Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by frodonk

The King mentioned something about "you possess power unbecoming of the shield hero" which might mean that the previous shield heroes were too low levelled to have mattered in any fight during the previous waves, as the shield has always been very weak.

Maybe everyone's acting based on a predetermined script (the shield hero has always been useless) and the shield hero is bucking the trend because he knows nothing about how he's supposed to act. Maybe that's why they all hate the shield hero. Still says nothing about why Myne is so evil though.

I just assumed that was the king trying to take a dig at the Shield Hero being powerful at all, especially with how low an opinion the king has of him.

I do wonder if the original Shield Hero unlocked the Curse Shield.

[Kanon]

Given that the Soul Eater was level 89, then they were in fact all underleveled. Naofumi only managed to beat him because he's unlocked the cursed shield series, which is indeed really OP if it can enable him to beat an enemy that is more than twice his level.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by frodonk

From experience any sufficiently levelled character can steamroll over whatever skills the boss monster has, this is not clearly the case here.

Also, Glass was the true enemy in that wave, everything else might be considered as just "mobs", and the 3 did have problems with the higher levelled mob monsters.

Even Nao's flashy new skill wasn't enough to stop Glass, and he's the lowest level of them all, so I'd think they were all under-levelled this time around, with Shield having a slight advantage because of his unlocked skills.

Maybe I'm also thinking like this is a video game

Yes I believe you perhaps are. Game logic says that the next boss is going to be within the limits of what you can conceivably destroy with a high enough level, and that if you level enough anything can be taken with ease. The real world doesn't work that way though, and as a result you have to keep desperately fighting and searching for a way to deal with situations that are beyond unfair. The others don't realize this and go in viewing the boss as something "designed" as part of the "story" and thus assume that they can beat it because of their levels and weapons etc., but Naofumi goes in expecting things to be unreasonable and unfair and ready to strategize and struggle to find a way to overcome the impossible, which is why he's able to win with such low levels.

The King mentioned something about "you possess power unbecoming of the shield hero" which might mean that the previous shield heroes were too low levelled to have mattered in any fight during the previous waves, as the shield has always been very weak.

Maybe everyone's acting based on a predetermined script (the shield hero has always been useless) and the shield hero is bucking the trend because he knows nothing about how he's supposed to act. Maybe that's why they all hate the shield hero. Still says nothing about why Myne is so evil though.

I figured he was talking about the fact that he was using offensive power, and immense power at that. The shield's not supposed to be able to do anything but defend after all, so this would indeed appear to be a cheat of sorts. Given his predisposition to despise and suspect Naofumi it makes sense he'd be thinking he'd done something "improper" to gain such abilities.

Also, people seem to be assuming that the king's known previous Shields but the way I understood it the Waves aren't that common, like something that comes around every few centuries. The way it was said it sounded like they were going off of writings and the like rather than personal experience. But even if they hadn't met the previous Shields personally if they hate demi-humans and he was known to love and protect them, any problems they've had with demi-humans could have been projected onto the previous Shield.

[Lex79]

Regarding the assassination plot, I'm not 100% sure Malty is responsible. Yeah, she clearly resents her sister and she is probably wicked enough to want her dead, but I think she has more to loose than gain trying to have her killed. If her plan succeds, the shield hero is framed as the culprit and might be sentenced to death, something we already know is not a desiderable outcome because without his help the kingdom risks not being able to survive the waves. If she fails and is discovered...in the best case I can see her being exiled, in the worst executed. To me, it's too dangerous.

[frodonk]

1. Going by the previous summoning of the 4 heroes I think they didn't have that much difficulty dealing with the waves as we've seen with these current heroes. Of course we don't know much about the previous heroes (aside from the former shield hero being friendly with demi-humans) and the waves they've dealt with but if they had as much difficulty as the current group then it would've been passed down, maybe as stories of great casualties as the waves came and the heroes weren't able to save everyone.

Why is this important? It sets the tone that the waves are beatable by the heroes even if the enemies seemed overpowered. The only thing that has been mentioned about the prophecy of the 4 heroes is that they can "counter" the waves, which may mean that the waves are structured so that the heroes can definitely clear each wave when it comes.

If it's structured to be beatable, then if they're having a hard time it means that they're underlevelled, probably because they skipped wave 1 and didn't get the levels they were supposed to there.

And these 3 with their party members are supposed to have been class upgraded already!

(Eh, there are too many assumptions on this theory than what I'm comfortable with. Maybe I'm completely wrong )

2. Everyone, from the church of the 3 heroes, the king's surprise at shield hero's offensive skills during this wave and the games/novel the heroes have read all say that the shield hero is the most useless hero out of the 4.

This probably might've also affected the old shield hero, which may have been more knowledgeable than Nao with the lore of shield hero before he was summoned into the world and so didn't bother to unlock whatever the shield has to offer. This is the "script" everyone follows, that Nao has no idea existed, and what I think the king meant by his statement.

"Everyone knows that the shield hero is useless, why are you becoming so powerful now? What did you do? What's your secret? You're not fitting the role of the useless shield hero that everyone knows about!"

Out of every character introduced so far only the queen seems to not hate or dismiss the shield hero outright. The 3 stooges thought he was useless, the old mage, agil, and the soldier party all helped him after he has shown through his actions that he's not a bad guy, Nao's daughters don't count, and even Melty thinks it's Nao's fault that the king hates him, so why is the queen the only one with a different reaction? What does she know about the shield hero's lore??

3. If the attempt's mastermind isn't Myne, then it's an unknown new enemy, since at this point I can't see why a simulated assassination attempt would be useful in any way. The King won't think of doing something like this to Melty, same with the Queen, and add to that what Nao said when this reeked of a set up just like what Myne did..

