[Manga] Uchiha Madara

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Kinder

I disagree!!! Even without knowing what even kyuubi was, Naruto was hardworking and verrrrrrry determined. He was devoted and his dream came before he knew kyuubi.

Who said the opposite? Everyone agreed on Naruto being a hardworker.

[FireDetei]

But without the kyuubi naruto wouldn of had to work so hard to get people to like him. He only worked that hard because no one liked him.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Kinder

I disagree!!! Even without knowing what even kyuubi was, Naruto was hardworking and verrrrrrry determined. He was devoted and his dream came before he knew kyuubi.

Yes that is true BUT imagine this:

"Naruto without the Kyuubi"

Naruto is already acknowlegded by others...and has set his goal.

"Marry...have children and become a good shinobi (Jounin)" {similair Shikamaru}

In the end he may become indeed an average shinobi.

But...

"Naruto with the Kyuubi"

Naruto is hated by others and wants to be reckonized by everyone...
He wants to surpass all previous Hokage's...with such a goal one can become stronger then ever..{Naruto}

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

In fact, I wanted to tease Fanboykiller a little who is my brother.

Thats another Lie, you are not FBK brother.

[rd1979]

What about the fact that the Uchiha bloodline limit is related to the Hyugaa bloodline limit?

That too is in the manga.

That alone negates all of YF's bullshit.

[tritoch]

Actually if Naruto did not have Kyuubi he'd be way more powerful. Remember his true strength lies when someone close to him is in danger.

Naruto without Kyuubi = loved by the people or has plenty of friends = i wanna protect my friends = blue chakra goodness

Either way is a win/win for Naruto.

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by rd1979

What about the fact that the Uchiha bloodline limit is related to the Hyugaa bloodline limit?

That too is in the manga.

That alone negates all of YF's bullshit.

Interesting, is it possible that a Hyuga elite was somehow cursed by a demon or something happened to him/her for the Uchiha to be born? What if the ninja's name was Hyuga Uchiha, indicating that the clan took it's name from that ninja's name.

[fict_ticious]

A little OT, but in the legend about the Kyuubi, isn't it searching for the person who "awakened" it?
Perhaps it was Uchiha Mandara who did so, hence the "cursed" bloodline statement (I think) and maybe the reason why Itachi's Bijuu is Kyuubi (a bit of a stretch in terms of reasoning, but w/e).

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by fict_ticious

A little OT, but in the legend about the Kyuubi, isn't it searching for the person who "awakened" it?
Perhaps it was Uchiha Mandara who did so, hence the "cursed" bloodline statement (I think) and maybe the reason why Itachi's Bijuu is Kyuubi (a bit of a stretch in terms of reasoning, but w/e).

In the legend it was the 8-tailed snake demon, Orochi, who woke Kyuubi.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by tritoch

Actually if Naruto did not have Kyuubi he'd be way more powerful. Remember his true strength lies when someone close to him is in danger.

Naruto without Kyuubi = loved by the people or has plenty of friends = i wanna protect my friends = blue chakra goodness

Either way is a win/win for Naruto.

-Nope, it is not a win/win situation for the boy. Although this is never stated in the manga or the anime it is very likely that Naruto as a child was attacked by dissapproving villagers. Now how do you expect a 5 year old defenceless child to survive a kunai to the throat without outside help? This is very likely because human being, when they do not try to understand something or can't control it, begin to fear it. This leads to paranoia and most likely murder. Please face the fact that if Naruto had never gotten the Kyuubi he'd never have gotten as strong as he is now.

-Regarding the Uchiha Madara being the Yondaime Hokage I have my doubts, but you never know with the Naruto series. Still, I'll believe it when I see it with my own 2 eyes.

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by KatonMakai

-Nope, it is not a win/win situation for the boy. Although this is never stated in the manga or the anime it is very likely that Naruto as a child was attacked by dissapproving villagers. Now how do you expect a 5 year old defenceless child to survive a kunai to the throat without outside help? This is very likely because human being, when they do not try to understand something or can't control it, begin to fear it. This leads to paranoia and most likely murder. Please face the fact that if Naruto had never gotten the Kyuubi he'd never have gotten as strong as he is now.

-Regarding the Uchiha Madara being the Yondaime Hokage I have my doubts, but you never know with the Naruto series. Still, I'll believe it when I see it with my own 2 eyes.

