Archer - discuss Ep. 14 hints

[stormy001_M1A2]

People who knew better feel free to correct me here...

Spoiler:

Archer's identity.

Archer lied to Rin when she asked on who he was in gamestory. The anime version makes Archer have amnesia remembering on who he was.

1. The pendant that Archer has is the key to who he was. The one which Rin used to heal Shirou in the fateful night. In the game, Archer gave the pendant but Shirou kept the pendant as Rin find outs in UBW. That confirms to Rin on who is her Servant is.

2. Shirou used to be in Archery Club and considered by club's president as a very formidable archer. Despite retired, she still wants to challenge Shirou for a final duel on who is a better archer. (game conversation)

3. The Tracing ability is what Rin shocked to discover is similar to Archer's Kanshou and Bakunya blade imaging.

4. Archer knew Rin's pecularity of tea taste. In anime episode 9, Rin asked Shirou to brew her particular tea. In gamestory, Rin was pleasantly surprised by Archer's tea making skill.

5. The theme of Emiya was played during UBW summoning.

In UBW he plan to kill younger version of himself because he got sick and tired of the principle. When he sacrifice himself to be heroic spirit, he was summoned to be clean up crew in disasters, have to kill some to save lives. In the end he become so disillusioned that he decided to end it all by kill his own existence. Hence the Reality Marble of Archer has machine wheels at the background signifies his feelings that he is just an automata for specific purpose. The younger Shirou Reality Marble has no wheels in the background in contrast, symbolizing his belief in justice.

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

People who knew better feel free to correct me here...

Spoiler:

In UBW he plan to kill younger version of himself because he got sick and tired of the principle. When he sacrifice himself to be heroic spirit, he was summoned to be clean up crew in disasters, have to kill some to save lives. In the end he become so disillusioned that he decided to end it all by kill his own existence. Hence the Reality Marble of Archer has machine wheels at the background signifies his feelings that he is just an automata for specific purpose. The younger Shirou Reality Marble has no wheels in the background in contrast, symbolizing his belief in justice.

Spoiler:

When Archer became a Heroic Spirit, because he was not well known, he was summoned as a Counter Force, and tasked with wiping out all humans in the surrounding area to stabilize matters. Archer wanted to save people, not kill people, and yet, if he were to do nothing, then more people will die as the result. That's when he finally realised the meaning behind his father's words. But even if he were to give up and die, because all Heroic Servants are summoned as copies of the original, he would just be re-summoned again. There was no way out.

When a Heroic Spirit is summoned, only a copy is sent out, and when their mission is over, the copy is destroyed, thus preventing the original Heroic Spirit from gaining any additional memories/experience. Archer's UBW made him unique because in addition to Tracing an object, he also Traces the memories/skill of those whom once owned the object. What made it horrific was that due to this, it allows Archer to retain his memories, and he remembered every time he was summoned, every person he had killed, every moment of his existence.

Archer became nothing more than a machine, constantly being summoned time after time again for the same purpose over and over again, for something, that he no longer believes in.

Archer abandoned everything for the sake of what he believed in, and in the end, it left him with nothing.

In UBW scenerio, Archer knew that killing Shirou would not change anything, because he did not originate from the future of this particular timeline. But he wanted to kill Shirou anyways, because he was so sickened of his past self, and the reality of what his hopes and dreams will eventually lead him (its sort of a way to keep UBW Shirou from experiencing the same things that he did).

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Spoiler:

When a Heroic Spirit is summoned, only a copy is sent out, and when their mission is over, the copy is destroyed, thus preventing the original Heroic Spirit from gaining any additional memories/experience.

Correct me if i am wrong

Spoiler for game spoilers:

]but didn't sabre remeber her war as the servant for Shiro adopted father and how he order her to destory the grail

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Correct me if i am wrong

Spoiler for game spoilers:

]but didn't sabre remeber her war as the servant for Shiro adopted father and how he order her to destory the grail

Spoiler:

Saber is 'different' than a normal Heroic Spirit.

[Mr. Guy]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Spoiler:

When Archer became a Heroic Spirit, because he was not well known, he was summoned as a Counter Force, and tasked with wiping out all humans in the surrounding area to stabilize matters. Archer wanted to save people, not kill people, and yet, if he were to do nothing, then more people will die as the result. That's when he finally realised the meaning behind his father's words. But even if he were to give up and die, because all Heroic Servants are summoned as copies of the original, he would just be re-summoned again. There was no way out.

When a Heroic Spirit is summoned, only a copy is sent out, and when their mission is over, the copy is destroyed, thus preventing the original Heroic Spirit from gaining any additional memories/experience. Archer's UBW made him unique because in addition to Tracing an object, he also Traces the memories/skill of those whom once owned the object. What made it horrific was that due to this, it allows Archer to retain his memories, and he remembered every time he was summoned, every person he had killed, every moment of his existence.

Archer became nothing more than a machine, constantly being summoned time after time again for the same purpose over and over again, for something, that he no longer believes in.

Archer abandoned everything for the sake of what he believed in, and in the end, it left him with nothing.

In UBW scenerio, Archer knew that killing Shirou would not change anything, because he did not originate from the future of this particular timeline. But he wanted to kill Shirou anyways, because he was so sickened of his past self, and the reality of what his hopes and dreams will eventually lead him (its sort of a way to keep UBW Shirou from experiencing the same things that he did).

To briefly add to this (and stormy's)...

Spoiler:

I believe it's also hinted that Shirou's ideals came at a price. Namely, some of his friends ended up dying for them. I think Rin is the one being hinted at there? Either way, it was another reason to hate himself for having such ideals that lead to the deaths of people he cared about.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guy

To briefly add to this (and stormy's)...

