Firefox, Opera or Internet Explorer

[Blizzer]

I like Firefox because of all the add-ons like Downthemall.

[Vexx]

There was some MMO that made the insane decision to run their launcher as an ActiveX widget. It probably cost them over a third of their tech-savvy audience until they finally broke down and admitted it was a Bad Idea to use ActiveX on the Internet. By then their buzz-momentum was gone...

ActiveX is fabulous for company INTRAnets who have lots of apps and widgets built on an MS environment, say with Outlook and business apps - strictly for internal use. Its complete idiocy on the "wild" Internet as any survey of security community whizzes will tell you.

[Epyon9283]

I'd shun activex even on a corporate intranet. If its insecure on the internet then its insecure on an intranet. Attacks from the inside are a real threat. Secure your internal resources or risk data loss/leaks.

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by Vexx

There was some MMO that made the insane decision to run their launcher as an ActiveX widget. It probably cost them over a third of their tech-savvy audience until they finally broke down and admitted it was a Bad Idea to use ActiveX on the Internet. By then their buzz-momentum was gone...

ActiveX is fabulous for company INTRAnets who have lots of apps and widgets built on an MS environment, say with Outlook and business apps - strictly for internal use. Its complete idiocy on the "wild" Internet as any survey of security community whizzes will tell you.

Now if only THE PEOPLE OF JAPAN would understand the same thing about ActiveX so their game producers would stop using moronic ActiveX login schemes...

No comments on ActiveX on the internal networks except to say that, for reasons I certainly don't need to go into, you'll never see it on mine.

As for the thread topic of browsers:
- Konqueror on KDE
- Firefox on Windows and GNOME
- Safari on OS X

Opera sees no use from me because I find it to be ugly and clunky. I've been a fan for a long time (I remember the day when it was the browser advertised as fitting on a floppy; Handy when you're stuck on a 386!), but despite all the innovative features I just find it thoroughly unusable. That's really sad, because I want to love it.

Internet Explorer is used only long enough to download another browser. I'd prevent any of my users from opening it at all if it weren't for all the business websites they must use IE to access. I cannot describe the depth of my seething hatred for IE. On any given web design project, over half my time is spent fixing IE bugs. Don't even get me started on all the security holes that have caused me problems over the years...

[Phantom-Takaya]

It would seem Safari has been made by Apple for Windows. I just recently got a "download and install" request by QuickTime/iTunes update for Safari. The brief description actually says it's the Windows version of the browser. Looks like Apple's jumped into the competition.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

Opera sees no use from me because I find it to be ugly and clunky. I've been a fan for a long time (I remember the day when it was the browser advertised as fitting on a floppy; Handy when you're stuck on a 386!), but despite all the innovative features I just find it thoroughly unusable. That's really sad, because I want to love it.

Ugly and clunky? I'm a little surprised so I have to ask, have you tried skinning Opera? There are some really nice looking skins. Also, if you don't like the button layout it is really easy to change.

I suspect that I'm just saying things that you already know, but I feel the need to do so just in case because I find Opera the opposite of ugly and clunky. Ah well, perhaps this is just a case of different people finding enjoyment in different things.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

Ah well, perhaps this is just a case of different people finding enjoyment in different things.

It is a shame that the general populace has gotten into such a way that defaults are used to gauge how a product looks or feels. Sure with physical things we don't want the hassle of modding them, but most programs are easily skinned to look or feel like another. But hey I'm guilty of it myself when I b**ch about the new GUI of Office 2k7

[KiNA]

Well, default skin for FF feels like IE to me, so its really a - point when I've tried it out.

And right now, Opera already futhfill everything that I dont bother to find a replacement, apart from firing up FF to download stuff over megaupload

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

Ugly and clunky? I'm a little surprised so I have to ask, have you tried skinning Opera? There are some really nice looking skins. Also, if you don't like the button layout it is really easy to change.