I highly doubt that Naruto was ever attacked in that manner, considering the Hokage, Sarutobi himself, was compassionate towards Naruto. Kohona is not like the Sand village where there is constant threats of assassination, in the case of Gaara. In addition it seemed that simple villagers, not ninjas, were the ones who constantly hated Naruto, I highly doubt they posed much of a threat anyways. Lastly, fear of the Kyuubi's power itself would prevent anyone from even trying to attack Naruto.

It is true that without Kyuubi Naruto wouldn't be as strong as he is now, but not necessarily because of the Kyuubi's actual power, but the fact that the villagers shunned him, and that he was a poor ninja who no one believed could ever amount to anything is what gave him the drive to become as strong as he was.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Sinaura

I highly doubt that Naruto was ever attacked in that manner, considering the Hokage, Sarutobi himself, was compassionate towards Naruto. Kohona is not like the Sand village where there is constant threats of assassination, in the case of Gaara. In addition it seemed that simple villagers, not ninjas, were the ones who constantly hated Naruto, I highly doubt they posed much of a threat anyways. Lastly, fear of the Kyuubi's power itself would prevent anyone from even trying to attack Naruto.

It is true that without Kyuubi Naruto wouldn't be as strong as he is now, but not necessarily because of the Kyuubi's actual power, but the fact that the villagers shunned him, and that he was a poor ninja who no one believed could ever amount to anything is what gave him the drive to become as strong as he was.

-Ok point taken. Now let me ask you this: ever heard of the expression "Man is but a fool"? It is true that Sarutobi was compassionate and made it a rule that no harm was to be done to Naruto but that still doesn't mean everyone will abide by the rules. They are meant to be broken and it would only take 1 single idiot to think of himself/herself as a "Saviour" of Konoha and go ahead and attack a 5-year old boy, who just happens to act at the jail for the Kyuubi's power. This would happen regardless of the knowledge he/she may have of the posibilities of Kyuubi's actual presence. Like I said, once paranoia sets in the human being is capable of so many horrendous things that I often wonder "Are we any different from the monsters we envision"?

-If and reality are 2 very different things. If Naruto never had the Kyuubi then he would never been as strong, but at the same time he may never have been hated so by the Konoha citizens. However the fact is that he is stuck with it for the time being and the villager's unacceptance of him (lest the worst case scenario occurs and he dies from the extraction).

[Souten no Seigyoku]

Originally Posted by Zek

Hilarious. Now fix the spoiler in the title.

Hillarious indeed. Everybody knows the Yondaime is Naruto's papi. Naruto isnt an Uchiha.

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by KatonMakai

-Ok point taken. Now let me ask you this: ever heard of the expression "Man is but a fool"? It is true that Sarutobi was compassionate and made it a rule that no harm was to be done to Naruto but that still doesn't mean everyone will abide by the rules. They are meant to be broken and it would only take 1 single idiot to think of himself/herself as a "Saviour" of Konoha and go ahead and attack a 5-year old boy, who just happens to act at the jail for the Kyuubi's power. This would happen regardless of the knowledge he/she may have of the posibilities of Kyuuni's actual presence. Like I said, once paranoia sets in the human being is capable of so many horrendous things that I often wonder "Are we any different from the monsters we envision"?

-If and reality are 2 very different things. If Naruto never had the Kyuubi then he would never been as strong, but at the same time he may never have been hated so by the Konoha citizens. However the fact is that he is stuck with it for the time being and the villager's unacceptance of him (lest the worst case scenario occurs and he dies from the extraction).

True there are ninjas who are clearly rebellious, in the cases of Mizuki, Itachi and Orochimaru, however, consider this, what would you expect if in the past a ninja tried to take out Naruto without Naruto getting outside help? Since Naruto is still alive, we can assume that the ninja A. suddenly became sympathetic for Naruto, or B. lost his/her life to the awesome Kyuubi-Naruto thing. Now if this were the case, it would be plausible that the Hokage and the village would have had MUCH stricter rules regarding Naruto, because of such a threat he posed. That means Naruto would probably not have been admitted to the Ninja academy, or even have had more seals placed on him. However, apparently this isn't the case, because as far as we know the first time Kyuubi's chakra appears is when he thinks Haku has killed Sasuke.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Sinaura

True there are ninjas who are clearly rebellious, in the cases of Mizuki, Itachi and Orochimaru, however, consider this, what would you expect if in the past a ninja tried to take out Naruto without Naruto getting outside help? Since Naruto is still alive, we can assume that the ninja A. suddenly became sympathetic for Naruto, or B. lost his/her life to the awesome Kyuubi-Naruto thing. Now if this were the case, it would be plausible that the Hokage and the village would have had MUCH stricter rules regarding Naruto, because of such a threat he posed. That means Naruto would probably not have been admitted to the Ninja academy, or even have had more seals placed on him. However, apparently this isn't the case, because as far as we know the first time Kyuubi's chakra appears is when he thinks Haku has killed Sasuke.

