Macross Delta - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Thess]

She'll be a respectable old lady.

[Dash_Hunter]

I got goosebumps with the SDF music and again when Frontier's music started, but aside from that this recap episode was almost a waste, I mean, I understand that they kind of had to talk about all the past Macross animations for the people who are not familiar with them and maybe that would motivate them to watch them, but a whole episode for that was a bit too much for me.

Also, the thing about the protoculture using music and songs as weapons is just Berger's interpretation/theory, so we can't say that it's a fact yet. And even if maybe there's some truth behind it I think we could say that by the time the protoculture was facing extinction they changed their views, the ruins on planet Rax hinted at the protoculture wanting their children/creations to meet and coexist.

[D-Joe]

Originally Posted by CriiGV

Spoiler for Freyja:

Can I just say, I'm extremely disappointed (irritated?) with the way Freyja is getting constantly shot down with problem after problem. I get that it's part of developing her and making her grow but come on! The poor girl can't even catch a break.

She's already going to die at 30.
Is viewed as a traitor by her planet.
Was suspected as a spy by the people she was fighting to protect.
Got constantly questioned if she was really fit to be a Walkure and her determination.
The guy she likes turned out to be the son of the guy who nuked her planet.
Got controlled by the protoculture ruins and screwed Hayate over as well.
Is feeling guilty for something that isn't even her fault.
Now she's told her songs are a weapon and that she's basically been hurting/killing Hayate and others in the process.
Her love for songs was crushed because "songs are a weapon and evil".
And to top it off she's being set up as this "too good for this world sacrificial lamb" who will end up giving up her life in order to save everyone else.

I'm just so over it and frustrated. Why can't she just catch a break. It's like she can't be happy and content for an episode before something else has to come up and throw her to the bottom of the hole again.

I'd be more ok with this if the other MC's were also provided with the same amount of problems and hurdles. Sure Hayate has some things as well, but it's not the same amount as Freyja. And Mirage...oh god don't even get me started on Mirage.

Anyway, I guess that's just plot and stuff so I can't complain.

But I guess it speaks well of Freyja's development if viewers are capable of sympathizing for her and feeling her pain. Idk, sorry. I'm just going to go and drink some margaritas now to forget my pain.

Not sure what you disappointed when your favorite character keep getting chance after chance to solve her issues when Mirage didn't even get any chance from the writer to solve her "supposedly easy to overcome" issues.

Macross isn't a comedy show so of course she got many problems, but in the end she will solve it because she is the core of this show.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

Also, the thing about the protoculture using music and songs as weapons is just Berger's interpretation/theory, so we can't say that it's a fact yet.

There is some truth in it. When Roid activated the Protoculture system, Freyja became some kind of robotic singer who would just power up Hayate to max. IN short, a weapon, but it removed her entire personality and consent.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Spoiler:

Roid gives his theory why Windermereans are heirs of the Protoculture. Windermereans are fundamentally different from Terrans due to their Runes. Their Runes act more like Fold Quartz. This makes them special among all the other races created by the Protoculture. To him Wind Singers are proof of it.

My theory is that they are just prototypes that the protoculture intended to throw away after they completed those like Mikumo.

[Mistyclear]

Did anyone else while watching this episode get the strongest urge to watch the other Macross series... Particularly the original .

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Mistyclear

Did anyone else while watching this episode get the strongest urge to watch the other Macross series... Particularly the original .

It made me want to watch 7 again, though I'd still skip all of the silly side plots.

[dmaxzero]

I watched Macross Plus, again, while drawing because this episode.

[Thess]

The original tv series of Macross wouldn't have any of this backstory foreshadowing because Kawamori started working on it in DYRL.

1. Genetic response to song.
2. Minmay's earrings which resemble fold quartz.
3. Kawamori started working on Mikumo concept since DYRL.

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by Thess

The original tv series of Macross wouldn't have any of this backstory foreshadowing because Kawamori started working on it in DYRL.

1. Genetic response to song.
2. Minmay's earrings which resemble fold quartz.
3. Kawamori started working on Mikumo concept since DYRL.

I didn't mean for foreshadowing....

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Mistyclear

I didn't mean for foreshadowing....

I don't understand then? Didn't you mean looking for clues about the protoculture designs?

Not that matters, we know Kawamori's stance on songs to reasonably guess the direction from here. This was just Arab's cosplayer's throwing a wrench to make Walkure angst and do some soul searching.

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by Thess

I don't understand then? Didn't you mean looking for clues about the protoculture designs?

Not that matters, we know Kawamori's stance on songs to reasonably guess the direction from here. This was just Arab's cosplayer's throwing a wrench to make Walkure angst and do some soul searching.

Because it was nostalgic listening to the music from the previous Macross franchise (and all in one go).

[Thess]

Oh yeah. Macross song made me pumped.

I still can't stop laughing at the Plot Device Doctor they just introduced out nowhere to turn Keith against Roid completely.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Convoy

Do postmodern humans in Macross have lifespans that long?

Dude Shammy was only 18 when Space War 1 started. It has been 57 years since then in-universe. She'd be 75 years old. We've increased our average lifespan to 80. Some going in their 90's and more. Why do you think it isn't possible?

