(L+CR) Love Live! (2nd Season)

[Key Board]

How's this for a suggestion

A-Rise and Muse cover each other's songs

Originally Posted by Arlia

I don't know for others peoples, but I actually don't care at all about the real life group. Seems like I'm a minority.

you mean real life idols?

well, I won't say I won't care. Rather.. real life idol industry is brutal and ugly
just.. too much drama for me
the unpleasant kind

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

I could see maybe some sort of short OVA series or side-story or something.

Otherwise, I wouldn't expect an actual new series with Arisa/Yukiho without quite a bit of preparation, similar to The Idolm@ster: Cinderella Girls, which was taking a couple years (2015). The time leading up to it at least has those main girls in games and other media, so people already know and like them, and know generally what to expect. To suddenly throw in Arisa and Yukiho, much less have them replacing anyone we already know and like right now, would probably seem out of nowhere for most people, even with this episode. Now if they took time and put them in games and let people get used to them for a while, then maybe something could happen.

Side-note: My empress was so beautiful!!!!

[Quickersand]

Originally Posted by Key Board

you mean real life idols?

well, I won't say I won't care. Rather.. real life idol industry is brutal and ugly
just.. too much drama for me
the unpleasant kind

Well, that's why I like Muse; cause they're "fake" idols. They're better than real idols, cause they don't have any drama. It's just a group of voice actors. And I think they're more musically talented.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Quickersand

Well, that's why I like Muse; cause they're "fake" idols. They're better than real idols, cause they don't have any drama. It's just a group of voice actors.

I agree. I like how this show has avoided the sort of inter-group business-based drama you see in some of the other idol-based anime shows (at least two of which I think are based on actual real life idol groups).

"School idol" is definitely a nicer concept to me than the more standard J-Pop idol.


As for the other discussions - Perhaps Sunrise just wants to give a sense of Muse having a lasting legacy in the anime-canon, but won't actually show that in a third season. An A-Rise spin-off does seem a bit more likely to me.

[blakstealth]

Another top-notch episode. I died of laughter at the "not a soap brand!" joke; I love these re-used jokes. And Nico's pun when they were making rice cakes was funny, too.

As for how things play out in the end, I believe in the righteous path.

[Nork22]

The shocking truth on what Eri is going to do after graduation.

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[Benigmatica]

Originally Posted by Nork22

The shocking truth on what Eri are going to do after graduation.

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Oh please, don't be a Char Clone, Eri-chan!

Still, I like Episode 10 because I feel that their new catchphrase suits μ's as a whole. And I'm glad that A-RISE accept defeat fair and square. Now it's up to μ's to step it up to the national level!

[mangatron]

It's her birthday? It's her birthday! Happy birthday Nozomi-chan, I have the best gift ever: surprise fondling! Nyahahaha *mangatron runs after committing a crime delivering his gift*

[Tempester]

Any follow-up to Love Live's 2nd season should either be all about μ's alone or not about them at all (A-RISE spinoff for example). Sorry, but I'm strongly reluctant to accept a sequel about μ's that doesn't prominently feature Eli, Nozomi and Nico.

Before S2 started airing, I was wondering how Sunrise/Lantis were planning on extending the anime part of the franchise when considering the 3rd years' eventual graduation. I saw three general ways that they could follow up on S1:

1. 13-episode S2 ending with graduation
2. 13-episode S2 probably ending with μ's showdown with A-RISE, followed by an S3 ending with graduation
3. 26-episode S2 ending with graduation

By now, it's evident that Sunrise/Lantis took the 1st option. The 2nd and 3rd options would have been interesting choices to maximize profits on the anime alone with more BD sales and a longer exposure. However, I'm not sure if the anime could have maintained its writing and directing quality by doing so. Personally, I really liked some of the "slower," less eventful episodes of S2 like episodes 2 and 5, but could Hanada really have kept that up for two additional cours?

