Also Othinus situation: a Magic God which inspired the myths of Odin. Is there a God Odin separate from Othinus?
Reminds me of American Gods, in which there were two incarnations of Odin, with one of them created by the belief of the original settlers of Iceland, and therefore much closer to the Odin of mythology.
"He was me, yes. But I am not him."
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So the members of the real GREMLIN we saw in the end may be True Gods and not just Magic Gods like Othinus? Or maybe, they are True Magic Gods who are themselves the old Gods?
But I don't think Magic God Othinus and the Norse God Odin are a different person. When I read the LN, I got the impression she is the same God: Odin of ancient times.
They call themselves Magic Gods and they were talking to each other so no reason to lie unless Kamachi is feeling rather dickish.
Othinus is not a god, she's a Magic God who lived a long time ago and apparently inspired the myths of Odin. That's why I wonder: Othinus explicitely mentions Asgard as one of the Phases that serve as homes for the gods. If we assume that each pantheon keeps to their homes it's obvious that in Asgard we would find the norse pantheon. Does this norse pantheon include Odin? Or does being based on an actual person prevents a god Odin from existing like regular gods do? Does this situation also apply to the gods which share a name with the Magic Gods from Gremlin? We know that one of them is called Nephthys so it's probable they have inspired mythology like Othinus did.
I just want to know what happened to the God of Bible on this series. Is he dead also like the one from DxD after being a boss?
Or is he/she/it among humans like Ridovia hinted?
If there is no God to take down, Aleister can't do anything against him so he had to turn against the system and prepare a long ass plan .
EDIT:
If I were to bet on something I would say God is always watching/observing Touma
I'm curious about that too. Especially when you take into account things like the Archangels being summoned and the distortion that allowed angels to be brought down. We still don't know what caused that distortion and how it went unnoticed for so long.
I get the feeling that Othinus is likely going to explain a lot of these sort of questions over the next arc or so. In fact as a plot device, I think that's why she with Touma, so someone can explain the finer details of Magic Gods and there connections with the religions that there connect with.
Othinus is not a god, she's a Magic God who lived a long time ago and apparently inspired the myths of Odin. That's why I wonder: Othinus explicitely mentions Asgard as one of the Phases that serve as homes for the gods. If we assume that each pantheon keeps to their homes it's obvious that in Asgard we would find the norse pantheon.
I was under the impression Phases simply allowed the various afterlives to exist, not necessarily their pantheons. The state of life after death is one of the main components of religions after all.
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I was under the impression Phases simply allowed the various afterlives to exist, not necessarily their pantheons. The state of life after death is one of the main components of religions after all.
Spoiler for Phases:
“This world was not pure and untouched to begin with. Christian, Buddhist, Celtic, Indian, Shinto, Incan, Aztec, Greek, Roman…and Norse. The various religions have placed layer after layer of various phases over the world like thin veils or filters. There is heaven, hell, the underworld, the Pure Land, Yomi, the abyss, Mount Olympus, the fairy island, Nirai Kanai, Asgard, and many others. At any rate, the world you have seen so far has been viewed through various colors of cellophane.”
Spoiler for Othinus talks about how Dainsleif works:
(First, she seals off a limited portion of the world and then she chooses particular phases of different religions or sects and cuts through them.)
The giant that appeared first was one of the Titans that appeared as Zeus’s enemy in Greek mythology.
The beast that appeared second was the man-eating beast and god of death that destroyed the first humanity in Aztec mythology.
The demon king that appeared third was the leader of the giants that were said to burn away the nine worlds in Norse mythology.
(Heaven, Asgard, Mt. Olympus, the Pure Land, Nirai Kanai… Cutting away the homes of the gods removes the protection and blessings of those gods and thus releases the calamities being restrained by the gods. In a way, Marian is able to freely choose and wield the different “endings” told of in the world’s scriptures.)
I'm referring to this particular line which calls those places which had been identified by her as Phases of the world as homes of the gods. So I assume that's where all the gods are, in their own phases separated from the normal world. Just like Angels like Gabriel are in Heaven (guess God would be there too) I guess the norse gods would be on Asgard.
The Phases mentioned in the novel include Mount Olympus, Asgard and Takama-ga-hara which serve more as the realms of the gods in their mythologies than afterlives (though you could argue that Asgard should partially count since it's where Valhalla is located and thus where the einherjar are). Note how when she explains Dainsleif she doesn't mention the Underworld, Yomi or Hell as homes of the gods despite those also being Phases.
I'm curious about that too. Especially when you take into account things like the Archangels being summoned and the distortion that allowed angels to be brought down. We still don't know what caused that distortion and how it went unnoticed for so long.
My guess on that is that without God (who is the core Christianism) on Heaven, the distortion naturally happened aka Heaven is missing its main piece thus leading me to think God is somewhere else. On the Earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Spirit
I get the feeling that Othinus is likely going to explain a lot of these sort of questions over the next arc or so. In fact as a plot device, I think that's why she with Touma, so someone can explain the finer details of Magic Gods and there connections with the religions that there connect with.