On the Protoculture and songs, we have to note though that there are different factions of Protoculture.

On Ouroboros it was Mina Forte's father who discovered Song Energy. There also implication that the Protoculture discovered Anima Spiritia during their war with the Protodevlin. Songs aren't meant to enslave but to free people from Mind Control. We've seen this from Basara, Ranka and Myung. On Myung Berger doesn't know as the battle on SDF-1 Macross as it wasn't fully disclosed to public. YF-19 and YF-21 breaking through the defense grid was still classified in 2051.

However Berger may be correct the Protoculture also intended Fold wave songs as a weapon. While generally Terrans are nerfed of their Space-Time Resonance Ability or Fold Receptor Factor some bloodlines like the Nomes possess it that they can sense people's emotions like Windermereans do. Again while NUNS has declassified about the Mayan island incident they didn't declassify everything. To advanced bio weapons like the Evil Series and Bird Human Terrans with their Fold ability are like batteries for their regenerative functions. Again NUNS kept some info classified as Macross FB7 showed Ozma and others didn't know stuff like Protodevlin being space vampires.

The fundamental difference between Heinz and other Macross singers that Roid didn't fathom due to his pride is the polarity of their songs. Basara and others emit positive emotions. Heinz and Sharon Apple emit negative emotions.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Again while NUNS has declassified about the Mayan island incident they didn't declassify everything. To advanced bio weapons like the Evil Series and Bird Human Terrans with their Fold ability are like batteries for their regenerative functions. Again NUNS kept some info classified as Macross FB7 showed Ozma and others didn't know stuff like Protodevlin being space vampires.

Remember that all that appears in those shows/games are shows/games in universe because it's fictionalized history. So the entirety of Macross Zero should be known to everyone in Macross. Hell, Ranka and Alto starred in a remake about that classic not so long ago.

Of course, being meta of our meta, maybe this show is pretending they don't know all details of Macross 30 or 7.

[Key Board]

it's interesting that Var is related to the Vajra microbes
but it almost feels awkward with the Vajra themselves not being here

edit: IIRC Roid said that Windemerean runes are like fold receptors
and Vajra have these organs naturally

what if Windemereans are Protoculture versions of the Ranka Lee experiment?
in other words, to create a humanoid with a fold receptor organ?
what if Wind Singers are their version of the Vajra queen?

Will we see Windemereans initiate space fold with their bodies by the end of this show?
hmm..

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Key Board

it's interesting that Var is related to the Vajra microbes
but it almost feels awkward with the Vajra themselves not being here

edit: IIRC Roid said that Windemerean runes are like fold receptors
and Vajra have these organs naturally

what if Windemereans are Protoculture versions of the Ranka Lee experiment?
in other words, to create a humanoid with a fold receptor organ?
what if Wind Singers are their version of the Vajra queen?

Will we see Windemereans initiate space fold with their bodies by the end of this show?
hmm..

Macross Extra already made that obvious (the var experiments began with someone with a giant dead Vajra body in a tube and all...). Kawamori also said this earlier:

After the Vajra disappeared, Fold Bacteria began to spread more widely across the galaxy. To interject, the term Folding is one used in Macross to cover travel through hyperspace. In that, you “fold” space-time and punch a hole through to travel greater distances. In Macross Frontier, new concepts were introduced called Fold Waves and Fold Bacteria and it’s these that are being extended upon in Macross Delta. The Fold Bacteria can sense Fold Waves and tend to be situated in a person's gut, I suppose they are somewhat parasitic. They can in some situations, due to the increase of Fold Waves, have a bad effect on people. The Fold Bacteria can increase Fold Waves but they are unable to directly Fold individuals. While they can stay in the gut, if they get to the brain or other organs (bar the gut obviously) then that can get very dangerous. This is all related to the Var Syndrome but I don't want to spoil too many details of that.

So to clarify, the Var Syndrome is a phenomena that results in humans and animals becoming incredibly aggressive.

Maybe the Windermerian's bodies break down because of the fold effects when their bodies aren't, well, folding? Just a thought. Overexposure to fold waves made Cassim 'age' or break faster, imo.

[Convoy]

I predict that by the end of this show, the Windermereans will discover how to live longer either by experimenting with or severing their fold capabilities. If Berger's theory about music being bad holds true, then perhaps the latter is the key.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Thess

Maybe the Windermerian's bodies break down because of the fold effects when their bodies aren't, well, folding? Just a thought. Overexposure to fold waves made Cassim 'age' or break faster, imo.

Well, we haven't seen Ranka for a while, and I suppose its possible she looks like Mao now but... I dunno, I kind of chalk this one up to a Protoculture fail-safe, kinda like replicants or something. Lord knows they have had a spotty history when it came to genetic engineering.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Thess

Maybe the Windermerian's bodies break down because of the fold effects when their bodies aren't, well, folding? Just a thought. Overexposure to fold waves made Cassim 'age' or break faster, imo.

According to Macross Chronicle technology sheet Space Fold when you fold your ethereal body or spirit separate. As the spirit exist in fold space to begin with. This is the reason why some people like Sheryl have Fold sickness which is similar to motion sickness symptoms.

Freyja is having out of body experience similar to Sheryl, Ranka and Alto at the end of Frontier.