AnimeSuki Forums

JagdPanther · 2016-05-06, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

There is the potential for a Force Ghost Anakin in VIII, but there is also the slim chance of him in the suit for Rogue One. The last Darth Vader suit Lucasfilm made for the films was fitted for Christensen.

Ugh. Changing the Force Ghost to Hayden Christensen was such a horrific decision.

Rising Dragon · 2016-05-06, 20:49

I must be the only one who didn't have much of a problem with it.

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2016-05-06, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I must be the only one who didn't have much of a problem with it.

I dislike (if not hate) the decision of changing into Hayden’s ghost in SW6 mostly because it reminds me of all the cringe-inducing lines he delivered in SW 2 & 3 as Anakin. Also, I like Sebastian Shaw’s warm and happy look a lot more than Hayden’s leer

.

JagdPanther · 2016-05-07, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I dislike (if not hate) the decision of changing into Hayden’s ghost in SW6 mostly because it reminds me of all the cringe-inducing lines he delivered in SW 2 & 3 as Anakin. Also, I like Sebastian Shaw’s warm and happy look a lot more than Hayden’s leer

.

Besides that, for me, it damages Anakin's redemption. If you make Hayden Christensen the Force Ghost, then you're saying you really can't redeem that current person. You can just have them revert to what they once were. To me, having Sebastian Shaw as the Force Ghost means that the Anakin of that moment was redeemed.

That and, from a purely practical point of view, Luke either goes, "Yeah, that's the guy I just saw a short time ago when he asked me to take his mask off," vs. "Who the hell is that guy next to Ben and Yoda?"

Shinji103 · 2016-05-08, 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I must be the only one who didn't have much of a problem with it.

I was fine with it. I'm probably the only one here who didn't hate the prequel trilogy in the first place. Were they as awesome as the original trilogy? Honestly, no, but they weren't trash like I've heard the haters say either.
And I'm down for having ghost Anakin in Star Wars 8. I've actually been hoping for it a bit. It would make sense for Aanakin to be by his sons side, just as Obi-Wan stayed by Luke's side in the original trilogy, giving him advice and encouragement. Kylo Ren idolizes Vader, after all. Anakin is already involved right there.

Seafoam · 2016-05-08, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I was fine with it. I'm probably the only one here who didn't hate the prequel trilogy in the first place. Were they as awesome as the original trilogy? Honestly, no, but they weren't trash like I've heard the haters say either.
And I'm down for having ghost Anakin in Star Wars 8. I've actually been hoping for it a bit. It would make sense for Aanakin to be by his sons side, just as Obi-Wan stayed by Luke's side in the original trilogy, giving him advice and encouragement. Kylo Ren idolizes Vader, after all. Anakin is already involved right there.

Agreed. My only issue with the prequels is the dialogue. The actual story, combat and setting was great.

Ithekro · 2016-05-08, 12:23

The setting and concept of the prequels works. The dialogue and direction could have been better. That the first two cheers from the audience in Revenge of the Sith were for R2-D2 beating droids probably says something about it.

The Revenge of the Sith novel is awesomely detailed. If that could have been shown in the film, it could have rivalled The Empire Strikes Back. The opening battle and prelude to it in the novel along with the duel between Dooku, Anakin, and Obi-wan is quite good and exciting in the novel. I still love the description of how the Clone Wars is going for the average Republic citizen at the start. About how the war is going and how many Jedi have fallen so far. Both to the droid armies and to the Dark Side. The Adults are in fear and Coruscant is under attack and the Chancellor has been captured. However the Children know the battle over Coruscant will be alright, because Skywalker and Kenobi will be there. The Adults have doubts but try to show a good face for their children. But the children are right, because Skywalker and Kenobi are there saving the day.

Also the duel to told from Dooku's point of view for most of it. It get his internal commentary about Obi-wan and Anakin's fighting styles at first and how Dooku is more or less just playing along without them being too much of a challenge. That is until is challenges Obi-wan on the matter. At which point Obi-wan accepts the challenge and both he and Anakin switching into some seriously more advanced styles of fighting, which throws Dooku off his game. Obi-wan goes full defensive mode with light strikes from time to time, which tests Dooku's patience, then when he can finally get away from Kenobi, Skywalker is there on full brutal assault mode. Beating Dooku's defenses down by force. Essentially Darth Vader's style of fighting. This forces Dooku to put up a real fight, and gives him "a bad feeling about this."

