(L) Overlord [LN]

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

Don't misunderstand, I also think Ainz is a hero, to both his subjects and everyone else. With way he rules, once he finishes conquering the world, everyone's lives will be much better anyway, a few people dying in the process is just necessary sacrifices. Actually, any sane protagonist is likely the hero in their own story, few exception are complete sociopath and psychopath on the Joker's level who only want to see the world burns.

I asked because I wanted to know how the author treated their protagonist in their story. I didn't read 2 others, but with the way the author of Mahouka treats him, he's literally Jesus of his story. He had no fault, all of his killing are justified by the author, whenever he killed someone, that person was depicted by the author as either complete scumbag or really deserved to die. It's not about meta-reason like "people killed in war" but how the author villainized the protagonist's victims to make readers feel good with him killing them, just like how he massacred those evil communists.

Oh sorry then, I misunderstood you. Well in mushoku, the mc join the war to help his friend from dying and he was "force" the kill the other side since it's war and all and the other side weren't portray as evil or anything just some reason why the war started no scene of enemy soldier burning down villages raping and killing innocence villager, none of that. As for hachinan, mc get drag into a civil war he have no business being in so a man gotta do what he gotta do to go home. As for mahouka, no comment.
Also ainz ruling the world could finally end the whole human living in fear of Demi human, as we all saw how ainz treat his subject. Being under a boss like him don't seem that bad.

[Breimn]

Giving a look at wikia it says there is a total of 6 mikos (maybe one for each faction?) so that would mean only 4 left?Can anyone confirm where it was said they only had 6 mikos?

[expertsource]

has anyone discussed or thought that how ygradis game world didn't shut down? i have a theory i want to express.
here is my theory: someone used one of the greatest world class item to Ygdrasild to maintain which is based on wish like "wish upon a star". after this event, game maintaned and transformed into something both same and different depend on the kind of wish.

edit: when i saw the magic "wish upon a star" and heard the power of a world class item. i said this must be it. someone used a world class item to change the whole that world with a wish. and that game world changed and maintained. and somehow teleported player with periods of centuries based on something unknown which is related with the wish.

[J4n1]

Ainz is a villain protagonist, not a hero.
Sure, sometimes he might do heroic things, but he also does evil things.
At best you could see the situation as a choice between immortal uncaring tyrant, and succession of separate governments of varying power and competence fighting for power.

Sure, the tyrant is a tyrant, but mostly he will probably leave you alone provided you don't do anything stupid.
Where as the current situation is constantly at the edge of disaster and war, and can cause situations like the annual war between kingdom and empire, or the raid form Theocracy in volume 1.

On the whole, Ainz taking over the world will probably, in the long run, end with less death and misery, but with the cost of occasional, targeted hell on earth to some people who end up in Demiurge's sheep farms.

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by J4n1

Ainz is a villain protagonist, not a hero.
Sure, sometimes he might do heroic things, but he also does evil things.
At best you could see the situation as a choice between immortal uncaring tyrant, and succession of separate governments of varying power and competence fighting for power.

Sure, the tyrant is a tyrant, but mostly he will probably leave you alone provided you don't do anything stupid.
Where as the current situation is constantly at the edge of disaster and war, and can cause situations like the annual war between kingdom and empire, or the raid form Theocracy in volume 1.

On the whole, Ainz taking over the world will probably, in the long run, end with less death and misery, but with the cost of occasional, targeted hell on earth to some people who end up in Demiurge's sheep farms.

Problem is what criteria are we using to judge whether he is a hero or not. Are we judging based on whether he kill people or not? If that is the case then pretty much majority of wn mc don't fit being call a hero. Not only that ainz is pretty much "force" to do the thing he is doing to keep up the act of an overlord in order to keep all nazarick in check. Try to imagine what would happen to the new world if ainz wasn't keeping nazarick in check. Sure demiurge farm will grow in the future but it will mostly contain bad guy or people opposing them, once they become his subject they won't to send there. Heck without ainz, demiurge would have turn the entire kingdom into an sheep farm right about now. Hey him keeping the human race from extinction and from a life of living hell is a good enough reason to call him a "hero" a dark hero who is a tyrant might fit better.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