I suspect that I'm just saying things that you already know, but I feel the need to do so just in case because I find Opera the opposite of ugly and clunky. Ah well, perhaps this is just a case of different people finding enjoyment in different things.

I have tried some different opera skins, but my main issues were with the UI layout, which I wasn't aware was so easily changed (I'm pretty sure differing layouts weren't as available when I dropped it, if at all). Worse than the cluttered, awkward layout were some UI quirks I really don't remember well enough to speak on.

Opera's default UI reminded me of the progression of the old MacOS UI: Innovative, elegant, and supremely usable when introduced, but not re-thought properly to accommodate the expanding features. After a while, it reminded me more of the new Netscape with its clutter.

It's good to know that the UI layout can be changed so easily. However, I won't be going back to Opera while Free (as in libre) browsers remain as stable, advanced, and competitive as they are now.

I am ALWAYS a fan of options, though. As far as I'm concerned, Opera always has a place on the internet. They'll also continue to receive my support for the tremendous work they've done in improving the state of web browsing.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

Opera's UI reminded me of the progression of the old MacOS UI: Innovative, elegant, and supremely usable when introduced, but not re-thought properly to accommodate the expanding features. After a while, it reminded me more of the new Netscape with its clutter. (Worse than the clutter were some UI quirks I really don't remember well enough to speak on.)

Ah, you last tried it before they cleaned up their interface. That explains your complaint. That was several major revisions ago. They removed a ton of stuff from the default UI to keep from appearing clunky. (It was always removable, but eventually they figured out that it scared off newcomers who didn't realize that could be changed and didn't want all those features.) Now the UI is sleeker and more elegant.

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

However, I won't be going back to Opera while Free (as in libre) browsers remain as stable, advanced, and competitive as they are now.

If libre trumps gratis, then by all means go with Firefox. While I applaud the concept of open source producing a great product made by a commitee as a hobby in their spare time, I still prefer Opera.

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

despite all the innovative features I just find it thoroughly unusable. That's really sad, because I want to love it.

I think you were just teasing me with that sentence. You don't really want to love it.

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

Ah, you last tried it before they cleaned up their interface. That explains your complaint. That was several major revisions ago. They removed a ton of stuff from the default UI to keep from appearing clunky. (It was always removable, but eventually they figured out that it scared off newbies who didn't realize it could be removed and didn't want all those features.)

I don't mind having the features (they're what made Opera my favorite browser for so many years!--aside from being so darned fast, I mean.). Featureful does not have to mean inelegant operation, though.

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

If libre trumps gratis, then by all means go with Firefox. While I applaud the concept of open source producing a great product made by a commitee of programmer in their spare time as a hobby, I still prefer a browser which has zero security vulnerabilities and fewer bugs.

Well, most of the core Webkit and Safari core developers aren't hobbyists, and Opera certainly isn't bug and security vulnerability free, but you do have a correct impression of my personal choices: Not just open source, but free does make a large enough difference to me to put up with a few more quirks and a few less features if it gets the job done.


And I do want to love Opera. I started using it in 1997, the year it hit the public. I couldn't always use it, whether due to rendering or JavaScript issues in the early days (they did fight the good fight against IE-only sites, bless them), or unavailability on Linux later. Until the day Firefox became usable, though, Opera was my preference if the sites I browsed worked in it. Even when I wasn't using it, I was admiring the work they did, both on the browser and personally, trying to fight the IE-only hordes and the Microsoft practices that fostered them.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

Well, most of the core Webkit and Safari core developers aren't hobbyists, and Opera certainly isn't bug and security vulnerability free

Ick. You pressed the quote button before I edited out that slightly inflamatory and slightly inaccurate sentence. Anyway, one part of my deleted post was not inaccurate.

According to Secunia Opera is free of all security vulnerabilities, something that no other browser can claim. They have a record of swiftly patching every single vulnerability no mater how minor. They are the only browser with no known security vulnerabilities, so that is worth something. Since Secunia is accepted by the industry, I think you shouldn't argue too much with my claim.