TnAdct1 · 2016-05-08, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

Besides that, for me, it damages Anakin's redemption. If you make Hayden Christensen the Force Ghost, then you're saying you really can't redeem that current person. You can just have them revert to what they once were. To me, having Sebastian Shaw as the Force Ghost means that the Anakin of that moment was redeemed.

That and, from a purely practical point of view, Luke either goes, "Yeah, that's the guy I just saw a short time ago when he asked me to take his mask off," vs. "Who the hell is that guy next to Ben and Yoda?"

OTOH, let's look at things another way: it was years before I got the point that the third ghost was supposed to be Luke's father if he aged properly instead of becoming Darth Vader. With the change coinciding with the release of the prequels, it would be easier for viewers to realize who that third ghost is alongside Obi-Wan and Yoda.

Ithekro · 2016-05-08, 18:58

Anakin Skywalker was basically 45 years old when he died on the Second Death Star.

JagdPanther · 2016-05-08, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

OTOH, let's look at things another way: it was years before I got the point that the third ghost was supposed to be Luke's father if he aged properly instead of becoming Darth Vader. With the change coinciding with the release of the prequels, it would be easier for viewers to realize who that third ghost is alongside Obi-Wan and Yoda.

I guess I kind of always assumed that the audience could identify the dude they just saw a few minutes before.

That's not meant to be a barb at you or sarcastic. Just a plain statement. I figured people would make that link.

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2016-05-08, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

OTOH, let's look at things another way: it was years before I got the point that the third ghost was supposed to be Luke's father if he aged properly instead of becoming Darth Vader. With the change coinciding with the release of the prequels, it would be easier for viewers to realize who that third ghost is alongside Obi-Wan and Yoda.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

I guess I kind of always assumed that the audience could identify the dude they just saw a few minutes before.

That's not meant to be a barb at you or sarcastic. Just a plain statement. I figured people would make that link.

I agree with JagdPanther. Most of the audience should be able to notice Sebastian Shaw’s ghost as the redeemed Anakin/Vader. Not only because his unmasked face was already shown a few minutes before in the same movie, but logic-wise, there’s no way SW6 will show a random Jedi ghost at the end of the movie for Luke to see. It must be someone important to Luke and that left no one but Anakin/Vader. Heck, my 10 yo nephew was able to tell it instantly the first time he saw it years ago, and he’s not even a native English speaker.

Rising Dragon · 2016-05-08, 20:26

Well, ultimately...

I suppose it hardly matters now.

Shinji103 · 2016-05-08, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I agree with JagdPanther. Most of the audience should be able to notice Sebastian Shaw’s ghost as the redeemed Anakin/Vader. Not only because his unmasked face was already shown a few minutes before in the same movie, but logic-wise, there’s no way SW6 will show a random Jedi ghost at the end of the movie for Luke to see. It must be someone important to Luke and that left no one but Anakin/Vader. Heck, my 10 yo nephew was able to tell it instantly the first time he saw it years ago, and he’s not even a native English speaker.

Never assume people will connect anything. Every day, I see dozens of people lacking that kind of common sense. It's sad, but people in general are stupid and severely lacking in the common sense we preach about. I see it every day, and I've still been surprised by what people can't figure out. And I'm not just talking about movies.

TnAdct1 · 2016-05-09, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

I guess I kind of always assumed that the audience could identify the dude they just saw a few minutes before.

That's not meant to be a barb at you or sarcastic. Just a plain statement. I figured people would make that link.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I agree with JagdPanther. Most of the audience should be able to notice Sebastian Shaw’s ghost as the redeemed Anakin/Vader. Not only because his unmasked face was already shown a few minutes before in the same movie, but logic-wise, there’s no way SW6 will show a random Jedi ghost at the end of the movie for Luke to see. It must be someone important to Luke and that left no one but Anakin/Vader. Heck, my 10 yo nephew was able to tell it instantly the first time he saw it years ago, and he’s not even a native English speaker.

