time.
10 seconds later issei becomes 80 but vali then takes away 40 and adds to himself
10 s later. Issei 80 Vali 40 (before Divine Dividing)
after 1st divine dividing
issei 40 vali 80
after boost 2 and divide 2 issei 40 vali 120. So yea he's basically right in single combat vali (SHOULD wreck issei. But if you know anything about lead characters they get some plot armor (I mean story plot not boob plot) to help them out

I'm pretty sure boobs are going to be involved in any plot to protect Issei...

Originally Posted by Dengar

You have to take into account that the Boosted Gear can also pass power to others though. In the end it seems pretty much balanced out.

Which wouldn't be useful in a 1-on-1. And even with Gift, Issei can only give the power that he has, which brings us back to the problem of powering him up in time to do any good.

[Dengar]

It all depends on the skills of the individual really, plus who knows what a little ingenuity could achieve. I mean, didn't he defeat Phoenix who was pretty much better than him in every way?

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

the powers do make it awkward but yea your basically right here's a way to think about it.

Vali's base power is 40 and for the sake of argument so is issei's. If vali and isseis powers both activate at the same time.
10 seconds later issei becomes 80 but vali then takes away 40 and adds to himself
10 s later. Issei 80 Vali 40 (before Divine Dividing)
after 1st divine dividing
issei 40 vali 80
after boost 2 and divide 2 issei 40 vali 120. So yea he's basically right in single combat vali (SHOULD wreck issei. But if you know anything about lead characters they get some plot armor (I mean story plot not boob plot) to help them out

Not really, they're just pretty much opposite, but they can both work the system.

Issei can bring in a dragon slayer weapon boasting and try to end the fight early, while Vali can come with phoenix revival exlir and slow the fight down, etc.

Their base abilities both can destroy another easily just as effective as other types.

Of course, this is dxd, and nothing is going to be straight forward.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

the powers do make it awkward but yea your basically right here's a way to think about it.

Vali's base power is 40 and for the sake of argument so is issei's. If vali and isseis powers both activate at the same time.
10 seconds later issei becomes 80 but vali then takes away 40 and adds to himself
10 s later. Issei 80 Vali 40 (before Divine Dividing)
after 1st divine dividing
issei 40 vali 80
after boost 2 and divide 2 issei 40 vali 120. So yea he's basically right in single combat vali (SHOULD wreck issei. But if you know anything about lead characters they get some plot armor (I mean story plot not boob plot) to help them out

Vali might just die of power overload. Remember Taguro?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dengar

It all depends on the skills of the individual really, plus who knows what a little ingenuity could achieve. I mean, didn't he defeat Phoenix who was pretty much better than him in every way?

Yeah, but we were comparing their powers. If he has to compensate with ingenuity (and more than a little), it's because at the start, the odds are stacked against him.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yeah, but we were comparing their powers. If he has to compensate with ingenuity (and more than a little), it's because at the start, the odds are stacked against him.

So you're saying they should get in a fist fight and not use their special abilities to their advantage.

That's like saying, you know I have this great ability...but I shouldn't use it because it requires brain power... That's stupid.

If anything the vanishing dragon is the one that lacks power, because he is defensive in nature. The Welsh dragon is the one that excels in power. If Issei walks in with a fulling boasted fist of death, all vali can do in 10 seconds time is get half beaten to death. Same with Vali flying around and for 10 minutes avoiding a confrontation completely dividing the opponent.

Besides which any theory is wrong in general, since Vali is already in balanced breaker state and Issei has only managed like 5 minutes of it sacrificing an arm...and balancing breaker as its name states...break rules. those 10 second rules are basically...broken.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kukuru

So you're saying they should get in a fist fight and not use their special abilities to their advantage.

That's like saying, you know I have this great ability...but I shouldn't use it because it requires brain power... That's stupid.

How the hell did you get that?

All I said was that, on paper, in a duel, Divine Divider's better than Boosted Gear.

If anything the vanishing dragon is the one that lacks power, because he is defensive in nature. The Welsh dragon is the one that excels in power. If Issei walks in with a fulling boasted fist of death, all vali can do in 10 seconds time is get half beaten to death. Same with Vali flying around and for 10 minutes avoiding a confrontation completely dividing the opponent.

Yeah, sure, if we give Issei several minutes of prep time, he'll gain an advantage. But again, if Issei needs extra-advantages to have a chance, it means the deck's stacked against him.

