2016-06-20, 11:42 | Link #7581 |
The Most Villainous Name
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Omnipresent
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Slightly disappointed that Ainz isn't going to go in and wreck shit with [Perfect Warrior]. At the same time, the fact that he's not allows for the opportunity for this to be a good fight.
Still, the fact that Go Gin is going to lose here means that he's only on the same level as Clementine without her gear. |
2016-06-20, 12:44 | Link #7582 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
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actually Go Gin is stronger than Clementine
Clementine's skills > Go Gin's but Go Gin's racials are far superior to a human, even one who has entered the Domain of Heroes even Go Gin stated himself that he's so strong because he is a rare breed of War Troll - and that no human could ever hope to match his physical ability Baziwood (one of the four strongest warriors in the Empire) said that the Four Knights together would not be able to defeat the Martial Lord Go Gin so far has only ever lost matches when his opponents utilize support magic and/or long range magic against him He has never lost in a true contest of martial skill as for Ainz - when he is using Perfect Warrior, he is literally an unstoppable force in New World setting Perfect Warrior takes his already high base level stats and raises them up even further to the equivalent of a Yggdrasil lv.100 warrior which is even crazier in New World terms than Ainz with his base level stats as a mage from what I understand from his preparatory statements in the latest fanfic update - Ainz is disabling his Low Tier Nullifcation (which negates spells and attacks lv.60 and below) and is not going to use Perfect Warrior Ainz wants to use his own baseline stats as his Overlord magic caster self coupled with his current melee skill level which he estimates to be equivalent to a lv.33 Yggdrasil player Ainz is doing all of this to see if he can get a level up or rank up on baseline ability |
2016-06-20, 14:50 | Link #7584 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Random thought.
So lot of people are relying on Momon to act as a counter to Ainz Ooal Gown. Now imagine the faces of any onlookers, if Ainz ever gave a command to PA disguised as Momon, and PA answered "yes father". Never going to happen, but oh god it would be hilarious. Also, PA acting as Momon meeting Evileye, the potential for comedy and hijinks would be endless. |
2016-06-20, 15:02 | Link #7585 | ||||||
The Most Villainous Name
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Omnipresent
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Based on what?
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2016-06-20, 16:31 | Link #7586 | |||||||
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Join Date: May 2016
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Clementine was slightly superior to Gazef in terms of character level and martial arts skills Gazef is considered superior to the Four Knights in terms of level and martial arts but not enough to overcome them 2v1 so going by that - there is no way Clementine could take on the Four Knights all at once but the Martial Lord can - and the Emperor noted to himself that Baziwood told him he could take on all 4 very easily so there is really no reason to doubt Baziwood's claim here Quote:
the only people in the Slaine Theocracy above Adamantium level are the 3 God-kin they possess Clementine's level is roughly 34ish - comparable to the likes of Gazef (29), Brain(28), and Gagaran(28) though while she is stronger than those 3, Clementine isn't far above their level which is why Ainz said that he wouldn't take the fight with Clementine seriously when they fought because crazypants made the remark that no one in the Kingdom could match her but Gazef Stronoff, Brain Unglass, a drop from Red, and a warrior from Blue. (Ainz knew at that point from his previous encounter with Gazef, Ainz could rofflestomp him and thus her) Quote:
what makes Go Gin above Clementine isn't his martial arts - it is his baseline level coupled with racial talents Go Gin is at minimum a lv.40 but would also have a racial line of talents that would be considered "ELITE" in the New World again Go Gin basically admits to his manager - he really isn't that strong skill wise - it is just because he's a rare breed of War Troll, humans cannot approach the raw power and defensive strengths he was born with Quote:
Ainz is OP physically because he's a lv.100 in a world where the greatest of heroes would only rate a lv.60 again Clementine would rate a lv.34 in Yggdrasil terms it was never even close to being a fair contest and that's not all Momonga was a super grinder who maxed out his caster stats and put most of his spare points into his strength stat for role playing purposes that further translated him into having a high strength value when in the New World - making Ainz OP as a magic caster just swinging a sword around he still 1 shots everything even though he has no warrior skills Clementine was never on Ainz's level - she couldn't even sniffed his atmosphere Clementine was just skilled enough to evade and riposte Ainz's base level sword swings (again while he is just bullshitting around in his magic caster state) in addition, Ainz was a newbie on the ropes learning the basics of swordfighting - he was using his faux fight against Clementine to improve his melee skills and gauge how potent the martial arts magic system is Quote:
she probably couldn't handle 2 at a time Quote:
so you can't really make that comparison either at best we can predict Clementine fought humans at the adamantite level - but not much else but Go Gin has fought the highest ranked adamantite adventure teams in the Empire and City-States and the previous Martial Lord before them and won against almost all of them Go Gin is considered powerful enough in the Empire that the only person that could truly defeat him 1 on 1 is Fluder and Fluder is considered a magic caster superior to the 13 Heroes (their character levels are 50-60 to give you an idea) Quote:
Clementine never had any advantage in their fight - she could only evade and parry Ainz's base level noob swings even if Ainz wasn't using his low tier nullification passive - she still couldn't do jack shit for damage because their level difference was just too great Ainz is nearly 70 full levels higher than Clementine Last edited by fishstick; 2016-06-20 at 19:21. Reason: came back from work |
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2016-06-20, 16:52 | Link #7587 | ||
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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Furthermore she is more of a speed chara with thrust attacks , not the best against skeletons. Think of Ainz as of a just little bit weaker death knight. Even with the gear there is almost noone in scripture eho can defeat a dk |
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2016-06-20, 19:46 | Link #7588 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
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IMO, Clementine was a rather specialised fighter. Her entire fighting style appeared to be geared towards speed, with a focus on scoring critical hits by attacking her opponents weakpoints, like the eyes or throat.