Yeah, older viewers would definitely grasp the concept that the third ghost is supposed to be Anakin. However, when I first saw Return of the Jedi via VHS tape, I was only five years old at the time. Hence, while it's easier for kids that age to understand the ghost of Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end, they probably aren't going to understand who that third ghost is going to be (even with the scene where Vader is unmasked).

Anh_Minh · 2016-05-09, 16:12

I didn't even realize the third ghost had the same face as de-helmeted Vader. I just assumed it was him, because who else would it be?

JagdPanther · 2016-05-09, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

Yeah, older viewers would definitely grasp the concept that the third ghost is supposed to be Anakin. However, when I first saw Return of the Jedi via VHS tape, I was only five years old at the time. Hence, while it's easier for kids that age to understand the ghost of Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end, they probably aren't going to understand who that third ghost is going to be (even with the scene where Vader is unmasked).

I get that, and I can understand the argument even if I don't agree that it's that hard of a connection to make even at a younger age. That's why, regardless, my main argument continues to be from the story-telling perspective of, "Well, then you're saying that Anakin wasn't actually redeemed in the end."

This bugs me the same way that "Greedo Shot First" bugs me. It flips a key story/character point on its side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well, ultimately...

Spoiler:

I suppose it hardly matters now.

That is amazing.

Ithekro · 2016-05-09, 20:56

Or perhaps redemption repaired the damage caused to his body and replaced is limbs. The luminous being inside that was Anakin Skywalker, not the husk of crude matter that was Darth Vader.

He was 45 years old when he died. Shaw was in his late 70s I think. That was the reason I thought Anakin would have been Obi-wan's age in the Prequels.

2016-05-06, 20:49	Link #662
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	I must be the only one who didn't have much of a problem with it. __________________

2016-05-08, 12:23	Link #667
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The setting and concept of the prequels works. The dialogue and direction could have been better. That the first two cheers from the audience in Revenge of the Sith were for R2-D2 beating droids probably says something about it. The Revenge of the Sith novel is awesomely detailed. If that could have been shown in the film, it could have rivalled The Empire Strikes Back. The opening battle and prelude to it in the novel along with the duel between Dooku, Anakin, and Obi-wan is quite good and exciting in the novel. I still love the description of how the Clone Wars is going for the average Republic citizen at the start. About how the war is going and how many Jedi have fallen so far. Both to the droid armies and to the Dark Side. The Adults are in fear and Coruscant is under attack and the Chancellor has been captured. However the Children know the battle over Coruscant will be alright, because Skywalker and Kenobi will be there. The Adults have doubts but try to show a good face for their children. But the children are right, because Skywalker and Kenobi are there saving the day. Also the duel to told from Dooku's point of view for most of it. It get his internal commentary about Obi-wan and Anakin's fighting styles at first and how Dooku is more or less just playing along without them being too much of a challenge. That is until is challenges Obi-wan on the matter. At which point Obi-wan accepts the challenge and both he and Anakin switching into some seriously more advanced styles of fighting, which throws Dooku off his game. Obi-wan goes full defensive mode with light strikes from time to time, which tests Dooku's patience, then when he can finally get away from Kenobi, Skywalker is there on full brutal assault mode. Beating Dooku's defenses down by force. Essentially Darth Vader's style of fighting. This forces Dooku to put up a real fight, and gives him "a bad feeling about this." __________________

2016-05-08, 18:58	Link #669
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Anakin Skywalker was basically 45 years old when he died on the Second Death Star. __________________

2016-05-08, 20:26	Link #672
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Well, ultimately... I suppose it hardly matters now. __________________

2016-05-09, 20:56	Link #677
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Or perhaps redemption repaired the damage caused to his body and replaced is limbs. The luminous being inside that was Anakin Skywalker, not the husk of crude matter that was Darth Vader. He was 45 years old when he died. Shaw was in his late 70s I think. That was the reason I thought Anakin would have been Obi-wan's age in the Prequels. __________________

2016-05-09, 16:12	Link #675
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	I didn't even realize the third ghost had the same face as de-helmeted Vader. I just assumed it was him, because who else would it be?