F/SN UBW TV - Episode 24 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[Levani]

Isn't Gilgamesh unskilled with a sword? Shirou actually has experience thanks to Kiritsugu, Taiga and Saber.

[Loremaster]

If episode 25 is an hour long episode as believed. Then its most likely we'll see an after the fact scenes with saber. Probably showing that she finally died and no longer stuck in limbo.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Levani

Isn't Gilgamesh unskilled with a sword? Shirou actually has experience thanks to Kiritsugu, Taiga and Saber.

Speaking of that, it really doesn't make any sense to me for Gilgamesh not to be a good fighter, be it with a sword or otherwise. They really must have had to change his background to a great deal if they think being a wealthy king is what he is best known for.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by monster

Speaking of that, it really doesn't make any sense to me for Gilgamesh not to be a good fighter, be it with a sword or otherwise. They really must have had to change his background to a great deal if they think being a wealthy king is what he is best known for.

He has to have one weakness, GoB is too powerful as it is. xD

If episode 25 is an hour long episode as believed. Then its most likely we'll see an after the fact scenes with saber. Probably showing that she finally died and no longer stuck in limbo.

I think it's been debunked that it's not an hour long episode but rather a regular 20 minutes one.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Levani

He has to have one weakness, GoB is too powerful as it is. xD.

Sure, but that's a problem of their own making.

[Levani]

Gilgamesh may just not be skilled with a sword. He's an Archer, he could've been skilled with a bow or something.

I haven't read the Epic to talk about in detail about him, unfortunately, but I kind of always assumed that he could do GoB in life as well, so he didn't need to learn how to fight. Am I wrong?

[Theminimanx]

As someone who was rather underwhelmed by the series so far, I really loved this episode. Sure, the shot composition is still a bit meh, but WHO CARES THE ACTION WAS AWESOME!

[kakakka]

Maybe I'm tired, but not feeling the fight. The dialogue also made me cringe on how repetitive it was. Agree with monster;

Originally Posted by monster

The only thing I don't agree with is Shirou capitulating to the idea that his ideal is a fake and not his own. Sure, he didn't come up with it. But just because he got it from someone else doesn't mean it didn't become his own as well. When it comes to ideals and worldviews, we are influenced by our interactions with other people. And when we encounter something we can agree with or live by, it becomes a part of us.

My thoughts is that at this point, Shirou should have realized the ideal is his own since he had sort out what it really meant for him back during his fight with Archer (S2 ep8). That's why I felt disconnect with the following episode; never have I imagine they go back and make him repeat it again.

I'll rewatch later after some sleep I guess.

[Rising Dragon]

That's just it. It's perfectly fine for Shirou's ideals to not be his own. Like everything else in his current existence, it's an inheritance without the original meaning. His life was given to him by Kiritsugu, as was Avalon. His ideals were given to him by Kiritsugu. Even his skills and gear were given to him, in a sense, by Archer. They are all a "fake", as Shirou himself is a "fake". And for Shirou, that's fine.

Because Shirou believes that there is absolutely no reason as to why a fake or replica cannot surpass the original. Be it in weapons or ideals. Kiritsugu tried and failed to be a true hero, but Shirou is determined to succeed where Kiritsugu failed.

[Salva]

Originally Posted by kakakka

Maybe I'm tired, but not feeling the fight. The dialogue also made me cringe on how repetitive it was. Agree with monster;



My thoughts is that at this point, Shirou should have realized the ideal is his own since he had sort out what it really meant for him back during his fight with Archer (S2 ep8). That's why I felt disconnect with the following episode; never have I imagine they go back and make him repeat it again.

I'll rewatch later after some sleep I guess.

So I'm not the only one, I felt like a weirdo for not seeing an "awesome, epic fight".

[kakakka]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

That's just it. It's perfectly fine for Shirou's ideals to not be his own. Like everything else in his current existence, it's an inheritance without the original meaning. His life was given to him by Kiritsugu, as was Avalon. His ideals were given to him by Kiritsugu. Even his skills and gear were given to him, in a sense, by Archer. They are all a "fake", as Shirou himself is a "fake". And for Shirou, that's fine.

Because Shirou believes that there is absolutely no reason as to why a fake or replica cannot surpass the original. Be it in weapons or ideals. Kiritsugu tried and failed to be a true hero, but Shirou is determined to succeed where Kiritsugu failed.

I am quite in agreement with what you mean. But the idea to equate "fake (word)" like that does not sit well with me. Even if he succeed in his goals while having borrowed everything from someone else, even if he borrowed the goal itself; for me the moment he shape those into making those happen, that is not fake, that's how he mold his own reality. That, for me, is "real".