Even her equipment was selected for that purpose: her opponent would never know her weapons were enchanted until she used them for the killing blow. To make it short, she is more like an assassin than a warrior. If she was fighting against a human, you could probably increase her level by +5 or something, but in return you would have to decrease it by -5 or -10 if she has to fight against a non-human or an undead. And most importantly: We never saw her with her Black Scripture Gear. Considering the effects powerful equipment has in this world, the Clementine Ainz fought can be considered a few levels lower again (When thinking about her claims about fighting strength). Also, it might be just me but just because we have a (racial) level 20 human, it doesn't mean that the human's stats are higher than those of a (racial) level 10 troll. And let's not forget innate racial abilities... Even if Go Gin is "just" level 25 (or even level 20), in the new world he would still be more powerful than a level 30 human. Overall, I agree with fishstick more than I do with Mongame's arguments... |
2016-06-20, 21:09 | Link #7589 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
The Most Villainous Name
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Omnipresent
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What I meant was that Clementine was well above the majority of Adamantium-rated warriors. Even the man who was considered the strongest in the surrounding countries, Gazef, had not stepped into the realm she had. Quote:
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Or, rather, let me rephrase; because they wield legendary class items, most people in the Black Scripture should be able to kill a Death Knight. With normal gear like Clementine was wearing, I agree that very few could handle one. Quote:
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2016-06-20, 21:21 | Link #7590 |
The Most Villainous Name
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Omnipresent
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Just to clarify, I do think Go Gin is stronger than Clementine is, overall. That being said, I was expecting him to be much stronger than her, but it's obvious with this last chapter's release that he's not going to be.
If I had to guess myself, Clementine would be around level 31-32. Go Gin should be right around 34, all things considered. Unless he loses terribly tomorrow. |
2016-06-20, 21:34 | Link #7591 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
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Ainz : It's true. and we will rule the world together, as father and son. Albedo : What about me!? Shalltear : Me too!! Well seriously, that would make an intriguing story. Many people thought Momon was a royalty from a destroyed country. What if that imaginary country was crushed from inside by a mad king who decided to turn himself into an Elder Lich, Namely Ainz? I just know that dialogue from clueless human characters regarding this matter would be really interesting. |
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2016-06-20, 22:39 | Link #7592 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
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As far as I am aware, humanity in the New World isn't getting trashed because everyone else around them is magically spawning 5-10 levels higher, it is because a level 5 Human will always loose against a level 5 monster. Not just because of the stat-difference, there are also certain abilities you unlock once you reach specific levels. Thinking back on vol1, it was stated in a short paragraph that "humanoid" players include the classic fantasy races: humans, dwarves, elves etc... Demi-human players receive a bonus on specific stats in exchange for minor drawbacks, while heteromorphic players receive special abilities and stats in exchange for severe drawbacks and restrictions to their playing style. I think this was even mention in some of the flashbacks Ainz had, where we could see that slime-players had to get a certain Item to become able to [do-something-that-I-can't-recall-right-now] for example. Our only sources for Yggdrasil class-combos are the denizens of Nazarick, and I can't remember any of the "Races" shown to be over level 15. (10 apparently being the "normal" maximum) Which means that your argument of "unlocking fewer job classes/skills as humans" is kinda wobbly, isn't it? Because a monster would loose at most 15 job-levels, and at level 100 that appears to be a rather thin difference, especially if you add the stats/ability bonus they receive form said race-class on top of that. Taking this as base, humanity in the New World is screwed because they need to outlevel their opponents just to be on an even playingfield (stat-wise). Coupled with the fact that they have to "play it save" because there is no respawn, they are at a severe disadvantage since they have to go after "lower-leveled threats" which would reduce the "XP" they get. All that explains humanity's current situation and why there are only three human countries. So what are you basing that argument on? Maybe I'm just not getting it because it is rather late for me and I'm too tired, but basing everything on levels and saying "this one is x levels lower, therefore he has absolutely no chance" seems kinda silly to me. Levels are a rough indicator of abilities but they say nothing about the lethality. New World's humanity has to face a rather heavy stat-disadvantage where 5 levels can determine if you have a chance or not, but we are talking about people who commonly range somewhere between 10 and 20. At this level-range, having 5 extraclasses of warrior will not save anyone... If we have two identical Yggdrasil players at level 100, where one has 15 levels of "Human" and the other 15 Levels of "Troll"... I would say the troll will win everytime, unless the human happens to have the perfect counter for the troll, or is a strategic player like Ainz. Therefore: Levels are NOT levels, and being the same level as your opponent doesn't mean you have a chance to defeat them. |