If Melty's dead, Malty/Myne becomes the crown princess, Nao's framed as the murderer and the 3 stooges can go defeat the waves for the kingdom!

Makes you think what kind of childhood Myne had for her to turn out to be this evil! This is not just "hating the shield hero" type of evil, it's "I'm going to kill my sister and risk the future of this world/kingdom" level of evil!

[thundrakkon]

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Originally Posted by Lex79

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Originally Posted by frodonk

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The thing about Malty is that she cares only about herself and not the kingdom. All her plots and deception are for her benefit and fun. Even Melty calls her out about not caring for the kingdom. Hence, she was stripped of succession and Melty became crown princess instead. This probably led to her being even more resentful and even more self-serving and manipulative.


In other words, she doesn't even think about the consequences her actions cause. She is just very ignorant of that. People like that never believe that anything they do is wrong, and it's the world's fault for anything bad that happens. Besides, she can manipulate the king in her favor to come up with any excuses and cause all the nobles and church to follow suit.


So yeah, I'm positive it's all her, since these are royal guards who must be listening to someone in the royal family, she only thinks about herself, and she doesn't care about what happens to the kingdom, since it's her toy to play with.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by frodonk

1. Going by the previous summoning of the 4 heroes I think they didn't have that much difficulty dealing with the waves as we've seen with these current heroes. Of course we don't know much about the previous heroes (aside from the former shield hero being friendly with demi-humans) and the waves they've dealt with but if they had as much difficulty as the current group then it would've been passed down, maybe as stories of great casualties as the waves came and the heroes weren't able to save everyone.

Why is this important? It sets the tone that the waves are beatable by the heroes even if the enemies seemed overpowered. The only thing that has been mentioned about the prophecy of the 4 heroes is that they can "counter" the waves, which may mean that the waves are structured so that the heroes can definitely clear each wave when it comes.

If it's structured to be beatable, then if they're having a hard time it means that they're underlevelled, probably because they skipped wave 1 and didn't get the levels they were supposed to there.

And these 3 with their party members are supposed to have been class upgraded already!

(Eh, there are too many assumptions on this theory than what I'm comfortable with. Maybe I'm completely wrong )

2. Everyone, from the church of the 3 heroes, the king's surprise at shield hero's offensive skills during this wave and the games/novel the heroes have read all say that the shield hero is the most useless hero out of the 4.

This probably might've also affected the old shield hero, which may have been more knowledgeable than Nao with the lore of shield hero before he was summoned into the world and so didn't bother to unlock whatever the shield has to offer. This is the "script" everyone follows, that Nao has no idea existed, and what I think the king meant by his statement.

"Everyone knows that the shield hero is useless, why are you becoming so powerful now? What did you do? What's your secret? You're not fitting the role of the useless shield hero that everyone knows about!"

Out of every character introduced so far only the queen seems to not hate or dismiss the shield hero outright. The 3 stooges thought he was useless, the old mage, agil, and the soldier party all helped him after he has shown through his actions that he's not a bad guy, Nao's daughters don't count, and even Melty thinks it's Nao's fault that the king hates him, so why is the queen the only one with a different reaction? What does she know about the shield hero's lore??

3. If the attempt's mastermind isn't Myne, then it's an unknown new enemy, since at this point I can't see why a simulated assassination attempt would be useful in any way. The King won't think of doing something like this to Melty, same with the Queen, and add to that what Nao said when this reeked of a set up just like what Myne did..

If Melty's dead, Malty/Myne becomes the crown princess, Nao's framed as the murderer and the 3 stooges can go defeat the waves for the kingdom!

Makes you think what kind of childhood Myne had for her to turn out to be this evil! This is not just "hating the shield hero" type of evil, it's "I'm going to kill my sister and risk the future of this world/kingdom" level of evil!

I think you might have this in reverse. They don't say that the heroes "can counter" the waves, but rather that they're needed to counter them, a big distinction. It's not that the waves are "designed" to be "beatable" by the heroes, but rather they're so big that you need the heroes to stand a chance of beating them. Besides, we don't know what sort of difficulties the old heroes did or didn't face. We also don't know how long ago the previous Waves were or how much knowledge could be or was passed down. Say perhaps the last one was hundreds, maybe even a thousand or more years ago. You couldn't even be sure the texts would be well preserved or easily deciphered. At best you'd likely have copies passed down by the Church and others, who we've already seen possess a powerful bias against demi-humans and in turn the Shield. But we know that the threat is known as waves of CATASTROPHE, implying that there were indeed massive losses in the process of fighting these waves.

[The Green One]

Sadly Nafoumi missed a golden opportunity when the King demanded the secret of his power.

He should of said the other Heroes just need to "Git Gud!"

[frodonk]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

I think you might have this in reverse. They don't say that the heroes "can counter" the waves, but rather that they're needed to counter them, a big distinction. It's not that the waves are "designed" to be "beatable" by the heroes, but rather they're so big that you need the heroes to stand a chance of beating them. Besides, we don't know what sort of difficulties the old heroes did or didn't face. We also don't know how long ago the previous Waves were or how much knowledge could be or was passed down. Say perhaps the last one was hundreds, maybe even a thousand or more years ago. You couldn't even be sure the texts would be well preserved or easily deciphered. At best you'd likely have copies passed down by the Church and others, who we've already seen possess a powerful bias against demi-humans and in turn the Shield. But we know that the threat is known as waves of CATASTROPHE, implying that there were indeed massive losses in the process of fighting these waves.

I went back to episode 1, the King's exact words on the sub I saw was ".. only the four cardinal heroes could counter them, and so we followed the legend and summoned you four."

This is probably semantics at this point, I'll stop now, let us just see if something changes with the 3 stooges the next time Glass appears.