Problem is what criteria are we using to judge whether he is a hero or not. Are we judging based on whether he kill people or not? If that is the case then pretty much majority of wn mc don't fit being call a hero. Not only that ainz is pretty much "force" to do the thing he is doing to keep up the act of an overlord in order to keep all nazarick in check. Try to imagine what would happen to the new world if ainz wasn't keeping nazarick in check. Sure demiurge farm will grow in the future but it will mostly contain bad guy or people opposing them, once they become his subject they won't to send there. Heck with ainz, demiurge would have turn the entire kingdom into an sheep farm right about now.

My criteria for a Hero would be Actions+Motives+Goals.
Actions:
He has saved some people, but he has also done some pretty horrific things (most of volume 7 for instance)
Motives:
He acts mostly on self preservation and pride, and occasionally due to anger, but he is not really setting out to save anyone (except maybe himself, or people he personally knows and approves of).
Goals:
Survival and Self preservation

I do not count world domination as a goal, because it was kinda sprung on him and i'd classify it more as a method of eaching his goals anyway.

Yes, things would be lot worse without him, but i think the world would be able to deal with Nazaric in the end (though with immense cost and heavy casualties) like they did with 8 Greed Kings.


I think Ainz combines elements of a "Noble Demon", "Anti Villain" and "Necessarily Evil".
Other appropriate tropes would be "Evil virtues" and "Even Evil has Standards".
Ainz and the people of Nazaric are not two dimensional card board villains, they are complex, and sometimes even sympathetic, but if they were not the point of view characters, they would most certainly be villains (and the story would be a tragedy).

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by J4n1

My criteria for a Hero would be Actions+Motives+Goals.
Actions:
He has saved some people, but he has also done some pretty horrific things (most of volume 7 for instance)
Motives:
He acts mostly on self preservation and pride, and occasionally due to anger, but he is not really setting out to save anyone (except maybe himself, or people he personally knows and approves of).
Goals:
Survival and Self preservation

I do not count world domination as a goal, because it was kinda sprung on him and i'd classify it more as a method of eaching his goals anyway.

Yes, things would be lot worse without him, but i think the world would be able to deal with Nazaric in the end (though with immense cost and heavy casualties) like they did with 8 Greed Kings.


I think Ainz combines elements of a "Noble Demon", "Anti Villain" and "Necessarily Evil".
Other appropriate tropes would be "Evil virtues" and "Even Evil has Standards".
Ainz and the people of Nazaric are not two dimensional card board villains, they are complex, and sometimes even sympathetic, but if they were not the point of view characters, they would most certainly be villains (and the story would be a tragedy).

I understand where you are coming from but you fail to realize the thing in vol.7 have nothing to do with him, sure he give the order to lure people in but he didn't force them to go in there did he, it was their own choice and the plan was mostly created by demiurge so what do you expect him to do, said hell no? Remember he have to keep up with the act. As for motive pretty much majority of wn mc are the same with him, they act on self preservation just like him and they don't really goes out if their way to save people they don't know.
The greed king did manage to rule the world for a while though and we don't even known what races they were, nazarick on the other hand hate human, can you imagine what living would be like under them without ainz keeping them in check would be like?

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by J4n1

Yes, things would be lot worse without him, but i think the world would be able to deal with Nazaric in the end (though with immense cost and heavy casualties) like they did with 8 Greed Kings.

Just wanna say that...the world did not deal with the 8 Greed Kings, they pretty much killed everything that opposed them and conquered what they wanted. They were destroyed because they started fighting among each other, the only other beings of the same power.
Now, it could be argued that the Platinum Dragon Lord might had had a hand in turning them against one another but in the end, even he was not strong enough to deal with them so they had to destroy themselves from within.
Without Ainz, the denizens of Nazarick would not have a single leader but they would still focus on what they are programmed to do, preserve Nazarick. Instead of conquering the world like the 8 Greed Kings did, they would either just shut themselves out or eradicate the world of all those NOT from Nazarick. That is a lot different from conquering the world.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

I understand where you are coming from but you fail to realize the thing in vol.7 have nothing to do with him, sure he give the order to lure people in but he didn't force them to go in there did he, it was their own choice and the plan was mostly created by demiurge so what do you expect him to do, said hell no? Remember he have to keep up with the act. As for action pretty much majority of wn mc are the same with him, they act on self preservation just like him and they don't really goes out if their way to save people they don't know.
The greed king did manage to rule the world for a while though and we don't even known what races they were, nazarick on the other hand hate human, can you imagine what living would be like under them without ainz keeping them in check would be like?