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2016-06-21, 01:09 | Link #7594 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
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@Namorax: The slime item I think you're referring to as one that allows them to see with normal vision, since slimes mainly see things through a motion detection sense. There's also more than three human countries outside the main three. There's the Roble Holy Kingdom with their national hero being a Valkryie Knight with a 'Sacred Blade', and the Dragonic Kingdom whose royal family is descended from the Brightness DL but other than that is composed of humans who the Beastman Country is conquering/eating. Also you're forgetting that humans only get the one racial level in human. Though that frees them up to spend all their other 99 levels on job classes. This is just me being nit-picky but I thought racial levels mainly increased your base stats as well as gave you bonus attributes along with exclusive skills, while job classes provided a buff to your stats based on your base stats like base stat of attack, defense, etc.. of x multiplied by 1.xxx due to job class along with giving you more skills and exclusive job skills. This sounds more video game like since you'd have to carefully craft a character to make them as strong as possible. The base stat bonus of racial levels would have to be weighed heavily vs the stat multipliers of job classes in order to get the highest stats possible before factoring in equipment, weapons, and resistances. The disadvantage to humanoids would be the lower base stats compared to everyone else, while demi-humans and heteromorphs' disadvantages would be things like either job restrictions or penalties as well as being weak to specific attributes of damage. One good example would be Ainz being undead therefore having Holy and Fire damage weaknesses. Can someone with knowledge of D&D clarify this since Overlord is heavily inspired by it? |
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2016-06-21, 01:21 | Link #7595 | ||
Provoker
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Dreamland
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Or even more if that his character was built in-game Quote:
Also who is stronger? Martial Lord or The Giant of the East ? They are both war trolls after all.
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Last edited by ChuckE; 2016-06-21 at 01:54. |
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2016-06-21, 03:06 | Link #7597 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
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He is trying to avoid this. |
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2016-06-21, 03:35 | Link #7598 | ||
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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The way I originally understood this story is that humanoids (including humans) have NO race levels and therefore must put all of their levels into jobs. In regards to this, I understand that a lvl 100 human player is roughly equal to a lvl 100 heteromorphic player, but they have different specialties. Particularly the heteromorphic player has more strengths and weaknesses. Additionally, I think it was stated somewhere in the first volume that the max level for any job or race was 15, so you had to have multiple jobs or races. With this in mind, I have two theories for why humanity is doing so poorly in the new world. My first theory is that other races have an advantage in that they gain racial levels at the same rate they gain job levels, so the average non-human is twice as strong as the average human. My other theory is that since this is no longer bound by game logic, other races simply have more advantages than humans. Since no one we know of native to the new world has reached level 100, that doesn't seem to be a constraint like in the game, in that no creature has gained enough levels to hit it. Mangafreak44 - The theocracy are good guys to the humans only. For other races they're enemies. |
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2016-06-21, 07:49 | Link #7599 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
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My understanding was that Demi-humans and heteromorphic races were inherently stronger (even if it is not that much) than a normal humanoid player. The humanoids are jack-of-all-trades, having no restrictions, while the other races have one thing they are really, really good at.
A level 100 human necromancer should never be as good/strong as a level 100 lich necromancer for example. They might have to use certain class-combos or items to get on the same level (or close to it) as the Lich, but being equal just like that? After the Lich had to go through all that trouble with his weaknesses, etc. just to get too level 100, while the human has (comperatively) smooth sailing? The impression I had from the first volume where the concept was introduced, was that heteromorphic players get to play the "hard" mode of the game. Why would you choose a race for your one and only character that gives you a totally different experience of the game? You are not allowed to play certain classes, you will have heavy weaknesses against at least one element and who knows what else there is. Why would someone choose to play a race like that in an MMO when any human player can just do the same things without having to bother with these limitations? Because they are masochistic? Because of the aesthetics of being a slime? From a game perspective, it makes sense that a heteromorphic player will be a bit stronger than a human player, just to make up for all the disadvantages. And if we apply the concept to the New World... Humans might have more jobclasses available, but that only means they have multiple ways of killing an enemy. An heteromorphic player only needs one, and they will probably be very good at using that. |
Tags |
fantasy, harem, lich, transfer to another world, world domination |
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