(L) Cyberpunk: Edgerunners [Netflix]

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Great show. The ending is pretty much expected for any mafia & crime story. Mostly never really end well in-story but they are well-written.

So, the character exploration & development is basically...

Spoiler for Major Plot Point & Ending of the show:

retooled & remixed of Simon (David), Kamina (Maine), Yoko (Becca) & Nia (Lucy) from Gurren Lagann. And they pretty much switched the ending where instead of Simon & Yoko surviving while Nia dead, we now have Simon (David) & Yoko (Becca) dead while Nia (Lucy) lives. And the fact that the big bad managed to kill our "hero" and won reminded me of the ending of a certain Gundam anime. Sad but inevitable & well written.

I didn't think of it like this! I really like this interpretation.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I didn't think of it like this! I really like this interpretation.

Thanks. Of course, given how prominent Keanu Reeves' involvement in the game was, Edgerunners didn't forget to mix some The Matrix dynamic there with David (Neo), Maine (Morpheus), Lucy (Trinity), Kiwi (Cypher), Dorio (Niobe), Falco (Dozer) & Becca (Mouse/Kid).

[MeoTwister5]

Ugh.

Fantastic use of "I Really Want to Stay at Your House" for the final episode. Once again showing us that no one gets a happy ending in Night City.

[Dextro]

Does anyone know where one can grab the soundtrack for this? I legit can't get some of those songs out of my head.

[ryllharu]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Does anyone know where one can grab the soundtrack for this? I legit can't get some of those songs out of my head.

Many of the songs are directly from the game soundtrack. Check on youtube for the names of the tracks you have taken a liking to the most. Cyberpunk 2077's channel has added the newer songs that are new with the Edgerunners.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by ryllharu

Many of the songs are directly from the game soundtrack. Check on youtube for the names of the tracks you have taken a liking to the most. Cyberpunk 2077's channel has added the newer songs that are new with the Edgerunners.

I think I figured out why I wasn't finding them. I was looking at the OST that's on GOG as DLC for the game but most of the vocal tracks are in albuns called Cyberpunk 2077: Radio on the streaming services.

[Ghostfriendly]

Spoiler for Plot spoilers:

It's telling that Lucy's goal wasn't to cover up the Arasaka netrunner program that produced her, potentially prevented Millitech from replicating said program. It would've been an interesting moral dilemma between the job her crew's lives depended on, and sparing many more children from her past fate. In the event, hers was the self-centred choice of sacrificing her doomed teammates in a failed bid to save her doomed boyfriend. Millitech, most likely, already has the same projects as Arasaka to torture children for fun and profit. While Shadowrun has progressive community activism, a strong movement against meta-racism, even hope of fighting off the Horrors when they turn up, Egderunners shows the true cynicism of cyberpunk. The utterly careless selfishness of the megacorps is ironically echoed by the hopeless fixation of the cyberpunks on self and the loved ones that extend it. The wider social responsibility demanded by a hopelessly corrupted world isn't even on the table.

Nor was a plan to get Tanaka early on through David's connection to him; it seemed an obvious play to at least discuss. Oh well, everything worked out well as could be expected in the end.

[Belkov]

Originally Posted by Endscape

When they say loli here I don't think they were talking about height, but style.

I'm new to Manga/Anime and I had only heard of lolicon when it was used as a derogatory term in a Manga I was reading.

I'm still not 100% sure of this meaning but in the context of this Anime, if it was meant that the Rebecca character was sexualised in any way, anybody who thinks that must be sick in the head.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Belkov

I'm new to Manga/Anime and I had only heard of lolicon when it was used as a derogatory term in a Manga I was reading.

I'm still not 100% sure of this meaning but in the context of this Anime, if it was meant that the Rebecca character was sexualised in any way, anybody who thinks that must be sick in the head.

The -con sufix implies an interest in the thing that comes before (loli). Loli just means a small female child-like character. By that definition, Rebecca is 100% a loli.

