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View Poll Results: Macross Delta - Episode 11 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 4 | 13.33% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 13 | 43.33% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 7 | 23.33% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 10.00% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 2 | 6.67% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 3.33% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll |
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2016-06-14, 04:24 | Link #43 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Interesting fact. The Brisingr globular cluster has 8 billion inhabitants. Gramia intends to enslave them all and genocide the Earthers. Most of those are likely Voldoran, Ragnan and Windermerean but he intends to kill all those who oppose him.
Gramia is pretty much the instigator of the independence war and this war. Why? He is driven by pride and a lust for misplaced vengeance. He is doing an immediate attack as he doesn't trust Heinz wont be swayed by Walkure. He is aware of Earther's feats of pacifying the Zentradi , Protodevlin and Vajra. Roid believes Windermereans are the true successors of the Protoculture and Heinz is to be the King of all Protoculture races. Arrogance on his part. Keith gives him a flaw in his reasoning as Winderereans were given a short life. Roid please if there is to be a king of the Protoculture due to being a wind singer it should go to Basara. All races in the galaxy at the moment are Sub-Protoculture if the Protoculture found out all the shit your race is doing they'd send the Bird Human to wipe you out. Oh the only known possible Protoculture around is an idol named Mina Forte and she has mostly amnesia. Given the gravity of the threat Earth couldn't treat this as a local problem anymore as 8 billion people are at risk. Earthers are still recovering their population numbers. The only ones with those numbers are Zentradi main fleets. Al Shahal has at least 40 counted ships in orbit. Windermere fleet don't have those numbers but make up for it with the Sigur Valens. An ancient Protoculture warship. Given the unknown quantity I'm not sure a Battle class or Macross Quarters are enough. Something like a Varauta Fleet Flagship Carrier with 8 Macros cannons and super sized Reaction warheads. Oh the Aerail Knights had to retreat last episode as not only did Messer damage their units he also wrecked Keith's Sv-262Hs Energy Conversion Armor. Last edited by ReddyRedWolf; 2016-06-14 at 04:38. |
2016-06-14, 04:35 | Link #44 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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Well, then. I think Hayate is reacting a bit pridefully (probably because he was very emotional at that moment). If he thinks he can immediately replace Messer in a crisis like the one they are facing now, he'd have to get a basically impossible jump in skill. Delta should get a new pilot, if only to get even numbers with the Knights. Or am I counting wrong here and the Knights always had six members?
On the Windbag front, I see their chances of having a big turnaround and joining the good guys getting ever smaller. At this point, their plan is revealed and it is mindraping 8 billion people (which includes the civilians, babies and all). Wow, what good guys they are turning out to be. Can't wait to see what the apologists will come up with this week to defend the indefensible. Probably another round of "Nyuck nyuck, I look forward to people's reaction when the Windermerans join the good guys" premature gloating.
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2016-06-14, 06:36 | Link #46 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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As I was saying all along. |
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2016-06-14, 06:49 | Link #47 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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It just show he is clueless about what is happening in the sky in all their encounters. |
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2016-06-14, 07:33 | Link #48 | ||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Also, the way the old king consider Walkure to be such a big deal of a threat making it such a waste that the knights didn't take some quick shots at them right after Messer's death. Like arad himself mentioned, without Messer, their force's effectiveness got reduced by 37% (that's a big number). Add to that, two Walkure got KO-ed and three Chaos pilots available are below Messer in terms of skill which one of them (Hayate) being a reckless noob pilot without Frei's singing. Such a waste of chance. Quote:
Also, I'd like to join the "clueless Hayate" bandwagon. Here's hoping Arad didn't listen to him coz unless someone in Chaos got a major powerup in fighting skill, things aren't gonna go well for Chaos the next time the knights come for them (and come for them they shall).
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2016-06-14, 08:18 | Link #49 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Finally had a chance to look at the sub, and here's a line I'd have translated differently:
@19:18 『そんなもん…なってみないとわからねーだろ…なんでも分かった顔して…一人で勝手に決めつけてんじゃねぇ よ!』: And we were supposed to figure that out? Don't just look all smart as if you knew everything! => How could you know that? Acting as if you knew everything...how dare you decide that kind of thing all on your own!
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2016-06-14, 08:56 | Link #50 |
Japanese Culture Fan
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 33
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Excellent episode, one of my favorites in Delta so far and that means a lot considering how consistently amazing it has been throughout. Character deaths in Macross have always been handled with an appropriate level of gravitas and finality and this was no exception. The use of the wonderful M7 song Remember 16 near the end of the episode was the cherry on top of the cake.
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2016-06-14, 09:13 | Link #52 |
Senior Member
Author
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I get what Episode 11 was aiming for, and some of it was well-executed. The episode did have its moments. But the criticisms voiced here by some other viewers are very valid. I don't like saying it, but I consider this one of the two or three weakest Delta episodes so far.
