フタコイ (Futakoi)

[dkellis]

Originally Posted by AndrewLB

We can all get along in this wonderful world, right? Just, you know, please realize that many people with this cool thing called "moral values" and "normal sexual habits" or at least "what would be normal sexual habits if they asked women out" are fairly offended by the fact that people like shows that portray young children in a sexual manner. Not only is it creepy, but it goes against the basic human instinct of protecting children. It's like you're literally NOT HUMAN if you're into that kinda stuff. BUt that's just my opinion, ya know.

One person's "truth" may not be another person's "truth". I don't think there's such a thing as an absolute truth, but then that's not absolute either.

I don't really see how liking shows with young children in it is considered pedophilic. I don't really have a reaction to any of the fanservice people seem to be bothered by, since I do like anime with kids (CCS, Angelic Layer, Nanoha et al), but I have no interest in them sexually. (I prefer older women.)

I did get quite disturbed by Gunslinger Girls (as an example), but I tried to base my opinions on that show on its merits, not my personal beliefs. I hope that people will be able to do the same for Futakoi and Nanoha, but I suppose that's asking a bit much.

[LytHka]

Originally Posted by AndrewLB

BUt that's just my opinion, ya know.

Yep.

MOE it is. Of course, what's wrong with that? It just adds extra cuteness value to the show. Too bad this show is only MOE and nothing else. I will continue watching this, I want to see the story development, characters can't develop much more I presume. I also like the main male character, it's not your typical pervert that DOESN'T talk about pervertedness. He reminds me more of those Da Capo's Kotori fans. "This is your typical love-love/childhood promise type of story." I guess it is. Yet I really like the idea of having multiple twins in the show. Neat. (btw, any other show that uses multiple twins characters?)

[AndrewLB]

Originally Posted by dkellis

One person's "truth" may not be another person's "truth". I don't think there's such a thing as an absolute truth, but then that's not absolute either.

I don't really see how liking shows with young children in it is considered pedophilic. I don't really have a reaction to any of the fanservice people seem to be bothered by, since I do like anime with kids (CCS, Angelic Layer, Nanoha et al), but I have no interest in them sexually. (I prefer older women.)

I did get quite disturbed by Gunslinger Girls (as an example), but I tried to base my opinions on that show on its merits, not my personal beliefs. I hope that people will be able to do the same for Futakoi and Nanoha, but I suppose that's asking a bit much.

Nah, I've liked shows with kids in them too. CCS was damn good shit, I actually own the DVDS (they're sitting right next to my box set of Dragnet and the Conan the Barbarian/Destroyer DVDs), Angelic Layer was okay, Tenshi ni Narumon was actually enjoyable (though I attribute that to my obsession with the Munsters as a child), etc.

Children in anime isn't the problem. Children being used as sexual objects IS though. Anyway, I really, really want to go on a crusade. Honest to god, I do. But I need to spend like, 7-something hours in the library tomorrow doing research on Tamil. And, like, Japanese syntactic processing or its relationship to Altaic. I haven't decided yet. Regardless, it's 3am. Sleep time. Enron, continue with the crusade.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by LoveOfAnime

I'm with you, I liked it..........Very cute and the art is cool. I'll definitely keep watching it.

I quess that (according to some people here) would make me a lesbian in a jail cell. OH WELL! :fingers:

Hmm... so I guess I'm the only one who's watching this show purely enjoying that goat (yup it's a goat, my mistake in saying it's a sheep ) beating the crap out of that male lead?

Currently I take this show more like a mockery at males, I really laughed when

Spoiler for episode 2:

the male lead tried to get around with two pairs of twins while hiding one pair from the other by telling unnecessary lies which complicate the whole thing more and more And he even asked himself "so this is the nature of males?"

I think the male lead is practically the personification of all that is dirty, stupid and evil in males, I really enjoy seeing that goat beating the hell outta him

Originally Posted by AndrewLB

It starts in Japan, spreads to Australia, and is already on its way here.

Pedophilia does not start in Japan, pedophiles are everywhere in the world way before there's Japanese animation. See some middle aged westerner tricking little boys in the street of some poor country with money and candy in order to do unspeakable evils to them? they are not Japanese. Even the article you linked says some investigations dates back 40 years, 40 years ago the Japanese animations have zero influence in Australia. US has plenty of child sex abuse already and that has nothing to do with anime. Blaming pedophilia to animes and/or the Japanese is just stupid.

[dkellis]

Originally Posted by AndrewLB

Children in anime isn't the problem. Children being used as sexual objects IS though. Anyway, I really, really want to go on a crusade. Honest to god, I do. But I need to spend like, 7-something hours in the library tomorrow doing research on Tamil. And, like, Japanese syntactic processing or its relationship to Altaic. I haven't decided yet. Regardless, it's 3am. Sleep time. Enron, continue with the crusade.

