Macross Frontier (Macross 25) general discussion [No Spoilers]

[monir]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Macross Frontier should start its broadcast in April 2008.

Wait just a second... The first episode was just a screener?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by monir

Wait just a second... The first episode was just a screener?

Someone missed the memo... Yeah, that sucks doesn't it?
(Some theories suggest that it was meant to be a 25th anniversary project. And that to ensure it didn't become too late and ended up being released on the 26th year, they put the first episode out early.)

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by monir

Wait just a second... The first episode was just a screener?

it was the first episode, but the "Directors Cut" version, i think the real first episode will be longer (typically).

Which is why technically Macross 25 doesn't have it's own sub-forum yet because technically the series hasn't started yet.



So lets keep posting! Lets be the first to break 1,000 before it even started!

[monir]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Someone missed the memo... Yeah, that sucks doesn't it?

Yes, I agree I need to fire my mailman... but unfortunately he doesn't work for me. Damn him!

Thanks for the heads up, both of you. I'll be looking forward to this show just because I was so impressed with Macross Zero (not expecting anything as grand as Zero in animated effort from the TV series) even though I'm not a mecha fan.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by monir

Yes, I agree I need to fire my mailman... but unfortunately he doesn't work for me. Damn him!

Thanks for the heads up, both of you. I'll be looking forward to this show just because I was so impressed with Macross Zero (not expecting anything as grand as Zero in animated effort from the TV series) even though I'm not a mecha fan.

just impressed with Macross Zero?

Most people are impressed with "Macross Plus"

that was one of the most expensive OVA animation at it's time.

And lets not get into Macross TV series.

Oh. MY. HARUHI!




*Slips in Macross II*

It had a catchy opening theme song and don't care if no one else liked it. I DID!

[CrowKenobi]

I was impressed with Macross Zero... until episode 5 when the WTF meter started going off the scale!

I still haven't been able to understand what the writers were smoking when they wrote that...

[Warsaw]

Originally Posted by Forceflow

@Kimichi

Please to see you enjoyed it (we all did, or at least the vast majority). For starters would recommend you seek out and watch Macross: Do you remember Love and the Macross Plus OVAs. DYRL has alot of background material that will probably be require knowledge when the season finally airs. Plus is for the awesome battles.

DYRL is a rather old movie but the quality has withstood the test of time. Even now its still beautifully detailed.

DYRL is not canon for the background info it might confuse a newcomer to the series. Newcomers to get ready for Frontier should watch the series in the order they were originally released. Macross TV >> DYRL >> Flashaback 2012 >> Plus >> 7 (TV + OVA + movie) >> Zero.

[Warsaw]

Originally Posted by Forceflow

Unfortunately based on info available off the published stats, this theory is false.

New Macross-Class Disposition Details

Macross 7 was the 7th New Macross-Class launched as the 37th Colonisation Fleet in 2038. This number is the full sum of all colony fleets launched. Based on this we have 30 Megaroad-Class vessels launched as well.

By 2051 there have only been 13 New Macross-Classes constructed. Battle 13 itself was destroyed by the end of Macross VF-X2.
(Blew it up. VF-X2 was a god awesome game)

Macross Frontier was launched as the 25th Frontier Fleet. This should put it, timeline-wise, earlier then Macross 7 as one of the other unnamed ones: 1,2,3,4,6. 7 being the titular fleet of Macross 7 and 5 having been destroyed by the Protodeviln.

If we assume that Frontier was named 25 for it being the 25th Fleet then Macross 7 should rightly be named Macross 37. The Macross universe has shown a very precise methodology for its naming of vessels, fleets and craft hence the '25' tag attached confuses a number of us.

Frontier has the 25th new Macross class ship (albeit it looks like a revised design compared to battle 7) . Macross 7 is battle 7 Macross 13 is Battle 13th etc etc until Frontier which is battle 25.

[sheebo]

actually for a new comer to the macross series i suggest watching them in this order

Macross Zero>>SDF Macross>>Macross plus>>(you can watch macross 7 here but trust me it is totally skippable)>>Macross Frontier

and as for what the producers where smoking when they made episode 5 of macross zero is the same feeling i got when i watched it for the first time.
but after reseasrching about the episode i would say i have an 80% idea of what happened.

but the last comment made by Mao Nome about shin on the issue of the tori-nishtu is what really boggeled me.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by sheebo

Macross Zero>>SDF Macross>>Macross plus>>(you can watch macross 7 here but trust me it is totally skippable)>>Macross Frontier

Well... It's kind of hard to take in Macross 7 after the awesome Macross Plus. (Movie or the OVA version, it doesn't matter that much. I prefer the movie though.)