If she didn't know sh*t about the GREMLIN's plane I doubt she would have a hint about that.
Derp derp, I kinda forgot those that never were afterlives
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This is easily disproven by the Aztec cabal Return of the Winged One and the numerous Norse cabals, whose religions technically ceased to be practiced centuries ago*, yet their practitioners aren't long lived. I'm...actually quite confused how you even reached this conclusion...?
*This is not exactly right: mythologies have been revived somewhat in modern times as neo pagan movements (Ásatrú/Odinism/Theodism/Vanatru/Forn Sed/etc for Norse, Kemeticism for Ancient Egypt). Kinda makes an alternate point for me though.
What, just...what?
I thought what I said was pretty clear... Sekhmet was the Egyptian God... not just any Sekhmet... but the old one... that existed during one of the earlier Dynasties. Bastet was another god from the same time period that the local people believed in. Index emphasizes that these people survive for a long time. If this girl were actually Bastet and not just some priestess then she would have been living a long time. I originally thought that she was Bastet and not just someone borrowing from the legend or myth. Othinus was actually Odin after all--this was implied by Kamachi in NT 10. It wasn't that large of a conclusion to draw IMO... even if it is wrong. This is because I thought the other person from the book of the dead was actually Sekhmet... not a priestess of Sekhmet...
In all honesty, there is something that I'm very confused about that I would like possibly clarified: Are these "gods" originally powerful magicians that are just ordinary people and have legends derived about them. Then other magicians draw on these aspects and hone their own powers and personifications based on their interpretation of these powerful magicians' magical powers. And Leep and "Sekhmet" were two such normal magicians?
Or are these "gods" not people but something else entirely... that may/may not have started as people... (using the onion-shell theory of evolution) that have mythologies created about them... and Magicians are borrowing powers from the phases created by these powerful beings? And these Majins or pure beings are existing somewhere...?
Or is it instead that a mix of these two theories is true? I'm a loss right now as to what you guys actually think is the truth regarding these theories...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpIDa
It is a possibility. But I don't completely agree though. I don't think Ollerus was a Magic God then was usurped from his position. I think, like how the LN presented it, he was supposed to become a Magic God too. In the LN, we first were told that both Ollerus and Othinus were the two possibilities for that one place and Othinus won it. But later we learn that Othinus has lived for centuries of years. This leads me to think that Othinus got her chance many years ago when she was just a human, and so she became a Magic God. And this time, and after Othinus lost (part of) her powers, it was Ollerus's chance, but Othinus stole it from him.
I think it's maybe the same with the Egyptian side, though this time we have two (or more) Egyptian Magic Gods, meaning the two of them succeeded and got their respective chances. But I don't agree that there can only be one Pure/Perfect Majin. because I personally think Othinus wasn't even a Perfect Majin in the first place as she couldn't even find/influence the dimension where the other Perfect Majins were hiding (& those other Majins called her a failure too). So the number of True/Perfect Majins in each religion is not 1, it's not constant, it just depends on the capabilities of the Magic Gods (before they reach the Perfect state) themselves and whether they are able to achieve that state or not. What proves this is that there are at least 2 True Majins in the Egyptian side: Nephtis & the highest mummy priest (if he ever was confirmed to be from the Egyptian side) as both of them clearly could find the dimension of the Majins and they could move there easily.
I feel like I always misunderstood that to some degree, but I feel like answering my question above can shed some insight into that...
On another note, I clarified before that I thought that only one Majin would exist per religion because in the NT 10 epilogue Gremlin said that it provided a space for the Magic God of every Religion to join in. Perhaps it wasn't specified whether or not Magic God should have been pluralized there... I also thought that because I figured that it'd be unusual for these Majins to let someone else become a Majin in the same religion unless they couldn't interfere with the normal world...
I thought what I said was pretty clear... Sekhmet was the Egyptian God... not just any Sekhmet... but the old one... that existed during one of the earlier Dynasties.
...
Did you misread, maybe? Rather, gonna need some quotes to support that.
Quote:
Bastet was another god from the same time period that the local people believed in.
See above.
Quote:
Index emphasizes that these people survive for a long time.
Quote?
Quote:
It wasn't that large of a conclusion to draw IMO...
I actually believe so.
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If Jesus and Buddha are still alive, I hope they are as cool as these two.
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wait..
...wasn't this story about a priestess of bastet looking for some "diagrams" ?
and i pretty sure that this " Sekhmet" was a high class priestess(supposition)...that went under a specific path/mummification/plot...
Quote:
“If you were, you couldn’t have tried to use a cat to steal information in your original plan. That is why you must be Bastet, goddess of fertility and production. You are a priestess of the cat goddess, not the lion goddess.”
Quote:
The Priestess of Bastet practically gasped out the words while lying on the ground.
