2012-08-07, 22:23 | Link #41 | ||
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On the other hand... Quote:
Frightening thought, no?
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2012-08-07, 22:38 | Link #42 | |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I mean, really, prosecutors in the US couldn't even charge people for blatant cases of cyber-bullying at first until the legislature caught up, and people think there would be no issue when trying to charge people for murder for PK in a MMO? |
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2012-08-07, 22:45 | Link #43 |
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There are several problems with prosecuting the PKers. The first one would be that there can only be one murder of the same person, so you can't both prosecute the PKer and the guy that set up SOA in the first place. If you chose to prosecute the PKer then you will set the precedent where the blame lies for the deaths and the one who set it all up would go free. It would also mean that anyone who caused the death of someone in SOA by accident or failure to act would be guilty of causing someones death, wich while not as severe as murder would still be a crime. Reckless endangerment etc.
The other is that there are no physical evidence of any kind. There may be some who saw some of the PK happen, but then we get word against word. I would think only a very low number of actualy cases would be clear cut with having multiple witnesses. |
2012-08-07, 22:47 | Link #44 | |
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Well, fair enough -- whether charges are actually pressed or not is not clear. I agree that the lack of precedent makes this especially tricky. By the same token, if the aforementioned logs became available, I assume the families would be demanding justice. It's unclear whether punishing the person who fabricated the whole scenario is enough to say that justice has been served... but expecting everyone else to understand all the subtleties of went on would be a big challenge and could take years to orchestrate. (Then again, I imagine that some who get out of this mess may have some motivation to pursue that path...)
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2012-08-07, 22:52 | Link #46 | |
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And, you know, I'm not sure how much of a stomach people will have for going after PKers once they get out of the game. I imagine a lot of the people who clear SAO and get back into the real world are going to want to forget about SAO forever. The more infamous PKers I think could be in trouble due to multiple eye-witnesses and enraged family members of the victims. But aside from them...
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-08-07 at 23:28. |
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2012-08-07, 23:02 | Link #47 |
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The answer to this would obviously be a spoiler so can't be answered here. But I would like to point out that this type of considerations are the main idea behind the novels. The actualy effect on people from the virtual reality: psychological, legal, social etc. So it's not like this discussion is somehow derailed from the main idea of the story, far from it.
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2012-08-07, 23:09 | Link #48 | ||
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Now again, that's sort of notwithstanding whether anyone actually would pursue charges or not. I'm just thinking about whether there would be grounds to do so. Quote:
(And I don't think this topic is "derailing" the conversation, only that it goes beyond the scope of an episode thread, hence makes more sense in its own thread.)
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2012-08-08, 00:40 | Link #49 |
→ Wandering Bard
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That's quite frightening. It would certainly embolden the moral guardians after a long march towards more Video Game access. If I think some parents were already strict about access to technology in today's society, I am much more frightened at the aftermath/attitudes towards digital technology in certain cultures and groups.
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2012-08-08, 01:31 | Link #50 |
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As the instigator of this thread, I find the answers somewhat dissatisfactory. Likely the compounding of a game world with RL consequences muddles the waters, so let's look at a hypothetical situation.
If Kayaba had locked up 100 people in a large cavern with enough food, water and facilities to survive, and some unclear objective that was required to reach in order to be released. Each has a couple of devices around their neck and affixed to their right hand, the former kills them if they fail some task on the way to clearing the objective, or just at random if they don't do anything, and the latter is a gun of some sort. They cannot remove either without losing their heads. Now it is obvious that Kayaba would be criminally responsible for every single death no matter what, however what would happen if someone started using the gun to shoot other people? An insanity plea could be used in most modern democracies as a valid defence, however it isn't normally enough to just say the stress of imminent death got too much to handle. What one looks for is a real loss of understanding of what is real and not, not merely acting upon frustration and rage.
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2012-08-08, 01:34 | Link #51 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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You know, I think the problem here is that laws aren't really built to deal with cartoon super-villainy. |
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2012-08-08, 02:51 | Link #55 | |
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Basically my example is a more complex version of the many prolonged hostage situations that have happened through history. One hostage killing another on their own volition is a case they're quite capable of handling. In Norway, it goes so far that even if someone threatens you with death unless you kill another person, you're still going to be convicted for murder if you had more than half a minute or so to think it through.
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2012-08-08, 04:29 | Link #56 | |
18782+18782=37564
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I locked a bomb into you, knowing full well that it can (and probably will) kill you, even if it depends solely on your action. How am I not responsible if you really turned up dead? "Ohh, how stupid. I told him not to do that. Now look at the mess he left behind!" Edit: btw to be clear, that's in the context of Rakshasha's latest example. As for what happened in SAO...I'd say PKers are responsible of the deaths of those they murder, and not necessarily Kayaba. Though I see how it would be difficult to impossible in bringing them to justice. Unless there is a physical evidence like a data in the servers recording the players or event logs.
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Last edited by erneiz_hyde; 2012-08-08 at 04:55. |
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2012-08-08, 05:51 | Link #57 | |
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But then its not like he told to go out and start killing.
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2012-08-08, 06:22 | Link #58 | |
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PK typically takes two forms, based on my experience with MMOs. Either consensual (dueling) or non-consensual. In the former case, you have to actively seek out an opponent. This can either be any location or specified locations (arenas). Non-consensual usually involves "flagging up" or actively switching to a mode that allows you to attack (and be attacked by) other players. Both are obviously premeditated....
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2012-08-08, 06:26 | Link #59 | ||||
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I understand what you're saying, and I think the heavy weight of all those kids trapped in coma's would be kept present in people's minds... but comparing the future of a nation and all it's inhabitants to 10,000 kids stuck in a death game... is a tad bit off. Quote:
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This thread needs a lawyer to grace us with a few seconds of his time Or for someone to dig out the archives and distill the old conversation about the legal side from wherever it was before. |
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2012-08-08, 06:45 | Link #60 | ||
18782+18782=37564
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How would our head look like if our brain's fried off with microwave? Would our brain matter ooze out of every crevice? or would it outright explode? I really don't know since I've never seen it happening before me. And what's the chance of a freelance journalist managing to capture those images? Quote:
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Last edited by erneiz_hyde; 2012-08-08 at 06:55. |
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