I'd also say that ending the saga of μ's with S2 might have been the best choice since doing so is taking advantage of a strong aspect of Love Live: brevity. Indeed, while the limited episode count may not make the most out of character development (particularly for A-RISE), one of the things that I like about Love Live is that it pushes the plot forward at a good pace and blasts the viewer with energy, and S2 has preserved that aspect while still giving some much-needed attention to some of the less screentime-grabbing girls like Rin and Nozomi. One of the biggest complaints I hear about K-ON's second season is the slow pacing. At least we can be reasonably sure that Love Live S2 will be rushing and ending with a bang and an impression.

Ironically, it's Love Live's very strength that may be dooming the anime to an early closure. However, money talks and I'm sure Sunrise/Lantis are salivating over S2's massive sales and brainstorming ideas with which they can milk the franchise. I just hope that whatever follows still results in a quality product. And considering how much the OVA/PV6 sold (hint: a lot), I hope we get many more PVs and give all 9 of the girls a time in the PV spotlight. Rin for PV7, please!

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Originally Posted by Triple_R

"UTX is a beautiful school, with great style. A-Rise is also beautiful with lots of great style. Your songs are very fun and catchy! And polished, but almost... too polished. You feel a bit too celebrity-like for your own good. Your handling of the media is very professional, almost too professional, sometimes a bit overly safe and vanilla. You need to add more emotion and distinct personality into your performances and your public appearances. You need to find something you really, truly care about, and sing about that. What motivated Muse and I for a long time was saving our school, something we all felt passionately about. Muse and all of the students of Otonokizaka Academy came together as one, pursuing a common goal and a common purpose. That was our story. It's a story we felt strongly about, and perhaps some tiny spark of that story was seen by people on the outside.

A-Rise, at this point, has to find its own story like that. Something a bit more than just poise and polish, rhyme and rhythm, flash and dash, style and strength. Something... of the heart."

That's nicely written. I know it's very "Honoka-like" for her to be awkward around Tsubasa, but I would have really liked to see Honoka break out of her shell a bit and say something similar to this in that scene.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I found Arisa's protectiveness of Umi to be a little bit out of left-field, but I suppose Umi is arguably the least attached of the Muse girls when it comes to yuri fan-pairings.

Reminds me of how, once upon a time, Eli and Umi were close friends from the start.

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Then it became Eli and Nozomi instead. Maybe that's for the better since Nozomi needed to be best friends with someone really popular to counter her own lack of popularity.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Tempester

That's nicely written. I know it's very "Honoka-like" for her to be awkward around Tsubasa, but I would have really liked to see Honoka break out of her shell a bit and say something similar to this in that scene.

Thanks! The main reason I wrote that is that I think this is what the narrative is aiming for, just without spelling it out explicitly.

One of the things I really like about Love Live! is that all of the following works very well for me...

1) Honoka being inspired by A-Rise in the first place (way back in S1E1)
2) A-Rise being legitimately elite. Truly elite. You can see it. Very strong "show" to support the "tell".
3) Nonetheless, it being very believable when Muse defeats A-Rise. And you can even see exactly why Muse defeats them.

All of that can be very tricky to come together - To have an underdog believably defeat an established champion who is truly deserving of that champion status. Big Kudos to Love Live! for managing that story marvelously well.


In fairness to Honoka, it makes it a bit more magical that she herself struggles to put it into words. That she herself doesn't fully grasp her own strengths (which Muse as a whole has embraced, adding their own individual talents to the full picture). One idea I'm fond of is that the way a person sees himself/herself can often be very different from how others see that person. Somebody thinks s/he's just a normal person or maybe even a bit of a flaky person, but others see someone inspiring and/or impressive. And perhaps that person and others are both right, as I think you could argue is the case with Honoka.

The anime Hyouka is another one that did a good job of playing with this idea.


There are 3 episodes left, and it's possible that Tsubasa will make another appearance or two before it's all said and done. Perhaps Honoka will come back to her later with a stronger answer. Might be a nice scene in a final episode, especially if the graduation is saved for a future movie or season or OVA.

Reminds me of how, once upon a time, Eli and Umi were close friends from the start.