I wish someone told me that back then.

[Warsaw]

Originally Posted by sheebo

actually for a new comer to the macross series i suggest watching them in this order

Macross Zero>>SDF Macross>>Macross plus>>(you can watch macross 7 here but trust me it is totally skippable)>>Macross Frontier

and as for what the producers where smoking when they made episode 5 of macross zero is the same feeling i got when i watched it for the first time.
but after reseasrching about the episode i would say i have an 80% idea of what happened.

but the last comment made by Mao Nome about shin on the issue of the tori-nishtu is what really boggeled me.

Chronological as in the series time line is probably not the best way to do it, Zero as an introduction to the series will probably turn a lot of people off hence why I said in order of release. 7 may have it share of problems but I don't think for anyone who wants to be ready for anything Frontier throws at them can skip it. Some important stuff happens and what Protoculture is and has done is expanded upon as well also I think it helps understand Zero a bit better.

[Forceflow]

Originally Posted by Warsaw

DYRL is not canon for the background info it might confuse a newcomer to the series. Newcomers to get ready for Frontier should watch the series in the order they were originally released. Macross TV >> DYRL >> Flashaback 2012 >> Plus >> 7 (TV + OVA + movie) >> Zero.

It is actually canon. But canon as a In universe movie. And I recommended it as a quick, rough guide to the Macross Universe up to the end of the 1st Space War as asking a newcomer to go and find the entire series of SDF Macross is quite unreasonable and may put people off being introduced to the Macross sphere of material.

Originally Posted by Warsaw

Frontier has the 25th new Macross class ship (albeit it looks like a revised design compared to battle 7) . Macross 7 is battle 7 Macross 13 is Battle 13th etc etc until Frontier which is battle 25.

It cannot be the 25th since it was launched before Macross 7 and 7 was the 7th in its class... =.=!|||

I feel like a broken record. Repeating this part of the argument too many times. I'm just going to dig out screenies, post them and hope it ends at that.


In 2030, New Macross-Class No. 1 "Macross 1" was launched from Earth.


2038, New Macross-Class No. 7 "Macross 7" was launched from Earth as the No. 37th Colony Fleet.


In 2059, the 25th colony fleet led by New Macross-Class "Macross Frontier/25" was moving through space towards the center of the universe.

Chronologically Macross Frontier/25 was launched before 7... Hence it should have been named as one of the unseen New Macross Class numbers excluding 1,5 and 7...

[Warsaw]

Originally Posted by Forceflow

It is actually canon. But canon as a In universe movie. And I recommended it as a quick, rough guide to the Macross Universe up to the end of the 1st Space War as asking a newcomer to go and find the entire series of SDF Macross is quite unreasonable and may put people off being introduced to the Macross sphere of material.



It cannot be the 25th since it was launched before Macross 7 and 7 was the 7th in its class... =.=!|||

I feel like a broken record. Repeating this part of the argument too many times. I'm just going to dig out screenies, post them and hope it ends at that.


In 2030, New Macross-Class No. 1 "Macross 1" was launched from Earth.


2038, New Macross-Class No. 7 "Macross 7" was launched from Earth as the No. 37th Colony Fleet.


In 2059, the 25th colony fleet led by New Macross-Class "Macross Frontier/25" was moving through space towards the center of the universe.

Chronologically Macross Frontier/25 was launched before 7... Hence it should have been named as one of the unseen New Macross Class numbers excluding 1,5 and 7...

DYRL is not canon when it comes to the overall plot of the series if you watch it instead of the TV series it will confuse the viewer later on. Finding the whole TV series isn't as bothersome as you think as its one of the few Macross titles available in the states (dunno about in the rest of the world).

Ok I see whats confusing you, the subtitles state Frontier is the 25th fleet (it means new Macross class fleet not overall) and Macross 7 was 37th overall and 7th new Macross so your thinking Macross 25 >>> Macross 7. When in actuality its Macross 7 >>> 25. The Frontier screen shot says 25th VAST colony fleet (ie New Macross Class). Megaroad ships were small and the only colony ship outside escorts there were 30 of them in total. So if you want to assign a overall number to the Frontier fleet it would be 55th colony fleet but its the 25th anv of the series they are emphasizing New Macross class 25 Battle 25 VF-25, etc etc.