[Belkov]

Originally Posted by Dextro

The -con sufix implies an interest in the thing that comes before (loli). Loli just means a small female child-like character. By that definition, Rebecca is 100% a loli.

So Loli is a visual aesthetic and Lili-con in this context, is an unhealthy interest with that aesthetic?

The funny thing is Rebecca reminds me of the character Clare Devlin from the TV comedy series The Derry Girls. Although their overall build and looks are similar, their personalities are totally opposite.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Belkov

So Loli is a visual aesthetic and Lili-con in this context, is an unhealthy interest with that aesthetic?

Very much so. While the meaning might vary from person to person, the `lolicon` label is much more likely to imply some sort of obsession than anything else.

[sa547]

The showrunner having to say about the ending, as it follows in the tradition of film noir:

https://twitter.com/GwentBro/status/...1333179768834?

TL;DR…

ending discussion

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[Belkov]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Very much so. While the meaning might vary from person to person, the `lolicon` label is much more likely to imply some sort of obsession than anything else.

There is a lot of baggage with the term associated with Lolita. I had started watching Edgerunners when I had read about this and it did me a bit apprehensive about continuing to watch it. Thankfully my fears were unfounded and I found the show very entertaining.

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

Spoiler for Plot spoilers:

It's telling that Lucy's goal wasn't to cover up the Arasaka netrunner program that produced her, potentially prevented Millitech from replicating said program. It would've been an interesting moral dilemma between the job her crew's lives depended on, and sparing many more children from her past fate. In the event, hers was the self-centred choice of sacrificing her doomed teammates in a failed bid to save her doomed boyfriend. Millitech, most likely, already has the same projects as Arasaka to torture children for fun and profit. While Shadowrun has progressive community activism, a strong movement against meta-racism, even hope of fighting off the Horrors when they turn up, Egderunners shows the true cynicism of cyberpunk. The utterly careless selfishness of the megacorps is ironically echoed by the hopeless fixation of the cyberpunks on self and the loved ones that extend it. The wider social responsibility demanded by a hopelessly corrupted world isn't even on the table.

In the game, somewhere in the middle of the Biotechnica protein farms, you can find a truck surrounded by dead bodies - including a masked enforcer, several women and a female merc (named "Charlize Fury") who unsuccessfully tried to break out pregnant women from a Biotechnica facility. A data shard reveals that these individuals had been artificially inseminated...for reasons unknown though their attempted liberation by a fixer implies it was done against their will and they were kept prisoners.

Now, a keen eye will have recognized this as a Mad Max: Fury Road easter egg, but the fact is that the devs concurred that this brief vignette/story did fit within the CP2077 world.

Ironically, at several points throughout the game, several characters, including V (in the Corpo lifepath) and Saul (during the sandstorm, after his rescue), talk as if Biotechnica was one of the lesser evils of Night City...but some of the gigs clearly show that its employees are living pieces of horse manure with little regard for human life and a propensity for hierarchical backstabbing.

And then there is Goro Takemura's reminiscences of his own past, according to which Arasaka would regularly send recruiters into the Japanese slums to find the fittest and better-looking (i.e. least scruffy-looking) children to induce into the company's [private army] ranks. The dialogue clearly indicates that the parents were okay with that as they would try to make their kids as presentable as possible to increase their chances of being chosen, but it's still underage recruiting with financial remuneration given to the said parents.

Originally Posted by sa547

TL;DR…

ending discussion

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In the game, you are made to understand rather early that happy endings are not to be had in Night City...but! If you're doomed from the get-go, at least make sure to go out with a bang; don't die a nobody, one of many hundreds of thousands of nameless poor souls who will never be remembered and, at the end of the day, will only constitute another shovelful of dust to be whisked into the City's sewer drains.

And thus we have the Night Citizens' fascination with becoming a [dead] legend.

And, as of Update 1.6, David Martinez is a known and celebrated member of NC's pantheon of merc legends.

[Kanon]

Watched it to find out what all the fuss was about.