That could be why you said "Anyone who likes Futakoi and Nanoha is automatically a pedophile, regardless of the reason why they are watching". Well, not exactly what you said, but that's definitely the feeling I got from your first post.

Again, it's not really my place to say whether this or that is wrong. Maybe I don't agree with it (I spent most of Futakoi confused by which twin was which, but I didn't think that the transformation sequence in Nanoha was necessary), but that has nothing to do with the overall quality of the show, however much of it there may be. Otherwise, I would have given up on CCS after the bit with Rika and Terada. (As it is, it's one of my favourite series.)

So I suppose what I'm saying is that if it's really disturbing to you, then feel free not to watch it. However, I'm going to be continuing the series in order to try to gauge it objectively, and I would appreciate not being insulted and condemned to jail/hell, even if you were generalizing.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by AndrewLB

Just, you know, please realize that many people with this cool thing called "moral values" and "normal sexual habits" or at least "what would be normal sexual habits if they asked women out" are fairly offended by the fact that people like shows that portray young children in a sexual manner. Not only is it creepy, but it goes against the basic human instinct of protecting children. It's like you're literally NOT HUMAN if you're into that kinda stuff. BUt that's just my opinion, ya know.

Maybe I'm NOT HUMAN, but I found nothing sexual about Futakoi at all, and I do not believe any was intended. (Certainly, I do not believe it was the author's goal to encourage pedophilia.) I do not see women as simple sexual objects, and especially not children, and am frankly insulted at the insinuation. I do not consider everything romantic to be inherently sexual. I feel like, somehow, we must be watching a different show or something... just because they're twins, how is that automatically a sexual portrayal? (Incidentally, if we were talking about Onegai Twins, or something, then maybe I'd understand the contempt - clearly a sexual portrayal there. But Futakoi?)

Incidentally, I do believe pedophilia is wrong. It hurts children. I believe those that are guilty of such a crime such be punished to the full extent of the law, and shown no undue mercy. I want to hope and believe that everyone on this message board can say the same in agreement with me. And I can honestly say that I do not believe myself to be a hypocrite saying all that after watching this show.

P.S. In regards to my earlier post, it is obvious that sarcasm doesn't transmit very well over the Internet. That post was certainly not meant to be in any way an attempt at true psychological analysis, and since I have absolutely no training in that area, I would expect any such attempt to be horrible at best. Frankly, I was not taking Enron's post seriously, as it appeared to be an obvious attempt at a troll.

[DaFool]

I haven't seen the remaining eps in raw form, but the feeling I get is there won't be any overt fanservice in this show. At most bathingsuits.

The same way Sister Princess / Happy Lesson was. I guess the producers felt that the whole concept of incestuous / student-teacher relationships was already controversial enough in themselves that they decided to cut back on ecchiness and fanservice and reserve those for more regular harem shows with older, non-blood-related girls.

I will keep watching this, but not because it's ecchi, but because it's cute. However it is not SO good that I will need to watch the raw first.

And statements on internet are more heated than they are originally intended to be, so keep it cool. You'd be surprised how unperverted the same people are when encountered in a normal situation.

But seriously, I find the idea of old 70-something westerner retiring in developing country and marrying 20-something girl and pumping out loads of kids (it happens where I live) more repulsive. Now that is reality.

Futakoi is just a fantasy, after all.

[shadowplay]

Yo AndrewLB, what are you some closet pedo or what, I mean if that's all what crosses your mind while watching Futokai then youre the one that has problems and some serious issues and not the authors and people that enjoy the show for what it is; stupid little moe anime.
I could understand if someone complains over Koi Kaze about p* thing, but Futakoi???

[evil|plushie]

This is so strange... -_- I don't think watching Futakoi labels you as a lolicon. We all know it's going to be a harem anime, but it's quite tame for one -_- Or at the very least, the first season didnt have any lame pantsu jokes or the male char catching someone in the bathtub *coughLHcough* or female char whacking male char into the sky.

Nanoha probably is, never watched the show myself, but I have seen some pretty risque screenshots of it. CCS probably is as well. It seems to attract a hell lot of lolicons too... -_- However, people are free to watch whatever they want, or they can get off on anything they want, as long as they can clearly differentiate between reality and entertainment -_- and don't attempt to emulate certain shows.

But otoh, it's amazing how when people want to win an argument in the easiest and fastest way possible, they will always claim the moral high road -_-

[dreamless]

I don't think there's anything sexual in this show. that kid fantasizes a lot, but he doesn't fantasize about sex so far. Also despite how I dislike that kid, he's not a pedophile for sure. There's nothing pedophile about a 15-year-old kid fantasizing over other 15-year-old girls.

you can dislike the show all you want, you can say it's a bad show all you want, you can give it 0/10 or -1000000/10 or whatever in the anime review thread all you want, but if you say that anyone who watches or enjoys this show should be jailed or go to hell, that means you are directly attacking and insulting other forum members, which is trolling. Maybe you can say you think those who watches Futakoi just to fantasize over the girls sexually are wrong, but here we have plenty of people watching Futakoi with no such intentions.