[sheebo]

dear warsaw, why would macross zero turn off alot of people?

its a human-on-human conflict (which a newcomer can easily relate to in a sense of world-war 3)
great graphics, great music, Excellent animation quality.
introduces the protoculture theory, genetic engineering, roy fokker, veritch-fighter (to fight a giant alien species) and gives the audience a detailed account of what happened from 1999-2010 which in the SDF macross takes a few seconds showing the progress on the ASS-1 and macross city growing.
imho its a great starter for a newcomer.


also macross 7 did not introduce any significant information about the protoculture race other than they created-then-sealed the proto-devlin.
it actually concentrated alot on the emotional and singing aspects of the characters , fighting (which is a Major reason why some might watch macross ) took a back seat. plus i dont know if im biased or not but i believe that Basara is to Emo/shallow of a character. plus it was directed by the creator of Bakusou Kyoudai Let's & Go!!, I Love Bubu Chacha, Amino Tetsuro. unlike the rest of the series (not all though) that was directed or co-directed by shoji kawamori. it also helps to say that Macross 7 did not do very well in japan or outside of japan

[Warsaw]

Originally Posted by sheebo

dear warsaw, why would macross zero turn off alot of people?

its a human-on-human conflict (which a newcomer can easily relate to in a sense of world-war 3)
great graphics, great music, Excellent animation quality.
introduces the protoculture theory, genetic engineering, roy fokker, veritch-fighter (to fight a giant alien species) and gives the audience a detailed account of what happened from 1999-2010 which in the SDF macross takes a few seconds showing the progress on the ASS-1 and macross city growing.
imho its a great starter for a newcomer.

From my experience many Macross fans aren't thrilled with it when it comes to the story, so I can imagine what someone who has never seen any Macross might react negatively and not watch the original TV series because of it. The original series touches on many of those points you mentioned but Zero merely expands and elaborates on some of what you see and know.

From what I've read Macross 7 was popular in Japan, but like I said watching 7 is good for someone who wants to be ready for whatever Frontier throws at them.

[4Tran]

For anyone who's unfamiliar with the Macross franchise, the best place to start is the original: SDF Macross. Obviously, it's the very first Macross work, and it introduces the setting and just about all of the concepts of Macross are based on it. The main drawback is that it's 25 years old, and older works simply don't appeal to everyone.

The other good start point is Macross Plus. It's a much newer work and its animation still holds up fairly well. It also doesn't rely on too much experience from SDF Macross to enjoy, and its a very fun show in its own right. The main drawback here is that a lot of the concepts are glossed over - in particular the details about the Zentradi, protoculture, and the impact of music/culture.

To be honest though, Macross is a fairly easy universe to ease into simply because each of the works is so different from the others, and because most of the concepts and conceits are fairly easy to absorb. I think that it's even good for non-mecha fans (heck, I'm probably one of them) simply because the mecha play such a minor role in the stories. Even in the most mecha-centric of the works, Macross Plus, the main focus is the Isamu-Guld-Myung relationship, and most of the mecha action is used to highlight their interaction.

[SuperKnuckles]

I don't know about Plus since it literally drops you right into the middle of things while if you watched the earlier Macross shows, you could understand the references and setting a lot better. Also, it being an impressively animated OVA, it might heighten one's expectation a tad far.

I think Zero is a good starting point in a way (though still might make you get spoiled about other shows' visual quality), since it is nothing like the other Macross shows (so you wouldn't have to complain that it doesn't later on) and it's a good feeler on the mechanics of the VF fighters and the whole atmosphere of the unification war before the Zentraedi stuff. I think going by time-line works very well since now, we have a really good, newer series to look forward to. I think Macross 7 can be skipped, much like something like Gundam X or Gundam ZZ, the black sheep of respective franchises, but I think going by timeline works best.

I also don't think the first Macross show is that much of a shock to watch nowadays since it was so well animated for its time. I'm re-watching it now and it still looks pretty crisp overall, though the style is quite... ancient. And it still shames me to remember what happened to the Hikaru seiyuu.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I don't know about Plus since it literally drops you right into the middle of things while if you watched the earlier Macross shows, you could understand the references and setting a lot better. Also, it being an impressively animated OVA, it might heighten one's expectation a tad far.