Quote:
“ ‘I was truly happy when you created a path to Bastet instead of Sekhmet
if this girl was actually "god"......i am sure that she(bastet) can find a better way to look for the deads...anubis/osiris....
A priestess named Leep used Egyptian magic based on the cat goddess Bast, just like Thor used Thor's magic and Freyja used magic based on stories of Freyja. Kamachi wouldn't throw in any characters important to the plot so earlier in an SS. He only does that with side characters we may or may not realize we should care about.
A priestess named Leep used Egyptian magic based on the cat goddess Bast, just like Thor used Thor's magic and Freyja used magic based on stories of Freyja. Kamachi wouldn't throw in any characters important to the plot so earlier in an SS. He only does that with side characters we may or may not realize we should care about.
I agree that Leep is just a priestess who uses Bastet's magic and she is not a Magic God herself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyHunter
Spoiler for Phases:
“This world was not pure and untouched to begin with. Christian, Buddhist, Celtic, Indian, Shinto, Incan, Aztec, Greek, Roman…and Norse. The various religions have placed layer after layer of various phases over the world like thin veils or filters. There is heaven, hell, the underworld, the Pure Land, Yomi, the abyss, Mount Olympus, the fairy island, Nirai Kanai, Asgard, and many others. At any rate, the world you have seen so far has been viewed through various colors of cellophane.”
Spoiler for Othinus talks about how Dainsleif works:
(First, she seals off a limited portion of the world and then she chooses particular phases of different religions or sects and cuts through them.)
The giant that appeared first was one of the Titans that appeared as Zeus’s enemy in Greek mythology.
The beast that appeared second was the man-eating beast and god of death that destroyed the first humanity in Aztec mythology.
The demon king that appeared third was the leader of the giants that were said to burn away the nine worlds in Norse mythology.
(Heaven, Asgard, Mt. Olympus, the Pure Land, Nirai Kanai… Cutting away the homes of the gods removes the protection and blessings of those gods and thus releases the calamities being restrained by the gods. In a way, Marian is able to freely choose and wield the different “endings” told of in the world’s scriptures.)
I'm referring to this particular line which calls those places which had been identified by her as Phases of the world as homes of the gods. So I assume that's where all the gods are, in their own phases separated from the normal world. Just like Angels like Gabriel are in Heaven (guess God would be there too) I guess the norse gods would be on Asgard.
The Phases mentioned in the novel include Mount Olympus, Asgard and Takama-ga-hara which serve more as the realms of the gods in their mythologies than afterlives (though you could argue that Asgard should partially count since it's where Valhalla is located and thus where the einherjar are). Note how when she explains Dainsleif she doesn't mention the Underworld, Yomi or Hell as homes of the gods despite those also being Phases.
I think both gods AND magicians who follow their paths exist.
What Othinus said proves that the Gods exist. But what was said about her too made me think that it may not apply to Odin/Othinus. Because she herself inspired the myths of Odin.
But you're right, that way there won't be an afterlife for the Norse side, and the Valhalla wouldn't exist.
So my theory is that there are Gods, True Magic Gods, Magic Gods (who can become Perfect if they meet certain conditions) and magicians.
My guess is that:
1/ Magicians are people who use a magic based on a certain God/belief from the myths.
2/ Magic Gods are magicians who became Magic Gods, they later intended to be True Magic Gods but they failed & turned out to just Perfect Magic God (the only example we have for now is Othinus)
3/ True Magic Gods are magicians who became Magic Gods and succeeded later to acquire the status of True Magic Gods.
4/ Gods are just deities that were inspired by those Magic Gods. They originally didn't exist, but the common belief brought them to existence. They don't have a physical existence (exist only in human's minds), and thus phases were created after the accumulation of many beliefs through out history, So the Gods don't really exist in those phases, unless someone tries to materialize them. So if Maria had the power to invoke "the real" Odin or Zeus or any other god, they would be similar to the appearance they acquired in the myths and different beings from the Magic Gods they were inspired from.
Notes:
*/ You may ask then if only Othinus is the Magic God of Norse myths, where did the myths about Thor, Loki and the others come from? My guess is that there existed long ago other Magic Gods that disappeared for some reason.
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Ah I didn't know there were already appellations for the different kinds of Magic Gods haha So I called them myself with what I thought would be an appropriate name
Well, now I edited and corrected my previous reply
Thanks for the correction
Only Impure Magic God is an official term, the rest of your post was quite good. If you want, maybe add the candidates, which includes poor Sigyn everyone forgot about.
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Only Impure Magic God is an official term, the rest of your post was quite good. If you want, maybe add the candidates, which includes poor Sigyn everyone forgot about.
I see, and thanks But I will leave it like that (too lazy to search for the names of every single candidate that appeared in the series )
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So I called them myself with what I thought would be an appropriate name 
But I will leave it like that (too lazy to search for the names of every single candidate that appeared in the series 