[Iron Monkey]

Wow, yet another thread that's degenerated into a select few lecturing other people about "moral values" and "normal life" and blah blah blah. All I'm gonna say is, if you are seriously offended by a show like this, then dude, you are one sheltered individual.

[Diaphanus]

Ego iam multas bellas geminas amo!

Nunc primum episodium extraho.

Anyway, I'm pretty curious about Futakoi. I'm eager to see it!

[Perdita]

As one of the translators on Futakoi, you'll have to throw me and just about every Ishin staff member in jail if we're pedophiles as described in previous posts.

I don't see Futakoi as something sexual. I see it as a story of transitions, growing up, and relationships, without an emphasis on violence and rock music. That, in my book, is better than a lot of the crap that is being shown this season (such as *censored* Destiny, B*****, B***, G********).

Personally, in my opinion, if guys were more like Nozomu, we wouldn't have some of the problems with guys that we have today. He may not be a sex object, but he's nice, kind, and friendly.

[evil|plushie]

Meh, he's also a wuss and prone to very strange thoughts and with no real ability to rein in his own errant behaviour.

As for what futakoi is about...I'll have to watch more episodes to be certain, but right now, it's firmly labelled under 'harem anime' -_- just more tame.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Perdita

I don't see Futakoi as something sexual. I see it as a story of transitions, growing up, and relationships, without an emphasis on violence and rock music. That, in my book, is better than a lot of the crap that is being shown this season

You have my vote! Thanks again for working on this series - it's cute and enjoyable, and your team is doing a great job. I'm looking forward to future episodes.

[Tiamat's Disciple]

What 15 year old guy doesnt fantasize about 15 year old girls?? It's part of puberty.

I've rewatched this show a few times now to try and get to grips with some of the comments made. So he fantasises about his 2 old neighbours, who he made a pinky promise with to marry both (he must be mad for that alone :P). His fantasy has yet to include anything sexual, jell all they do in his fantasy is hold his hand and giggle a bit, ive seen adverts with more in them.

I guess if watching this makes me pedo, then all those who watch Beet, Bleech, Prince of Tennis, and a lets not forget the best one of all Pokemon are all pedo's aswell. Since the main central chars in all of those are young kids around the 15 years age.

Anime producers use kids cause 9 out of 10 times thats the audiance they're aiming for. Can you see a 12 year old sitting down to watch pokemon if all the characters are over 40?

There are differences, look at KGNE, this was aimed at the more mature end of the market, and the characters started at 17 and by the end of the show were in their 20's.

You've said you dont like thew show, fine, dont like it, your choice. But please stop trolling the thread. We like the show, we dont apreciate being called pedo's cause we do like it (which by the way can have some serious criminal and civil reprecussions), take your crap else where and let us enjpy the show in peace.

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by Perdita

As one of the translators on Futakoi, you'll have to throw me and just about every Ishin staff member in jail if we're pedophiles as described in previous posts.

I don't see Futakoi as something sexual. I see it as a story of transitions, growing up, and relationships, without an emphasis on violence and rock music. That, in my book, is better than a lot of the crap that is being shown this season (such as *censored* Destiny, B*****, B***, G********).

Personally, in my opinion, if guys were more like Nozomu, we wouldn't have some of the problems with guys that we have today. He may not be a sex object, but he's nice, kind, and friendly.

I'd like to thank you and your group for translating Futakoi

[updatedude]

Downloaded the first ep on account of nothing else was available at the time. I didn't know this was the twins one. I found it surprisingly nice. It was cute. Didn't find it all that sexual really. Whether it was intended to be or not, just didn't do nothing for me nonetheless.

Spoiler:

Funny thing about this whole sexual/lolicon discussion. Reminds me of that scene from Genshiken where the non-otaku Saki was told that the poster in the club room was of a character from an ero-game. Her reaction being:

"What!? But she's just a kid! What? You strip her? How can you guys be into this kinda thing?"

And the otaku try to explain she's actually a highschooler, it's an innocent preference etc.

[AndrewLB]

Originally Posted by Perdita

As one of the translators on Futakoi, you'll have to throw me and just about every Ishin staff member in jail if we're pedophiles as described in previous posts.

You and Triad.

[Enron]

Originally Posted by Perdita

As one of the translators on Futakoi, you'll have to throw me and just about every Ishin staff member in jail if we're pedophiles as described in previous posts.

Didn't Ishin do Sister Princess?