While Macross Plus does drop the viewer into the middle of the universe, it isn't really necessary to understand most of those glossed-over portions of the setting either. About the only concern would be that there isn't much explanation about the Macross and Macross City. Other than that, everything else is self-contained in the prototype testing competition and the Sharon Apple concerts. As for the artwork, anyone who's put off by older artwork wouldn't be interested in watching the older works in the first place, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I think Zero is a good starting point in a way (though still might make you get spoiled about other shows' visual quality), since it is nothing like the other Macross shows (so you wouldn't have to complain that it doesn't later on) and it's a good feeler on the mechanics of the VF fighters and the whole atmosphere of the unification war before the Zentraedi stuff. I think going by time-line works very well since now, we have a really good, newer series to look forward to.

Technically, it's not necessary to know any of this background information. The real problem with Macross Zero is that it works primarily on a metaphysical level and it purposefully verges away from the down-to-earth of most of the other works. Zero's narrative isn't quite strong enough to pull this trick off, and as a result, it's graphics greatly outstrip its storytelling.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I think Macross 7 can be skipped, much like something like Gundam X or Gundam ZZ, the black sheep of respective franchises, but I think going by timeline works best.

The Macross shows are separate enough from each other that you can safely skip any of them.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I also don't think the first Macross show is that much of a shock to watch nowadays since it was so well animated for its time. I'm re-watching it now and it still looks pretty crisp overall, though the style is quite... ancient.

For sure, many of us aren't going to care about how SDF Macross looks. And in fact, I find that a lot of the animation choice it made are still fairly innovative today. However, that doesn't apply for everyone, and the abject failure of Mobile Suit Gundam is proof that an awful lot of people just aren't interested in older works.

As an aside, SDF Macross is not just my favorite of the Macross works, but it's my fourth-favorite anime period; so I'll be about the first person to extoll its virtues.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I think Macross 7 can be skipped, much like something like Gundam X or Gundam ZZ, the black sheep of respective franchises, but I think going by timeline works best.

Macross 7 has been quite the polarizing series among Macross fans. Others adore it, the rest pretty much dislike it. I find it hard to recommend to a newcomer who has no background knowledge of the franchise in the first place, since I too feel somewhat ambivalent towards it.

In my opinion, a good starting point for any hesitating newcomer would still be the movie, DYRL. The overall plot may be different, but the main gist or idea remains intact in crystalized form. (Not to mention, it's newer and prettier too, and thus "more watchable" in this day and age.) It also doesn't require the viewer to spend a lot of time compared to watching an entire series. If the movie impresses and interests the viewer, then by all means go for the main series. Come to think of it, ADV has made a new release of the first Macross (read: not Robotech), and hopefully it's not that difficult to find.

Now Macross Plus on the other hand, is simply a gem. The robots really take a backseat to the main story, which is essentially all about Isamu, Myung and Guld's relationship. In this sense, I don't think anyone will be that troubled of jumping right in.

[sheebo]

I happen to agree with superknuckles that macross zero is the best start for the series, Macross Plus does not explain any major aspect of the macross univurse, it does not even explain the zentradi race, it is by far a great anime but it depends on the viewers historical knowledge of the macross world. but it has the advantage if you just want to watch a good aircraft/mecha anime without really careing about the big picture. macross plus is simply to narrow for a newcomer to be introduced by it into the macross world.




as for zero, it delivers high intensity battles, introduces the mecha/veritech, introduces the protoculture and the theory of genetic manipulation of mankind, introduces the ASS-1 and the over-technology developed to fight the yet-unknown Zentradi, its fast paced, introduces the mystical power of singing in this universe. there is no doubt that zero's graphics > story but if you place it in the context of a starter or hooker for a newcomer it is farly superior to macross plus. macross plus does very few of the things i stated in this paragraph

i believe that your saying that any are skippable is that they are each an independant story that can be viewed seperatley, but macross 7 is totally skippable since it does not provide any significant new angle into the macross world. other than song energy and proto-devlin. plus it was the least "macrossy" of all the macross created until this moment. SDF, PLUS, ZERO are Defintly not skippable.