F/SN UBW TV - Episode 6 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[magnuskn]

As far as the sub goes, there was no physical evidence of her being mistreated. Hence, no, it shouldn't have happened.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Polarpew

interesting, when Archer gave his spiel in the beginning about how Heroic Spirits are 'cleaners' I think he messed up the definition with Counter Guardians, director of this show prolly did this on purpose to spoon feed us spoilers, not to mention the hint that the Grail was a malevolent wish granting device

Not exactly. Heroic Spirits are generally the same thing. The main difference is that Heroic Spirits are summoned by people and Counter Guardians are dispatched by the planet itself. In general though they both tend to be used to clean up messes the humans themselves caused. Archer is not incorrect about this.

[Levani]

I hope Shinji gets killed in this route -_-

[Nayrael]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

As far as the sub goes, there was no physical evidence of her being mistreated. Hence, no, it shouldn't have happened.

If there was evidence that she was raped, it is likely that only parents, authorities and teachers would know about it and they would not say it to others. For many, getting raped is not something you want others to know.
If you meant bruises and such, they would not appear because she would have no energy to resist because Rider sucked her dry.

[Kanon]

It had never really occurred to me until now that Ayako got raped. Mostly because I didn't fully know about Shinji's true nature back when I read the VN. She did not actually get raped though. F/HA and the Fate/side material confirmed it was all Rider.

[Raviel]

Originally Posted by Levani

I hope Shinji gets killed in this route -_-

Well.....about that........uh, Shirou and Rin will end up disappointing you very much then

[Levani]

Originally Posted by Raviel

Well.....about that........uh, Shirou and Rin will end up disappointing you very much then

;_: There's always Heaven's Feel then, he can get killed there?

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Levani

;_: There's always Heaven's Feel then, he can get killed there?

If you really want to know:

Spoiler for Heaven's Feel:

He will get killed there.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Nayrael

If there was evidence that she was raped, it is likely that only parents, authorities and teachers would know about it and they would not say it to others. For many, getting raped is not something you want others to know.
If you meant bruises and such, they would not appear because she would have no energy to resist because Rider sucked her dry.

Well, if you prefer speculation over the hard facts as laid out in narration, be my guest.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Not exactly. Heroic Spirits are generally the same thing. The main difference is that Heroic Spirits are summoned by people and Counter Guardians are dispatched by the planet itself. In general though they both tend to be used to clean up messes the humans themselves caused. Archer is not incorrect about this.

Uh, no. Counter Guardian is a variant of Heroic Spirits.

From what I remember, people who became object of worship with their own power become HS, while those that signed a contract with the world//Alaya become CG.

Cleaning up messes is Counter Guardian's job. HS generally just stay in the Throne of Heroes.

[Nayrael]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, if you prefer speculation over the hard facts as laid out in narration, be my guest.

If hard facts were laid out in narration, we would not have this discussion :P
Either way, I am not saying she was or wasn't raped, just pointing out that the facts in narration (you did not even mention) did not confirm anything (outside materials gave the answer).

[magnuskn]

Yes, the narration of Fuji-Nee was pretty clear that no evidence of physical abuse was found. You are interpreting things about social norms into that which are pure speculation.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Jerseykid

I thought the female servant in the woods from the other episode was assassin but now it's a guy

That was Rider.

[Ernietheracefan]

I thought Ayako was sucked by Rider in the same manner as Kuro did to Miyu..

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Aside from the typical Japanese fixation on bittersweet endings, I wouldn't know why.

Because "End of dream" doesn't exist in Good End. Therefore all Saber character developments are lost. In UBW, she realizes her own mistakes just like in Fate. And she decides to have a final rest. Saber made it clear in all routes that she would not stay in modern era after the HGW is over.

However, the main point is that UBW is NOT about Saber. It is about Archer and Shirou. The ending has to solve their problem, not Saber's problem. Not a coincidence that True End has the word "True" to it. Good End is just a fan-pandering meaningless ending. Even DEEN got this right.

Good End is fan-pandering, so you may like it more. However, it fails as the ending of UBW route. "The most brilliant story in the world can be brought down by lack of any useful ending. The story offers no answers, no conclusions." Ufotable, who are making a serious adaption, would pick True End in their sane state of mind. And everyone who is hoping for a serious adaption would be terribly disappointed if Ufo ruined the anime with Good End.

