F/SN UBW TV - Episode 10 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[Jaden]

Oh, for a while there I thought they were going to show Archer's story. But I don't think they will because it wasn't in the source material, it's a bit too early for it, and it'd be something very similar to Kiritsugu's story in F/Z.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Kanon

This adaptation keeps getting better and better, which is quite a feat given that it was almost perfect from the get-go. The fights in this episode were just incredible. Kuzuki is truly a beast.

Archer's flashback was weird. It looked like it took place in a distant past (what with people using polearms and swords), but all we know he's from the future. What was that?

All those weapons were his though.

And like people have been saying, Shirou using Traced weapons to great effect is Shirou's special ability.

[Craxuan]

It's one of his experiences as a Heroic Spirit, maybe? Not sure if this is spoilers, but Archer has been betrayed again and again throughout his life and afterlife. That depiction was just one of the countless betrayals he faced to uphold his belief.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Good episode.
Gotta love Saber always getting schooled by every single of her opponents.
This is where I remember DEEN Fate started getting all over the place.

I agree. The "Kuzuki & Caster"-part was the least enjoyable part of DEEN anime back when I was still an anime-only watcher. But this episode makes the similar events awesome and a lot more enjoyable.

Originally Posted by R.LocK

You're two episodes late for this comment and way too wrong to write 'finally'. Music has always been good in UBW, it just doesn't get tuned out by action anymore.

There's no right or wrong when it comes to personal preferences. If he thinks the music finally being good in this episode, so be it. Or are you going to waste your time "correcting" all the comments from people who think the music of UBW isn't as good as they expected?

Originally Posted by Kanon

Archer's flashback was weird. It looked like it took place in a distant past (what with people using polearms and swords), but all we know he's from the future. What was that?

Nasu should've been more creative and invite a character from the distant future with futuristic weapons :P. Maybe a Lightsaber (or a mini version of Beam Sabers from Gundam-verse) or a futuristic gun? A man with a gun can still be Archer, right?

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

There's no right or wrong when it comes to personal preferences. If he thinks the music finally being good in this episode, so be it. Or are you going to waste your time "correcting" all the comments from people who think the music of UBW isn't as good as they expected?

Music score is consistently good which is as impartial as I can go. Anyway, I'm going to correct people's mistaken impressions as long as I don't see a goddamn disclaimer like IMHO.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Nasu should've been more creative and invite a character from the distant future with futuristic weapons :P. Maybe a Lightsaber (or a mini version of Beam Sabers from Gundam-verse) or a futuristic gun? A man with a gun can still be Archer, right?

I read somewhere that the reason why there's no modern war veteran in the throne of heroes is because their feats is only made possible because of their guns and not strictly by themselves, i.e. their identity is the gun so they can't be stored in the throne.

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Nasu should've been more creative and invite a character from the distant future with futuristic weapons :P. Maybe a Lightsaber (or a mini version of Beam Sabers from Gundam-verse) or a futuristic gun? A man with a gun can still be Archer, right?

Sadly, as explained in VN - only humans from past can be heroic spirits. As humans from modern times and from the future are not 'worthy enough' in becoming heroic spirits. And reasonably since they would be too OP for anyone. Imagine Heroic Spirit Zhukhov? Endless waves of artillery, planes, tanks and infantry in one gigantic reality marble xD.

Only Shirou was special in that case,

Spoiler for Fate/Kindred Ilya on Arhcer:

and we know know it was not because of his ideals but because of his constant use of UBW marble.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Archer's flashback was weird. It looked like it took place in a distant past (what with people using polearms and swords), but all we know he's from the future. What was that?

I thought it might have also been showing a bit of Angra Manyu's past though I wouldn't know why. If all that was Archer, then I agree that they should've given it a more futuristic look.

[Side-streetdog]

It's understandable why Saber got owned by Kuzuki and Shiro repel Kuzuki attack.

They both underestimate their opponent.
Saber and others was thought Kuzuki is a normal master or mage so Saber got fatal attack then not have time to recovery.

...This fight had show how rider were defeated and end like that, Kuzuki attack brutally destroy neck.

And yes Kuzuki also underestimate Shiro. Even gone far as ignore him and go for Rin first.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Haak

I thought it might have also been showing a bit of Angra Manyu's past though I wouldn't know why. If all that was Archer, then I agree that they should've given it a more futuristic look.

Could Archer have been summoned in the past by the World or some other way? Because that would explain it.

[Geburah]

Heroic Spirits are made up of those who truly existed, those only from legends, and those who were never observed at all.Those who existed had belief of their deeds gathered upon their deaths and were sublimated into beings of higher rank, while those who only existed in myths and legends were born from the gathering of those beliefs even though they didn't exist. Those who were not observed are those who made a contract of some sort with the world during their lives and subsequently became Heroic Spirits, Counter Guardians, after their deaths as compensation.

The phenomenon applies to any human, animal, or machine that has left behind great enough achievements, but weapons becoming Heroic Spirits from being worshipped as the "greatest weapon of that era" must harbor a soul to achieve such a status.