-Why Naruto hadn't released the Kyuubi chakra during his younger days? Truth be told I don't think anyone can answer that completely. One theory says that his body just wasn't ready to accept such power at such a young age. However the most logical explaination would be that during those days Naruto was assigned "hidden" bodyguards to help him through the day. How exactly Naruto survived until he reached the academy is beyond my ability to speculate so I'll leave you with your own ideas. In any case we know that Sarutobi punished all those who even spoke of the Kyuubi no Yoko was punished severly so for the purpose of keeping the young Naruto alive, it worked.

[Razz]

Originally Posted by KatonMakai

-Why Naruto hadn't released the Kyuubi chakra during his younger days? Truth be told I don't think anyone can answer that completely. One theory says that his body just wasn't ready to accept such power at such a young age. However the most logical explaination would be that during those days Naruto was assigned "hidden" bodyguards to help him through the day. How exactly Naruto survived until he reached the academy is beyond my ability to speculate so I'll leave you with your own ideas. In any case we know that Sarutobi punished all those who even spoke of the Kyuubi no Yoko was punished severly so for the purpose of keeping the young Naruto alive, it worked.

What I find funny is how Yondaime wanted Naruto to be a hero yet, Naruto did not recieve training until he joined the academy. If I was Sandaime, I would've trained Naruto from when he was like 5 and then made him into a strong weapon for the Country.

[rd1979]

Originally Posted by Razz

What I find funny is how Yondaime wanted Naruto to be a hero yet, Naruto did not recieve training until he joined the academy. If I was Sandaime, I would've trained Naruto from when he was like 5 and then made him into a strong weapon for the Country.

Much of this isn't explained, and I must assume, wasn't even considered by Kishimoto.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by KatonMakai

-Ok point taken. Now let me ask you this: ever heard of the expression "Man is but a fool"? It is true that Sarutobi was compassionate and made it a rule that no harm was to be done to Naruto but that still doesn't mean everyone will abide by the rules. They are meant to be broken and it would only take 1 single idiot to think of himself/herself as a "Saviour" of Konoha and go ahead and attack a 5-year old boy, who just happens to act at the jail for the Kyuubi's power. This would happen regardless of the knowledge he/she may have of the posibilities of Kyuubi's actual presence. Like I said, once paranoia sets in the human being is capable of so many horrendous things that I often wonder "Are we any different from the monsters we envision"?

Which didn't happen, period. We know from Naruto himself what he suffered from the villagers and it's about cold glances and silent hatred. Nothing about physical violence.

Originally Posted by KatonMakai

-Why Naruto hadn't released the Kyuubi chakra during his younger days? Truth be told I don't think anyone can answer that completely. One theory says that his body just wasn't ready to accept such power at such a young age.

It was stated by Orochimaru in the forest of Death that after 12 years Naruto started to resonate with the Kyubi. When he was younger it wasn't the case and thus he couldn't use the Kyubi's power.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Which didn't happen, period. We know from Naruto himself what he suffered from the villagers and it's about cold glances and silent hatred. Nothing about physical violence.

It was stated by Orochimaru in the forest of Death that after 12 years Naruto started to resonate with the Kyubi. When he was younger it wasn't the case and thus he couldn't use the Kyubi's power.

-True, that is the information we gain from the manga and anime. However I made my statement while adding my knowledge of human behaviour and emotion. While yes, it is never stated in either the manga or anime that Naruto was attacked, if you add in human behaviour to the mix it becomes very probable that someone had the idea of attacking Naruto. I'm not trying to discredit your statement Hunter. Far from it, it is a valid statement, I was just trying to give a further insight to Naruto's "hated by villagers" plight.

-Thank you for pointing out that Orochimaru said that. It has been so long since I've seen that episode so I must've forgotten. Though looking back I have only seen him say "So after 12 years the Brat of the Kyuubi is still alive. The Kyuubi's chakra has been merging for 12 years then."

[Razz]

The 12 year statement is just an excuse for Kishimoto to give Naruto a lonely and weak look. Every other bijuu in the series probably had a tough childhood and was probably trained/feared.