Spoiler:

I believe it's also hinted that Shirou's ideals came at a price. Namely, some of his friends ended up dying for them. I think Rin is the one being hinted at there? Either way, it was another reason to hate himself for having such ideals that lead to the deaths of people he cared about.

Spoiler:

It was never clearly hinted who, but several friends of his ended up dying for it, most likely Rin and some of his military comrades as well.

The sad irony of Shirou's lifetime was that he became a realistic hero, by killing people to save other people, directly the opposite of his ideals. Even after wishing to be a Heroic Spirit to be the idealist hero he dreamed of, he still in the end, couldn't be one and argubly a worse kind of hero in his afterlife.

[Village Idiot]

Spoiler for UBW end spoilers:

At least Archer can rest assure that in the ending of UBW, that this particular Shirou combined with his jump started Magus/UBW development far earlier than Archer originally did, his eventual training in London with Rin in the Mage Academy, and most importantly, realization and acceptance of the reality of the path he has chosen, his life will turn out completely different than Archer's.

Not to mention, obtaining his pimpin Mage Jacket, control over his Reality Marble (something Mages dream of), surviving a Grail War, and defeating the King of Freakin-Heroes in single combat. Shirou's going to have his hands full with all them Mage Academy Girls all over him. Poor Rin better keep him on a tight leash

[stormy001_M1A2]

In a sense Shirou achieve the level of badass like Shiki Tohno in this stage.

[tragicsmile]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Spoiler for UBW end spoilers:

Not to mention, obtaining his pimpin Mage Jacket, control over his Reality Marble (something Mages dream of), surviving a Grail War, and defeating the King of Freakin-Heroes in single combat. Shirou's going to have his hands full with all them Mage Academy Girls all over him. Poor Rin better keep him on a tight leash

Pictures?

Spoiler:

Or is this the usual stuff that Archer wears?

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

In a sense Shirou achieve the level of badass like Shiki Tohno in this stage.

I hope you mean game or manga version Shiki.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by Angelsama

I hope you mean game or manga version Shiki.

i nver recognize only game and manga version....

[eMpTy265]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Correct me if i am wrong

Spoiler for game spoilers:

]but didn't sabre remeber her war as the servant for Shiro adopted father and how he order her to destory the grail

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Spoiler:

Saber is 'different' than a normal Heroic Spirit.

Spoiler for Sabre remembering her past::

It's the same reason she can't switch to 'spirit form' right?

Spoiler for Are you sure? It might spoil the anime... :

Hint:

If I'm not mistaken, in return for getting the holy grail and asking the world for a 'favor', the hero becomes a heroic spirit to serve the world for eternity.

Here's a question about Archer's summoning:

Assuming Rin was at her best condition (and not an hour off), would Rin have been able to summon Saber?

I'm inclined to think that she'd still get Archer, even if Shirou wasn't to become a master....

What do the vets think?

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by eMpTy265

Here's a question about Archer's summoning:

Assuming Rin was at her best condition (and not an hour off), would Rin have been able to summon Saber?

I'm inclined to think that she'd still get Archer, even if Shirou wasn't to become a master....

What do the vets think?

Spoiler:

Possible, but highly doubtful unless her magic power is so strong that it erases the connection of her father's magical gem with Archer alongside Shirou's connection with Saber.

VERY VERY unlikely. Plus, I believe even if Rin was able to override the connection between Archer and her father's gem, she'd would've gotten a different Saber instead.

[IMSabbel]

what i REALLY wonder:

If, for summoning reasons, a connection between the original soul of the servant helps to select who gets whom (like using berserkers club), why

Spoiler:

did shirou get anybody else than archer? what bigger connection than actually being your servant could there be?

[SilverHeimdall]

[SPOILERS][SPOILERS][SPOILERS][SPOILERS]

Here's everything from the Unlimited Blade Works scenario of the Game, Fate/Stay Night, on the topic of Archer.

Spoiler:

He was actually Emiya Shirou from the future. The artifact that summoned him was the pendant that Rin used to save his life. He really did become a hero that he wanted to! It was possible for him to be summoned from the future because the heroic spirits are beings separated from the timeline of our normal world. One thing that's different about his case is that he chose to become an heroic spirit himself, so he can help more people. Most of the other heroes are forced to become an heroic spirit because of their fame and power, but in Emiya's case it was out of his choice. He's been acting weird since the beginning of this story, trying to get at Shirou whenever he had a chance. The reason he wanted to kill him was because becoming a hero was very different from his ideal, and wanted to kill his existence beforehand. An hero can only save someone who he swore to protect and many sacrifices were made when he tried to do something. In other words, he was giving up. Through the fight with himself, he is shocked by the determination he had back then. He decides to keep on fighting once again. At the end, he tells Rin with a smile "I've got the answer. It's going to be all right Tohsaka. I'll do my best from now on too" He will keep on being summoned to fight for someone forever, but he's happy to do so because that's the choice he made.

And here's a familiar face with a familiar outfit!

Spoiler:

[Village Idiot]

You really should credit the original author if you're ripping an entire paragraph off Moonlit World.

[sniperz]

lol anyhow. it was very touchy of archer knowing again the determination and his "protector of justice" shows a lot.in real life, there might be a lot of protector of justice but if it ended like fate did.the world might be peace

[realistknight]

So if in this timeline Shirou also decides to become a Heroic Soul does that mean there will be two Shirous a Master can summon ?

[Archer]

No. There is only one Heroic Spirit EMIYA. While there may be many Emiya Shirous that can become the EMIYA, the records and accounts of the Emiya Shirous will be added to EMIYA's database.

It's similar to how there are many different stories and backgrounds all based upon one legend.

[riznar]

Archer,

Spoiler for just in case:

So Heroic Spirit EMIYA as you put it has all of the abilities of every Shirou from every timeline?