At least the first season showed a bit of a growing bond between Eli and Umi.

Then it became Eli and Nozomi instead. Maybe that's for the better since Nozomi needed to be best friends with someone really popular to counter her own lack of popularity.

Good point.

[Kanon]

The third years' conversation about the future of µ's, which will probably happen soon, is what will decide what direction the anime franchise is going to take. Arisa wishing to join is a hint they might keep it going with new members. However, I think there's a strong chance the group will decide to disband once the third years graduate. µ's is the nine of them, if they lost some members, it wouldn't be the same anymore. I think this is how the girls feel as well.

Spin-off of A-RISE would be interesting, but they don't have enough members to carry a whole show on their own, unless the staff decides to take a different approach and focused on competition (meaning they'd introduce other groups as well).

[JohnNiles]

Just finished episode 10. That was a real cop-out non-answer from Honoka, yeesh. Not knowing one's strengths is kind of insulting to the people who were left behind.

I couldn't enjoy the mochi-pounding scene as much as others can. My doc said "lay off the white rice".

While I was watching the episode, I decided my personal pick for the catchphrase would be "Together". I was actually kind of close... there's something to be said for brevity.

[wakbob]

Finished episode 10, but I want to know what happens next.

Spoilers plox for whats going to happen.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by JohnNiles

Just finished episode 10. That was a real cop-out non-answer from Honoka, yeesh. Not knowing one's strengths is kind of insulting to the people who were left behind.

Well, Tsubasa herself covered just about everything that would be easy to put into words (between this episode and Episode 3). Effort, practice, talent, teamwork, etc...

What's left is the key difference between A-Rise and Muse, but I can understand Honoka not being able to come up with it when she's put on the spot like she was here.

While I was watching the episode, I decided my personal pick for the catchphrase would be "Together". I was actually kind of close... there's something to be said for brevity.

I was chatting with a friend about this latest episode this morning, and he felt that "Muse: We're Not The Soap!" would have been fine, a good comedic catch-phrase.

I kind of agree with him, but at the same time, I'm fine with what they came up with in the show itself.

But being a lover of puns, this spurred me to come up with a catch-phrase that could capture Muse sharing a name with soap, as well as their strong desire to win.

"Muse: Cleaning it up at Love Live!"

What do you think?

[JohnNiles]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, Tsubasa herself covered just about everything that would be easy to put into words (between this episode and Episode 3). Effort, practice, talent, teamwork, etc...

What's left is the key difference between A-Rise and Muse, but I can understand Honoka not being able to come up with it when she's put on the spot like she was here.




I was chatting with a friend about this latest episode this morning, and he felt that "Muse: We're Not The Soap!" would have been fine, a good comedic catch-phrase.

I kind of agree with him, but at the same time, I'm fine with what they came up with in the show itself.

But being a lover of puns, this spurred me to come up with a catch-phrase that could capture Muse sharing a name with soap, as well as their strong desire to win.

"Muse: Cleaning it up at Love Live!"

What do you think?

The obvious reason that was left unsaid is that Muse has something to rally around. In the beginning, it was all about stopping the school closing, then it became about enjoying their time together. It's cheap, but succinct, and fits Honoka's character.

I've said pretty much what you said about the reason for the loss, but I left a few things unmentioned. The meta-reason, visible to us viewers, is that A-RISE started out strong but hit a ceiling, while Muse began on shaky ground but eventually climbed to a level where they could compete on even terms. Both groups have exceeded what can be reasonably expected from a high school group. But Muse is the protagonist group and gets to bust out new music when the occasion calls for it. That's hard to compete against. I guess by in-the-show logic, Muse are just better songwriters.

If I understand correctly, the entire Love Live competition is decided by direct vote, so there are no judges to work with, no points for technical prowess. So appealing to the viewers is what matters, and that's difficult to quantify (other than by counting existing fans). There isn't really such a thing as a commanding lead, and you can't win by "running out the clock".

Though to be honest, the idea of pitting groups against each other, for reasons other than exposure, seems kind of dumb. That's why I didn't take that part of the show seriously at first and assumed it would be handwaved away.