Definitely a great show. The aesthetics, the soundtrack, and the characters were all fantastic. The story was simple but effective.

One thing you might help me understand: the sandevistan put strain on David's brain like most implants do, but they never mentioned anything about the rest of his body. When he was still human, you'd think going at superspeed would mess him up.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Watched it to find out what all the fuss was about.

Definitely a great show. The aesthetics, the soundtrack, and the characters were all fantastic. The story was simple but effective.

One thing you might help me understand: the sandevistan put strain on David's brain like most implants do, but they never mentioned anything about the rest of his body. When he was still human, you'd think going at superspeed would mess him up.

His first ripperdoc does mention that. We see his training montage and him getting some more cyberwear afterward. And then there was the timeskip.

[Renegade334]

It's unknown how much cybernetic enhancement constitutes the norm for still-growing youngsters in CP2077. Most people like David have shard slots somewhere behind their ears, a datalink wire reels in their wrist and neural implants in their head that allow them to make wireless communication and use augmented reality feeds, but beyond that? We don't know how much "extra" they're packing from the get-go. We do know that the Martinezes weren't rolling in dough and therefore would have eschewed such unnecessary and costly additions, but it's also unknown whether Gloria, through her job, managed to secure some...secondhand implants for her son. Given how much she wanted to see David succeed, she might've seriously considered the inconvenient truth that implants open a lot more work opportunities and employment stability for their users, at least compared to full "ganics".

Of course, common logic would say that the less intrusion into your organic body is better (and not just because of the heavy toll, but also the risk of implant overload, which triggers cyberpsychosis), but we already see from Lucy's flashbacks and the reveal of her deep dive port on the back of her head, that one can make some serious body enhancement even on little kids with little long-term consequence (at least on the surface). Some of the more affluent and serious Netrunners are even known to get themselves gold-plated braincases for extra security and reduce the risks of successful reverse-hacking...and it's not beyond the province of implausibility that Lucy also received that at an outrageously young age to help her Netrun past the Black Wall. Also, when wandering the in-game streets, you can see a lot of citizens wearing artificial limbs, digital visors instead of eyes...which shows that being fitted with a number of cybernetics feels rather...normal. Commonplace.


On the subject of the Sandevistan itself, one can only assume that this operating system (unlike the Kerenzikov, Sandevistan is not just a nervous system implant, it's a whole OS), on top of significantly boosting nerve transmission and cognitive processing speeds, can also affect cardiovascular activity and alter one's blood chemistry to incorporate the right chemicals needed to dampen the pain, improve regeneration of eroded ligaments and cartilage, etc. Just for reference: the best Sandevistan found in the game--the QianT Warp Dancer--can dilate time by 90% for up to 8 seconds (or 75% for 12s).

It is quite obvious that the shorter the activation time of the Sandevistan, the better. Some of the lesser-grade Militech Sandevistans can last up to 16s, but only using the lowest time dilation setting (20% or thereabouts). For as long as David didn't use it often and for too long, I suppose the backlash was bearable...but, little by little, that thing gnawed at his mind and body, hence the quest for more implants, potentially including but not limited to: titanium bones, microvibration generator, microrotors, synaptic accelerators and signal optimizers, bionic joints, fortified ankles and tendons, reflex tuners, nanorelays...

We already know that by the end of the story, David practically had the body of a Pacifica Animal - essentially a fully 'roided-out bodybuilder. Heck, he even had a Projectile Launch System in his arm, which meant he sacrificed his entire [flesh-and-bone] forearm to make room for this weapon.

Now, keep in mind, the upgrades I cited were only neural and skeletal systems. I haven't started speculating on additions to the other organs, cortex and eye, skin and limbs. You can go very far in CP2077 - essentially become more machine than man.