It really is hard to understand why Bogue, of all people, wouldn't try to take out Walkure given the glorious opportunity presented by Messer falling in battle. It probably would have been better if there was a quick scene or quick flashback, or heck even just a quick explanation, of NUN reinforcements arriving to force Windermere into a believable retreat. And I get what they were aiming for with Hayate saying he'd personally make up for Messer's loss, but yeah, it truly is ridiculous. The show may well force it to work by Hayate getting just that good that quickly, but that in and of itself would be ridiculous. I get that the show wants the characters to feel very emotional and sentimental over Messer's loss, but they overdid it with Hayate's statement here. Finally... Yeah, Windermere truly is crossing the moral event horizon. Kawamori and Nemoto really are going too far with Windermere if the plan is for Roid and the Aerial Knights to eventually be redeemed and teamed up with Delta Squadron against the supposed real enemy. Mentally enslaving 8 billion people... That's freaking Dr. Doom on his worst day. At this point, I want Windermere stopped, by any means necessary.
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2016-06-14, 10:10 | Link #53 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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And I don't want them just stopped, I want them curbstomped. If I am supposed to feel sympathy for them Winds, its a bit too late for that. - Tak
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2016-06-14, 10:12 | Link #54 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
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2016-06-14, 10:30 | Link #56 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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I'm not even sure why are so many horrified about "mind control" when protodeviln did the same already and they also possessed humans... and how that turned out? Mind control or singing to coerce people is a pretty common weapon in Macross. Didn't Earthlings used Minmay against Zentraedi as a musical weapon once? I'm 100% sure they would have also resorted to Var if they had it to win that battle. I'm not saying it's "good", but it's simply a means to an end and not the first time it was used in Macross. So this shock and horror is extremely puzzling.
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2016-06-14, 11:06 | Link #57 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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With the Protodevlin they are Eldritch Abominations from another dimension truly alien that did what they did to survive after being brought into the third dimension.They saw rampant over feeding will kill the galaxy and themselves so they sought the most expedient alternate means to do so. Basara just showed them a permanent solution to their problem and they left. It's pretty much lets leave each other alone is for the best. Music isn't a weapon per se. In SDF Macross it emphasizes on Culture Shock. This involves civilian life, music, since most Zentradi are guys attraction to the opposite gender which applies to their female counterparts as they have been indoctrinated as soldiers and segregated. It isn't mind control but psychological warfare. They didn't realize Culture's effect on Zentrad until they got defectors to their side. Lets also go by the numbers. Several hundred thousand Varauta colonists enslaved along with whatever survivors of Macross 5 as the Varauta Army. Gramia is planing on enslaving 8 billion people and has admitted to be on the path of genocide of Earthers and those who ally with them. If you think this is moral by your standards then you better ask yourself what is your standards of right and wrong. |
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2016-06-14, 11:17 | Link #58 | ||
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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Yeah, mind control wasn't pretty. If not downright horrifying. Quote:
Of the 7,500,000,000 Zentradi personnel involved in the siege of Earth, only 8,000,000 remained with humanity. The rest fled and regrouped, becoming a thorn to the NUN since. - Tak
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2016-06-14, 11:19 | Link #59 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Protodevlin aren't more "true aliens" than Windermerians. Windermerians are more humanized, but they are still freaking aliens with a different moral code and system. Quote:
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Do I find their actions 'wrong'? Well sure, but I don't necessary think it's evil. I believe Macross is built and inspired partly by Rorty's sense of morality and benevolence and how those are inventions. In the sense that only when two groups recognize and acknowledge each other as people, the empathy begins. Music is a bridge to that purpose. Windermerians aren't acknowledging humans as people as them just like the Vajra didn't. It's the same thing, IMO. Hits closer home because they are more humanized, but still has the same set up, IMO. It's all about your feelings rather than some rational sense of morality. That's why the game changer is a song; and what are the main obstacles, aside of not sharing the same lexical is that a group doesn't possess security to allow themselves that sense of sympathy for others. Windermerians like the Aerial Knights are scared and pressured, as long as they feel that way, they'll be unable to sympathize. Heinz will be the bridge because of his connection to Freyja and Mikumo, IMO. But again, change is about a sentimental education rather than some preaching. Macross has always enabled feelings as more important than a rational speech of what's wrong and right like Gundam which shows is more postmodernism.
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Last edited by Thess; 2016-06-14 at 11:35. |
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2016-06-14, 11:36 | Link #60 |
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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You know, I thought rain was supposed to be something you only experienced outside the house, strange huh, this indoor rain ;-;
Anyways, this episode really nails the feeling of mourning, and showing it so naturally too: it never comes across as cheesy or dramatic, and even the moments when the crew laugh and joke around still carries the atmosphere of trying their best to be happy even in mourning. As for the Windermerians.... oh look, it's a nice, big ancient battleship ripe for a well-placed and deserved MACROSS CANNON TO THE FACE
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