Vol. 7 has everything to do with him.
Demiurge is loyal to Ainz, and would change plans if told to.

Ultimately, Ainz is in charge of Nazaric, and beyond them disobeying his orders (or acting outside of them), he is ultimately responsible for things.
And, even apart from that, he could have spared, or at least killed quickly, the party that reached the arena, he did not (because he got angry).

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Just wanna say that...the world did not deal with the 8 Greed Kings, they pretty much killed everything that opposed them and conquered what they wanted. They were destroyed because they started fighting among each other, the only other beings of the same power.
Now, it could be argued that the Platinum Dragon Lord might had had a hand in turning them against one another but in the end, even he was not strong enough to deal with them so they had to destroy themselves from within.
Without Ainz, the denizens of Nazarick would not have a single leader but they would still focus on what they are programmed to do, preserve Nazarick. Instead of conquering the world like the 8 Greed Kings did, they would either just shut themselves out or eradicate the world of all those NOT from Nazarick. That is a lot different from conquering the world.

I don't think the guardians would have had the drive to leave Nazaric, or the cohesion to act as a group long enough to destroy the world, especially with differing personalities and different morality alignments.

I think over confidence, and acting at cross purposes would eventually have been their downfall.
Could be wrong though.

[Breimn]

Albedo is the Overseer of guardians and the highest ranked member after the supreme lords. So they would still have someone to lead them.Tough Sebas may disagree with a a few things he should be quite loyal to nazarick itself too.

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by J4n1

Vol. 7 has everything to do with him.
Demiurge is loyal to Ainz, and would change plans if told to.

Ultimately, Ainz is in charge of Nazaric, and beyond them disobeying his orders (or acting outside of them), he is ultimately responsible for things.
And, even apart from that, he could have spared, or at least killed quickly, the party that reached the arena, he did not (because he got angry).



I don't think the guardians would have had the drive to leave Nazaric, or the cohesion to act as a group long enough to destroy the world, especially with differing personalities and different morality alignments.

I think over confidence, and acting at cross purposes would eventually have been their downfall.
Could be wrong though.

They pretty much force the whole world domination down his throat, if he was really in control, he would have been like hell no, but he is constantly force to keep up the act and live up to their expectation and fear revolt from them a lot. Where it's that you see he have the freedom to do what ever he pleases from? Also the worker pretty much lie to his face in front of the guardian which were standing next to him too, sure he let his anger to take over but hey it happen to all of us.

As for the guardian, do you really think they would just stay comp up in the tomb forever? Even some one like demiurge, they are bound to get bore since they have nothing to do, cocytus constantly goes on and on about have nothing to do or to prove himself, so without ainz, I am pretty sure they would travel outside and turn everything into a living hell.

[ChuckE]

Ainz is neither hero nor villain. He's just a king of Nazarick, who had to keep in control his subordinates.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

They pretty much force the whole world domination down his throat, if he was really in control, he would have been like hell no, but he is constantly force to keep up the act and live up to their expectation and fear revolt from them a lot. Where it's that you see he have the freedom to do what ever he pleases from? Also the worker pretty much lie to his face in front of the guardian which were standing next to him too, sure he let his anger to take over but hey it happen to all of us.

As for the guardian, do you really think they would just stay comp up in the tomb forever? Even some one like demiurge, they are bound to get bore since they have nothing to do, cocytus constantly goes on and on about have nothing to do or to prove himself, so without ainz, I am pretty sure they would travel outside and turn everything into a living hell.