If you want to disprove my points, could you tell me any meaning that Good End has?

[Verrueckter]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Because "End of dream" doesn't exist in Good End. Therefore all Saber character developments are lost. In UBW, she realizes her own mistakes just like in Fate. And she decides to have a final rest. Saber made it clear in all routes that she would not stay in modern era after the HGW is over.

However, the main point is that UBW is NOT about Saber. It is about Archer and Shirou. The ending has to solve their problem, not Saber's problem. Not a coincidence that True End has the word "True" to it. Good End is just a fan-pandering meaningless ending. Even DEEN got this right.

Good End is fan-pandering, so you may like it more. However, it fails as the ending of UBW route. "The most brilliant story in the world can be brought down by lack of any useful ending. The story offers no answers, no conclusions." Ufotable, who are making a serious adaption, would pick True End in their sane state of mind. And everyone who is hoping for a serious adaption would be terribly disappointed if Ufo ruined the anime with Good End.

If you want to disprove my points, could you tell me any meaning that Good End has?

I get that you're passionate about disliking the Good End, but there's nothing to disprove. Things like this are a matter of taste, if I like something there doesn't need to be an infallible logic or reasoning behind why I like it, I simply like it. I like it because it matches my tastes, you are implying that one would have to be an idiot or insane to prefer the Good End, which is quite insulting. Anime and Visual Novels are entertainment, what entertains me and how I choose to be entertained is up to me, nobody gets to tell me that I am "incorrect" it the way I enjoy entertainment.

If you don't like something, simply state that you don't like it, there is no need to use insults to people who do not share your like or dislike.

The reason I like Good End is because I like the idea of Rin, Shirou, and Saber living quietly in Fuyuki. It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside, and that appeals to me. Appealing to my emotions is all I need from any medium for me to like it. In the end this is just entertainment, all I need is to be entertained.

[HtwoN]

It's ok for you to prefer Good End. I said clearly that Good End is a fan-service ending. So it is natural for some people to like it.

Sorry but I don't argue with you about personal taste. And I don't care about what you like. My point is that Good End fails as a closure for UBW. So it cannot be an ending for the anime. And I proved my points with reasons.

Personal preference shouldn't be put above reason.

Btw, I apologize if you feel offended by my words.

[Verrueckter]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

It's ok for you to prefer Good End.

Sorry but I don't argue with you about personal taste. And I don't care about what you like. My point is that Good End fails as a closure for UBW. So it cannot be an ending for the anime. And I proved my points with reasons.

Personal preference shouldn't be put above reason.

Btw, I apologize if you feel offended by my words.

There is no reasoning in your post, only bias. Which I guess comes from your personal preference. If you feel Good End is a failure fine by me, but you are trying to force your bias on others by using reasoning, which is pointless because these things are intangible.

I am not trying to argue against your point of view, I am simply saying that you are being rude by trying to force your point of view on others. That is all.

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by Verrueckter

There is no reasoning in your post, only bias. Which I guess comes from your personal preference. If you feel Good End is a failure fine by me, but you are trying to force your bias on others by using reasoning, which is pointless because these things are intangible.

Oh ok. True End has the proper closures for all 4 main characters:

- Saber reaches the conclusion for her own problem. She decides to take her rest. (End of Dream part belongs to True End)

- Archer reminiscence about the HGW. His most heart-breaking line: "But I was not wrong".

- Shirou's memories about his clash with Archer. And he once again affirms his ideal.

- Rin keeping her promise with Archer that she will help Shirou love himself.

Now tell me what Good End has in return?

Please don't tell me all things I listed above are my bias.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Verrueckter

There is no reasoning in your post, only bias. Which I guess comes from your personal preference. If you feel Good End is a failure fine by me, but you are trying to force your bias on others by using reasoning, which is pointless because these things are intangible.

I am not trying to argue against your point of view, I am simply saying that you are being rude by trying to force your point of view on others. That is all.

The "epilogue" of the good ending was disappointing though, so the good ending would not work by itself. It would at least need to be merged with the true ending to be even worthy of consideration as an ending.