Besides which any theory is wrong in general, since Vali is already in balanced breaker state and Issei has only managed like 5 minutes of it sacrificing an arm...and balancing breaker as its name states...break rules. those 10 second rules are basically...broken.

Which is why I wasn't comparing people, but powers. Basic powers at that. Balance Breaker's a whole other subject. As are the base stats of Issei and Vali.

[Dengar]

Erm, you forget to mention that Issei doesn't need to touch his enemies to power up.

[kusabireika]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Erm, you forget to mention that Issei doesn't need to touch his enemies to power up.

Actually there is a weakness of divine dividing that is if the certain host like vali has max power with add of the stealing power if he can't handle it will remove excess power that he steal through to the wing of light and release that excess power I'm just guessing

Spoiler:

well both boosted gear and divine dividing have both strong points and weak points it will depend on the host use there power sorry if its confusing

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by kusabireika

Actually there is a weakness of divine dividing that is if the certain host like vali has max power with add of the stealing power if he can't handle it will remove excess power that he steal through to the wing of light and release that excess power I'm just guessing

Spoiler:

well both boosted gear and divine dividing have both strong points and weak points it will depend on the host use there power sorry if its confusing

True, but never directly explained. Just like Issei would "reset", a divine dividing user would also "reset". (again moot because Vali is already fully balanced break)

Both users could use that to their advantage.

That's like saying a Kendo user is weaker then a brawler because the Kendo user should not be using his sword in the fight. That's just...stupid.

If a boasted gear user is weaker because he/she purposely does not use his power right, then inversely no one can say a divine dividing user is better because he/she chooses to use the power effectively.

Think of it this way, dragon shot boasted max boast can level a mountain. That far exceeds a divine dividing user's dividing range. That would win the fight hands down based on based powers...

So it is wrong to say Issei is weaker because he's not a good sniper?

It's just how you roll it.

And it's a moot point since balance breaker would break those rules many folds. And any fighting style is utterly different.

If you think about it, this is probably how the heavenly dragons went on an argument in the first place.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Btw guys i'd like to point this out. When vali was fighting kokabeil he divided the attack before kokabiel could even fire it so vali can divide things even if they are not directly in front of him.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Erm, you forget to mention that Issei doesn't need to touch his enemies to power up.

Yeah, so Vali only needs to touch the enemy once, and he immediately has more power than them. Issei, on the other hand, needs time where he can't more very much or attack at all.

It's not an automatic win for the former, but I still say it's easier for him to get the upper hand.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yeah, so Vali only needs to touch the enemy once, and he immediately has more power than them. Issei, on the other hand, needs time where he can't more very much or attack at all.

It's not an automatic win for the former, but I still say it's easier for him to get the upper hand.

one word.

Sniping.

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

Btw guys i'd like to point this out. When vali was fighting kokabeil he divided the attack before kokabiel could even fire it so vali can divide things even if they are not directly in front of him.

That's balance breaker mode Vali. He doesn't need to wait. he can instantly go Divide X10.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kukuru

one word.

Sniping.

That goes for Issei too. Snipe him before he knows he's in a fight and he'll go down.

As I said, my argument isn't that Vali's invincible. It's that, all other things being equal, in a 1-on-1 fight, the one with Divine Dividing has the advantage over the one with Boosted Gear.

[Simonsy]

Not sure if this is really spoilery but

Spoiler:

just wait a couple episodes and the two dragons powers get explained better and you can then determine better on what weakness or strengths each have

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yeah, so Vali only needs to touch the enemy once, and he immediately has more power than them. Issei, on the other hand, needs time where he can't more very much or attack at all.

It's not an automatic win for the former, but I still say it's easier for him to get the upper hand.

Issei can power up long before coming into contact with him.

[Anh_Minh]

No, because:
- he has to know they'll meet, and when
- he's limited by his stamina. Just being boosted tires him out.

Now, if he really is in position to lay in ambush, maybe he can. But that's not an "all other things being equal" situation any more.

Besides, even if he's as boosted as he can be... Vali still only needs to touch him once to steal half of all that painstakingly gained power.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

No, because:
- he has to know they'll meet, and when
- he's limited by his stamina. Just being boosted tires him out.

Now, if he really is in position to lay in ambush, maybe he can. But that's not an "all other things being equal" situation any more.

Besides, even if he's as boosted as he can be... Vali still only needs to touch him once to steal half of all that painstakingly gained power.

Divine dividing would also tire the user out exactly the same, and considering divine dividing has to touch the person first, a divine dividing user would have no chance to catching up to a boasted power user who's double his speed every 10 seconds to a dividing user who can't divide till he touches.