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

That's just it. It's perfectly fine for Shirou's ideals to not be his own.

But they became his own.

Like everything else in his current existence, it's an inheritance without the original meaning. His life was given to him by Kiritsugu, as was Avalon. His ideals were given to him by Kiritsugu. Even his skills and gear were given to him, in a sense, by Archer.

Exactly, so they now belong to him, aside from whatever magical stuff he got from Archer that he will apparently lose again.

They are all a "fake", as Shirou himself is a "fake". And for Shirou, that's fine.

Because Shirou believes that there is absolutely no reason as to why a fake or replica cannot surpass the original. Be it in weapons or ideals. Kiritsugu tried and failed to be a true hero, but Shirou is determined to succeed where Kiritsugu failed.

His weapons may be duplicates and fakes, but not his life nor his ideals.

[Gaulek]

I don't think he lose his skills except Rin's mana.
Anyway, he will train.

Originally Posted by Levani

Gilgamesh may just not be skilled with a sword. He's an Archer, he could've been skilled with a bow or something.

I haven't read the Epic to talk about in detail about him, unfortunately, but I kind of always assumed that he could do GoB in life as well, so he didn't need to learn how to fight. Am I wrong?

Didn't read the epic too bu the wikia say this:
"Gilgamesh encountered Enkidu for the first time outside of the Temple of Uruk, who immediately stated that he would reprimand the King and rectify his arrogance. They entered a battle that spanned several days, and Gilgamesh was forced to use all his strength to match his transforming opponent. He was either angered or surprised at having found his equal for the first time, insulting Enkidu as a clod of mud. He was forced to draw out his treasures that had been carefully stored away, marking the first use of the Gate of Babylon as a weapon, and although it was a reluctant and forced humiliation at first, he eventually began to enjoy it and brought them out without regret."

[Geburah]

Love how they managed to slip "A New Dawn" plus "This Illusion" piano version from the VN. Despite that I like good ending as the "happiest" ending of Fate, i admit that the true ending feels more proper than Rin's Harem ending xD

[Mangonel]

Originally Posted by monster

Sure, but that's a problem of their own making.

Gilgamesh's biggest weakness is his ego as King. He said it himself, one of the 'troubles' of being King is you can never go all out on someone or you'll be acknowledging them as your equal something a King does not have.

Shirou keeps smashing his notion of how powerful a 'mongrel' should be and this catches Gilgamesh off guard. Add that to his hesitation to 'make' Shirou his equal by going all out and thats what leads to his 'defeat'. Mind you hes still a servant and had the Grail not gone black-hole on him he still would have killed Shirou in the end.

[Dengar]

That moment of hesitation before he grabbed Ea. And then his face when he realised it was too late.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Mangonel

Gilgamesh's biggest weakness is his ego as King. He said it himself, one of the 'troubles' of being King is you can never go all out on someone or you'll be acknowledging them as your equal something a King does not have.

Shirou keeps smashing his notion of how powerful a 'mongrel' should be and this catches Gilgamesh off guard. Add that to his hesitation to 'make' Shirou his equal by going all out and thats what leads to his 'defeat'.

Even with his ego, he still would've defeated Shirou if he was a better fighter.

Mind you hes still a servant and had the Grail not gone black-hole on him he still would have killed Shirou in the end.

Agreed, not to mention Archer being there.

[Dengar]

The reason Gilgamesh is so unbeatable is because he always has the right tool for the job. Being physically skilled isn't really necessary.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Dengar

The reason Gilgamesh is so unbeatable is because he always has the right tool for the job. Being physically skilled isn't really necessary.

Well, we're talking about in this case. And actually, aside from Ea and that chain, most of his weapons he just used as a spear to skewer the enemy, not really a sign of making use of the right tool for the job.

[Polarpew]

Originally Posted by Levani

Gilgamesh may just not be skilled with a sword. He's an Archer, he could've been skilled with a bow or something.

I haven't read the Epic to talk about in detail about him, unfortunately, but I kind of always assumed that he could do GoB in life as well, so he didn't need to learn how to fight. Am I wrong?

he's actually a pretty decent fighter, He freaking tied with Enkidu in wrestling (considering Enkidu has berserker level strength, that's something). Not to mention Gil killed the Bull of Heaven. What they were trying to explain is that Gilgamesh never perfected any of the NP in his vault. The only ones he mastered were Ea and Enkidu. So this fight seemed a lil eh in how could Shirou match Gil in swordplay.

I did like UfoTable showed how Gil hesitated when reaching for Ea which resulted in his loss, much like how Archer hesitated in giving the final blow against Shirou, resulting in his loss too. Seems like Shirou is winning solely on dumb luck against all his opponents