As for the catchphrases, I would like to go back and rewatch that part. Some of them were delightfully awkward... we deserve more of them.

[Hachitora]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But being a lover of puns, this spurred me to come up with a catch-phrase that could capture Muse sharing a name with soap, as well as their strong desire to win.

"Muse: Cleaning it up at Love Live!"

What do you think?

As a fellow pun lover, I applaud you

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by JohnNiles

Both groups have exceeded what can be reasonably expected from a high school group. But Muse is the protagonist group and gets to bust out new music when the occasion calls for it. That's hard to compete against. I guess by in-the-show logic, Muse are just better songwriters.

That's an interesting point, and you could be right. Just going by reading song lyrics off of a piece of paper, Muse tended to have better lyrics than A-Rise. Shocking Party is very fun to listen to, but it doesn't convey a lot of meaning to me, whereas some of Muse's songs do.

Though to be honest, the idea of pitting groups against each other, for reasons other than exposure, seems kind of dumb.

Well, remember, these are school idols. I presume each group is representing a specific school (although I guess some schools may have more than one group). A-Rise represents UTX, Muse represents Otonokizaka Academy, and so on and so forth. It's not that different, really, than high school sports competitions. You don't just win for yourself or even your entire team, you win for your entire school. Your success is your school's success, and so there's a definite element of school pride involved here (also similar to mahjong competition in the Saki franchise). Recall how way back in S1E1, A-Rise is prominently portrayed in a UTX brochure. So these competitions can have real impact for schools involved.

As for the catchphrases, I would like to go back and rewatch that part. Some of them were delightfully awkward... we deserve more of them.

Agreed, lol. In fairness, though, some of them may be less awkward in the original Japanese. Some Japanese puns don't translate well to English.

Originally Posted by Hachitora

As a fellow pun lover, I applaud you

Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.

[Master_Yoma]

Maki in a kimono it just fits her so nice Niko as a Miko dosnt fit her at all but Eli as a Miko

[YourIdeas]

I wouldn't mind some sort of closure where Arisa, Yukiho, and some 3rd girl joining µ's as a nice jesture to show that they'll continue on as a club. Turning it into a 3rd season though is sort of pushing it, imho.

Much like with K-On, Lucky Star, etc. you have to eventually realize that these are series where time actually does progress and at some point, characters previously in high school won't be in high school anymore. Love Live does have the advantage of 9 main girls, 6 of which will continue to stay, but once you take out the 3rd years, it really isn't µ's anymore.

The concept of cycling out graduated characters for a new set baffles me whenever its suggested, because it only takes a generation, maybe two, for the entire dynamic to morph into something different. With no official source material for the anime (outside of the manga's alternate continuity), Love Live actually has the advantage in that whatever the future holds after graduation is left largely to the imagination. Imagine if the Wakaba Girls from K-On got greenlit for an anime. Sure, it's still technically K-On. The trouble is, you've got only two returning girls, two who were minor characters previously, and two entirely new characters to deal with.

Same concept here. Arisa and Yukiho have already shown what kind of dynamic they would bring to the group. In addition to that, you need to bring more development to these girls and put them in recycled situations to break them into the µ's routine. Maybe Arisa is like her older sister and delved into ballet herself. Maybe Yukiho will have a conflict with Honoka as per sibling rivalry. 3rd unknown girl would be a wild-card. As cute as it sounds, it doesn't add a lot of interesting points to the series, and it will feel more like milking than anything else.

I'm quite sad that the anime's shelf life will probably be 2 seasons. As long as the ending ties everything together, I won't have any regrets.

[Kotohono]

Personally rather than it being muse still with Arisa and Yukiho joining them.

I think a more compelling series would be for Arisa and Yukiho and maybe someone else to become a new idol group of the school, but having members of muse act as support and senors/teachers to them, ie Kotori for helping with outfits, maki for songs, and Umi to be the uh... drill sergeant on them ) to keep the legacy of School Idols going at the Otonokizaka after they're gone.