So a divine dividing user would never see a snipe coming unless he was the one who ambushed first.

Tell me if you ran towards me... and I was boasting, how would I loose to you in speed? ever?

And that's not even counting resets. If the boasted gear user was ever touch, he would just simply run away till it "resets".

You are trying very hard to seek out a boasting user's weakness without considering that a divine dividing user is weakness + defensive in nature.

Your argument was flawed from the first part simply by trying to claim a defensive power can win in offense....that's just fundamentally wrong.

Spoiler wise sacred gears much less Longinus are by far not just their original power, and can...
so your argument is from the first sentence not possible.

Ultimate spear vs ultimate shield is how you use the tools, the tools themselves are equal.

Originally Posted by Simonsy

Not sure if this is really spoilery but

Spoiler:

just wait a couple episodes and the two dragons powers get explained better and you can then determine better on what weakness or strengths each have

Actually no...I don't think the dragon powers will get explained much in this season. That's a few volumes downs. Though they do explain a lot of sacred gears in general. What they will explain is Vali...

Spoiler for Vali:

That Vali will probably never really loose to Issei since their specs are so different

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kukuru

Divine dividing would also tire the user out exactly the same, and considering divine dividing has to touch the person first, a divine dividing user would have no chance to catching up to a boasted power user who's double his speed every 10 seconds to a dividing user who can't divide till he touches.

Except that tiring effects would only start after dividing. In an ambush scenario, Issei would have to hold out an indeterminate amount of time until Vali gets in range.

So a divine dividing user would never see a snipe coming unless he was the one who ambushed first.

The point of a snipe is to make the other guy's power irrelevant. It doesn't matter if it's Boosted Gear or Divine Dividing.

Tell me if you ran towards me... and I was boasting, how would I loose to you in speed? ever?

So it's not an ambush anymore. It's "Issei somehow gets boosted to become faster than his enemy, and uses it to run away". Yeah, that's likely.

And that's not even counting resets. If the boasted gear user was ever touch, he would just simply run away till it "resets".

Except, from the moment he's touched, the other guy becomes faster.

You are trying very hard to seek out a boasting user's weakness without considering that a divine dividing user is weakness + defensive in nature.

The DD's weakness is that you have to touch the guy. Which, if you're anywhere near his power, isn't very hard. Unless that guy really specialize in staying away. And sees you coming. As for its nature... How is it "defensive"? What does it even mean? You steal half the guy's power and add it to your own. What's defensive about that?

In contrast, BG's weakness is that you need time. Which is scarce in a fight. Like DD, it makes the user stronger. Unlike DD, it doesn't make the enemy weaker.

Spoiler for novels:

I've read them. I know that Balance Breaker changes things. It doesn't change my point which was never about Balance Breaker in the first place.

Your argument was flawed from the first part simply by trying to claim a defensive power can win in offense....that's just fundamentally wrong.

That's funny, coming from the guy who wants to use Boosted Gear to run away from a scary enemy.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Spoiler for novels:

I've read them. I know that Balance Breaker changes things. It doesn't change my point which was never about Balance Breaker in the first place.

WTF did you read, balance breaker changes everything.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That's funny, coming from the guy who wants to use Boosted Gear to run away from a scary enemy.

Who said anything about running away. You're the one who insist that somehow the luxury of an ambush can only come from a divine dividing users.

"If you're a boasted user, you can't hit first, that's unfair, but, but if you're a dividing user, it's perfectly fair" Rubbish.

The strongest power is to oneshot, obviously the best type of one shot is a snipe. You only brought up that for some un-explained reason the divine dividing user won't be sniped, so I brought up movement/running.

And again since you are open to spoiler I can completely break your argument apart by

Spoiler for Sacred gear:

Sacred gears evolve to their users needs and desires, thus if boasted gear user is melee, he would become one-punch man. If he was a sniper his powers would evolve another way like boasted sight boasted senses, boasted accruacy, etc . If he was thief type he would evolve into boasted agility boasted mind, etc

The one example is Issei during the Excalibur duel, lost because he didn't know how much to boast before he could win. Right after that DDrag announced that boasted gear would tell him when he has doubled enough to defeat his opponent.

Thus your whole base power argument is fundamentally flawed because the there is no such thing as a base power when it comes to sacred gear users in a fight.

Your scenario can not happen. Ever. The user themselves are one with their sacred gear powers. you can not split them apart and analyze them individually.

Issei will be Issei. Vali will be Vali.