While Adam Smasher is usually cited as one of the more extreme examples of organic-to-chrome conversions, he actually did something more radical: he demanded his employer, Arasaka, to transfer his brain into a combat power armor (with the AI suite taken out) rather than have the ripperdocs try to salvage what was left of his body (which was shredded to pieces several times between 2010 and 2076, including the nuclear bombing of Night City by Johnny Silverhand) and replace/supplement them with synthetic surrogates.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

In the game, somewhere in the middle of the Biotechnica protein farms, you can find a truck surrounded by dead bodies - including a masked enforcer, several women and a female merc (named "Charlize Fury") who unsuccessfully tried to break out pregnant women from a Biotechnica facility. A data shard reveals that these individuals had been artificially inseminated...for reasons unknown though their attempted liberation by a fixer implies it was done against their will and they were kept prisoners.

Now, a keen eye will have recognized this as a Mad Max: Fury Road easter egg, but the fact is that the devs concurred that this brief vignette/story did fit within the CP2077 world.

Ironically, at several points throughout the game, several characters, including V (in the Corpo lifepath) and Saul (during the sandstorm, after his rescue), talk as if Biotechnica was one of the lesser evils of Night City...but some of the gigs clearly show that its employees are living pieces of horse manure with little regard for human life and a propensity for hierarchical backstabbing.

And then there is Goro Takemura's reminiscences of his own past, according to which Arasaka would regularly send recruiters into the Japanese slums to find the fittest and better-looking (i.e. least scruffy-looking) children to induce into the company's [private army] ranks. The dialogue clearly indicates that the parents were okay with that as they would try to make their kids as presentable as possible to increase their chances of being chosen, but it's still underage recruiting with financial remuneration given to the said parents.

That seems a bit of a unsubtle reference, but possibly it works in the game.

Although the Megacorps are thought of as evil, with good reason, they have their aspirations just as the cyberpunks do. In accordance with the 'greatest happiness for the greatest number', they theoretically provide loyal employees at even the lowest ranks with a far better lifestyle than any slummer. Including the children you mention; it's not right, but nor are the Edgerunners' reckless crimes. The Corps profess to look after their own people, though the rest of the world goes to ruin, essentially as the better class of Cyberpunks fight for their chooms and no one else. If your cyberpunk universe doesn't also have plenty of backstabbing, sadistic edgerunners ready with torture and terrorism for fun and profit, you're not doing it right.

Of course, the Megacorps, despite the groundbreaking and lifesaving research they conduct, sometime without even testing their products on orphans, do much more damage than the worse edgerunners because of their size. They also do act against their own professions of honour even more often than the cyberpunks; the huge difference in power from the top to the bottom of a Corp has more potential for abuse than a cyberpunk crew's comparatively horizontal structure.

Although Noir is supposed to be a world with no heroes, we always seem to end up with a man to walk down mean streets. In cyberpunk, plucky underdogs cock a snook at corrupt corporations, often with a somewhat happy ending, because even respectable dragons still need to be slain. It's crime stories that can't have a happy ending. It shouldn't be forgotten that these punks are more human than heroic; insular, brutish criminals, locked into an absurdly self-destructive means of failing to satisfy their still-sympathetic human needs. It's a similar development from tales of knights in armour that even dragons who can't be slain, external and internal, still need to be fought.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

His first ripperdoc does mention that. We see his training montage and him getting some more cyberwear afterward. And then there was the timeskip.

He said he's amazed David hasn't collapsed sooner, but he never mentions why. The nosebleeds strongly implied it was because of the strain put on his brain and his nerves, there was nothing about how going at superspeed was tearing up his muscles or worse. I don't remember him complaining about his body hurting, for example.

He did start purchasing cyberwear before the timeskip, but it seemed to be about being able to run faster/longer (his first purchase were cyberlungs) rather than mitigating side-effects.

But it's just a minor complaint.

[ryllharu]

Originally Posted by Kanon

He said he's amazed David hasn't collapsed sooner, but he never mentions why. The nosebleeds strongly implied it was because of the strain put on his brain and his nerves, there was nothing about how going at superspeed was tearing up his muscles or worse. I don't remember him complaining about his body hurting, for example.

Mostly that you can't punch things with flesh and bone fists at time-dilation superspeed and expect them to hold up for long.