They brought up world domination because they think it is what he wants.
And he is in control, he just lacks to confidence to countermand the guardians unless he can appear to do so in a way that uphelds their expectations of him as the supreme being.

To Ainz, it is more important to take care of Nazaric and remain as the leader/father figure of the creations of him and his friends.
Rest of the world, eh, acceptable losses.

As for what would happen without Ainz, is kinda irrelevant on whether Ainz is villain or hero.
Ainz might be a lesser evil compared to Nazaric without him, but that does not make him heroic or not a villain.

[Mangafreak44]

A good thing that I can see with Ainz conquering the human kingdoms is that they would no longer have to fear the monsters beyond their lands because at that point the guardians of the Tomb would no longer see them as disposable humans but things that Ainz owns, and as such anyone who would take or defile a possession of their master should die and nothing but Dragon Lords can oppose them with any credible level of force.

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by J4n1

They brought up world domination because they think it is what he wants.
And he is in control, he just lacks to confidence to countermand the guardians unless he can appear to do so in a way that uphelds their expectations of him as the supreme being.

To Ainz, it is more important to take care of Nazaric and remain as the leader/father figure of the creations of him and his friends.
Rest of the world, eh, acceptable losses.

As for what would happen without Ainz, is kinda irrelevant on whether Ainz is villain or hero.
Ainz might be a lesser evil compared to Nazaric without him, but that does not make him heroic or not a villain.

Yes he is in control but the problem he don't know when this will change, he is doing to best he can to please them by acting the perfect ruler they want. Him lacking confidence is understandable considering that a lot of those guy can freaking kill him.
Him being a lesser evil or not is questionable cause all the evil thing that happen are out of his control and he is doing them to please his subject, if he were the one planning the whole world domination crap and coming up with the plan and stuff then yeah I will agree he is evil and a villain but he is not though, he is basically being pressure into doing them. If when he is killing people and his inner mind said something like "hahaha die you insect" then I will agree he is a villain.

And ainz being in control of nazarick is not irrelevant to the subject of him being a hero or villain. A hero is someone that save people or keep damage to a minimum, which ainz can be said to be doing since he is keeping a leash on nazarick.

[Randrak42]

I dunno why...but I have a feeling that the world has only seen a couple of level 100s. We know that not everyone that goes through are level 100, like the two members of the 13 heroes and aside from the 6 Gods and the 8 Kings, we don't hear anything regarding the other players. One would think that other level 100s would have created major ripples in the world.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

A hero is someone that save people or keep damage to a minimum, which ainz can be said to be doing since he is keeping a leash on nazarick.

Considering his actions in vol.8, i'd say Ainz is disqualified then.
The Overlord novels don't really work well with hero/villain dichotomy, there are pure heroic characters (Climb, Gazef) and pure villains (Demiurge), but most are a mix of traits where the hero/villain monikers can largely depend on which side you are on (kinda like real life).

To Nazaric, Ainz is a hero.
To everyone else, he is a villain.
The best thing one can say that he is somewhat reluctant villain, and a pragmatic one that takes no pleasure in useless carnage or suffering.
But a villain he is, it is the role he play, however reluctantly, and much of the humor in the series comes from the dichotomy of his actions, and how others percieve him (like the audience with the emperor scene).

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

I dunno why...but I have a feeling that the world has only seen a couple of level 100s. We know that not everyone that goes through are level 100, like the two members of the 13 heroes and aside from the 6 Gods and the 8 Kings, we don't hear anything regarding the other players. One would think that other level 100s would have created major ripples in the world.

there was a mention of a minotaur hero who came up with stuff like freezers and "electric" fans.
No mention of level though, so lot of previous players might have been low to mid levels, powerful enough to have effect on national level, but not big enough to shape the world like level 100 players.

[babbo3d]

Ah i want volume 10 this will be the first that truly deviates from the webnovel, the rest more or less resemble it.

[dragonking9]

........2pages long of pointless arguments and speculation but no one had answer mine original question! any confirmation if the author is a guy or a woman? instead we stray way off topic about a topic that has no real answer to........