Each Heroic Spirit is a unique existence, "the one and only", who each stood out from the others of their time by performing deeds and possessing qualities that no other possessed. They are mostly limited to individuals born before the end of the 19th century due to the development of modern weaponry, but people from modern times and even the future can still become Counter Guardians through contracts with the world. While modern weapons are powerful, it would not normally be possible to summon a "warrior from the future loaded with modern weaponry" because it is difficult for such people to become classified as Heroic Spirits. Modern weapons grant ease of use with the advantage of "anyone can use them as long as they were trained", so those who use them are "faceless heroes" who lack any qualities because they possess "expertise anyone can achieve through sufficient training." Heroes loaded with modern weapons would not become the Heroic Spirit, but rather only the weapon being worshipped so long as it harbors a soul

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by Side-streetdog

And yes Kuzuki also underestimate Shiro. Even gone far as ignore him and go for Rin first.

But he was right. You should go for support first.

[goblehook]

Originally Posted by Polarpew

eh not really, Assassin is a Heroic Spirit so by default its not 'normal' Kuzuki is really the one who's amazing here with his Snake fist that's unpredictable enough to seriously mess even Saber up if it was one-on-one to the death. (who did you think killed Rider so easily?) Bare fists bro, thats skill right there

He was a perfectly normal human before his life comes to an end. His physical strengths, skills and abilities has not change now that he has become a pseudo-Heroic Spirit. Unlike everyone else who uses hax weapons or skills. All assassin ever have is his swordsmanship and a body that is not above human limitations

[Tenzen12]

He might not have any legendary HAXes in his arsenal, but master swordsman or not, he would get smashed on spot if he had mere human speed and strenght.

[goblehook]

Really? I'm under the impression that he doesn't block attacks that he can't meet. He either parries, avoids or counters attacks that are beyond him. While using feign and anticipation to move before his enemies when lacking in speed.

[R.LocK]

FA's got stats, so no, he's definitely above a normal human being.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Geburah

Modern weapons grant ease of use with the advantage of "anyone can use them as long as they were trained", so those who use them are "faceless heroes" who lack any qualities because they possess "expertise anyone can achieve through sufficient training."l

Eh, what applies to guns also applies to traditional weapons though. Anyone can use it as long as they train and practice. But, like in any other aspects of life, there are individuals who are gifted with the weapons more than everybody else. Chu can handle spear better than most people is just like Ethan Hunt or Jason Borne that can aim their guns better and shoot faster than most people with the same weapons (I use fictional characters as examples coz F/SN also use fictional characters).

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

I read somewhere that the reason why there's no modern war veteran in the throne of heroes is because their feats is only made possible because of their guns and not strictly by themselves, i.e. their identity is the gun so they can't be stored in the throne.

How about someone like Rambo or James Bond that can took out multiple guys with firearms? Yes, they use guns, but we can see that the guns (and bazooka, and chopper, and tanks) don’t discredit their skills and accomplishments more than past heroes. So yeah, I found that reason a bit strange since every type of hand-held practical weapons practically has the same principle (unless you’re talking about martial arts that come with the traditional weapons). IMO It’s more how you use the weapons and for what.

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

Sadly, as explained in VN - only humans from past can be heroic spirits. As humans from modern times and from the future are not 'worthy enough' in becoming heroic spirits. And reasonably since they would be too OP for anyone. Imagine Heroic Spirit Zhukhov? Endless waves of artillery, planes, tanks and infantry in one gigantic reality marble xD.

Ouch, there goes my wish of seeing a Jedi summoned as a Servant .

Originally Posted by R.LocK

Music score is consistently good which is as impartial as I can go. Anyway, I'm going to correct people's mistaken impressions as long as I don't see a goddamn disclaimer like IMHO.

You do realize that the “good” part is highly subjective right? That in itself is an opinion and personal preference . Like I said, there's no right or wrong in that.

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

You do realize that the “good” part is highly subjective right? That in itself is an opinion and personal preference . Like I said, there's no right or wrong in that.

You can judge OST by how it complements what's going on the screen or by how great it is to your ears. Sorry, but either way soundtrack that complements action well enough shouldn't be called bad. I might understand the comment like 'I can finally hear the music, lol,' but not dropping bricks on the soundtrack because it's so integrated into the animation you can't hear it.

[TwilightsCall]

Eh, what applies to guns also applies to traditional weapons though. Anyone can use it as long as they train and practice. But, like in any other aspects of life, there are individuals who are gifted with the weapons more than everybody else. Chu can handle spear better than most people is just like Ethan Hunt or Jason Borne that can aim their guns better and shoot faster than most people with the same weapons (I use fictional characters as examples coz F/SN also use fictional characters).

The main difference is how they are regarded by the general population though. The idea is that in the past, when someone was a Hero, like King Arthur, they were thought to be super, beyond human existences that couldn't be reached by a normal person - they had magic, or were blessed by the gods, or some other equally significant thing changed them from being human into something more.

In contrast, when we think of people who are "heroes" nowadays, like in your example Ethan Hunt or Jason Bourne, people don't look at them as "super-human existences." They are seen as people who trained all their lives, and with the right mix of natural talent and hard work, accomplished what they have via their own, human means. Because they are looked at as "incredibly skilled individuals" instead of "super-human individuals," they aren't afforded the same kind of "worship" past heroes were, and so don't qualify to be sent to the Throne of Heroes.

Fundamentally, I don't see anything preventing future heroes from coming into being, but there needs to be that added layer of mystique returned, something that makes them be regarded as above human. So actually, something like a Jedi is probably fairly close to being applicable for the category.

Spoiler for Angel Notes:

Though sorry, Humans die out before Jedis can ever be a thing in the Nasuverse

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by R.LocK

You can judge OST by how it complements what's going on the screen or by how great it is to your ears.

And you think your oh-so-good judgment and personal standard can invalidate how others feel?

LOL nuff said.