As for bugs, yeah, they are certainly not bug free. I only claimed fewer. At the very least they don't have any bugs that a large part of their own community complained about for something like a year. That is really all I want to say on the subject since it is really much too subjective. Often when talking about bugs you are simply happy if the product doesn't have bugs that hurt the way you want to use it. With browsers a bug that annoys the heck out of one person will never even be noticed by another. That's why I removed that sentence and am very sorry that you started replying before I deleted it. I wish I hadn't posted it in the first place.

[WanderingKnight]

As for bugs, yeah, they are certainly not bug free.

No software but the simplest one can ever hope to be bug free. That's the first theorem of software programming and the main reason why the security through obscurity model of developing is the most ineffective (Windows, I'm looking at you).

[DragoonKain3]

Way back when, I used a relatively unknown browser called Crazy Browser. And for the longest time I used it, as the UI was better than anything I've used in 2k2. Middle mouse clicks on links openning a new tab, tabbed browsing, being able to lock tabs, and built in pop up blocker was certainly a vast improvement from IE and Netscape from back then.

Downside was that CB isn't updated frequently (3 years just for the next beta?), so I suspect it's full of vulnerabilities. At that point, it was either Firefox or Opera. I tried Firefox first as it was much more popular than Opera, and used it for like a year or two. Something always irked me though about it, as you can't lock tabs with Firefox. And as old habits die hard (I usually have a ton of tabs open and if I want to close all but X number of them, I'm screwed with Firefox), I'm sticking with Opera and haven't looked back since.

I do have both Firefox and Opera on my computer though, just because for some reason Vista doesn't like having Opera as my default browser no matter what I did. And while I'm very careful about what I click, I am not perfect. So whenever I misclick a link on say, my IRC client, I'd rather have firefox open up rather than IE. Not to mention that's one less thing I have to worry about if someone else decides to borrow my computer for surfing or whatnot.

[Alleluia_Cone]

I have Opera on my computer, and having played around with it quite a bit, I concluded that it is inherently better than Firefox in almost all categories, yet I still primarily use the latter. The thing is, for whatever reason, Firefox is still noticeably faster for me than every other browser I have tested. And speed being by far the most important factor I consider when using a browser has pretty much insured that I remain a Firefox user. I should probably mention that I have a Mac, so it might be an issue that is exclusive to those machines, although, strangely, the Apple-made Safari web browser is even slower than Opera.

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone

I have Opera on my computer, and having played around with it quite a bit, I concluded that it is inherently better than Firefox in almost all categories, yet I still primarily use the latter. The thing is, for whatever reason, Firefox is still noticeably faster for me than every other browser I have tested. And speed being by far the most important factor I consider when using a browser has pretty much insured that I remain a Firefox user. I should probably mention that I have a Mac, so it might be an issue that is exclusive to those machines, although, strangely, the Apple-made Safari web browser is even slower than Opera.

Meh, I think there has to be some compromise between speed and utility. If I really wanted speed, then I would've used K-Meleon, but I eventually stuck to FireFox also.

[mxg]

I have a problem. My firefox won't connect but IE will. What should I do ?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by mxg

I have a problem. My firefox won't connect but IE will. What should I do ?

won't connect to what? a particular site? any site? whats the error message?

Make sure there's not a typo in your URL that IE happens to be guessing correctly to correct?

They use exactly the same methods and ports to connect.

[Gemstar]

I have the same problem also. It wont connect to any site but Explorer will. You cannot browse with firefox at all, other browers you can. I played around with it and now I cant even open it. I deleted the profile supposedly. What do I do?

[KiNA]

I have a question to Firefox users. I'm looking for for FF plugin equivalent of Opera's notes.

What Opera's notes feature is simply allow you to CNP anything to the notes.. And since its CNP to a file, the stuff you copied to notes stays for use forever.