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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 21 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 33 | 52.38% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 19 | 30.16% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 4 | 6.35% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 4 | 6.35% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 2 | 3.17% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 1.59% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-12-03, 21:04 | Link #44 | |||||
Cross Game - I need more
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 44
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I'm getting Eva vibes from this show, starting with episode 20. Ever since last episode this has moved beyond "storytelling" into "legend" territory. This show is trying to same something meaningful. Whether it will succeed or not remains to be seen. Considering the obvious references to Aum in Penguin Drum, and now these Eva tendancies, I found these quotes interesting: Quote:
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Penguin Drum is one. Madoka is another. One thing for sure, if I'm getting Eva vibes, then bad stuff is going to happen to the characters.
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2011-12-03, 23:07 | Link #45 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
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I could see a Madoka style ending where someone (Shouma or Himari most likely) uses the diary to fix everything but ends up going off wherever Momoka is. Except it'd be several orders of magnitude more esoteric and require elaborate charts and frame-by-frame analyses to understand.
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2011-12-03, 23:23 | Link #46 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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I still think a "no magic" ending is most likely. Maybe it's because of Utena that I think this way. You know, Spoiler for utena:
All that considering, I wouldn't be surprised if the diary doesn't' even do what people (both the characters and the audience) think it does .
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2011-12-03, 23:43 | Link #47 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I am kind of conflicted with the idea of Himari dying. On one hand I think having the brothers have to accept her death would be very fitting (and fit with Night on the Galactic Railroad) but on the other hand I am wondering if there is something to do that ending with Triple H. Is that an alternate fate where Himari does not die after all?
I still think someone won't make it in the end though.
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2011-12-04, 03:53 | Link #48 |
Senior Member
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I have a bit of a hard time seeing Kanba and Shouma patching things up if Himari dies soon, and doesn't get resuscitated this time It's mainly for this reason that I wouldn't be surprised if Himari survives the entire anime (what Kirarakim wrote about Triple-H being another reason why).
However, I agree with Kirarakim on somebody not surviving the entire anime. This anime hints a lot at the concept of equivalent trade-offs, of positive outcomes having to be balanced out by negative outcomes (consider how Momoka's Diary worked for her, as well as the fact that keeping Himari alive consistently comes at a high price). With this in mind, I have to really think that either Himari dies, or somebody takes her place.
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2011-12-04, 11:16 | Link #49 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
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2011-12-04, 13:00 | Link #50 | |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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If the issue is forgiveness, I would ask this: is there ever a situation where a child shouldn't forgive their parents (or family members) for what they've done, or is the message that family trumps all else? If Hitler had a child, should that child forgive Hitler for the holocaust? If parents sexually abuse a child and then sell them into prostitution, should they be forgiven? I don't disagree that Shouma needs to come to terms with who he is, or even that his doing so is probably the critical element of the last arc. I just don't know if forgiving his family and embracing his status as a Takakura is really the answer, and given what their parents and even Kanba (who's been confirmed as a murderer, assuming the last episode actually happened) have done, I'm not sure they deserve his forgiveness. Perhaps what needs to happen is for him to accept that he's connected to these people, but not limited by that connection - that he has the power to transcend that and become a worthwhile person not because of but in spite of those connections. My big worry at this point is the "deux ex Momoka" ending. There's been very little talk of Momoka and the diary lately, and I don't want that to be the magic bullet that wraps everything up in the end, as a means of justifying the entire first cour.
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2011-12-04, 14:39 | Link #51 |
Cross Game - I need more
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 44
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Well... Jesus said that we must forgive all people. And he never gave any exceptions. So there is a significant moral code that demands forgiveness regardless of what someone else has done.
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2011-12-04, 15:18 | Link #52 |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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OTOH, some modern philosophers take the view that forgiving without requiring others to change is self-destructive, and perpetuates a dysfunctional relationship by continually rewarding immoral behavior.
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2011-12-04, 15:36 | Link #53 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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So I disagree. Shouma needs to forgive. His parents did wrong, but they are still his parents. He can't move on until he makes peace with that part of himself. It's not about transcending the past, but rather about accepting it and building upon it.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-12-04 at 15:50. |
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2011-12-04, 15:42 | Link #54 | ||
Banned
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In short we kind of need to start keeping each other in check a little bit again without worrying so much about political correctness, but also without being outright discriminatory and antagonistic towards one another. It's a delicate balance between being somewhat selfish without outright just becoming a completely dysfunctional member of society. Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2011-12-04 at 16:20. |
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2011-12-04, 16:00 | Link #55 | |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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If anything - and maybe this is picking at semantics a bit - I think what Shouma needs to do is forgive himself. Right now he hates himself because he's his parents son, and that's misguided. I don't think it's a matter of forgiving his parents for murdering hundreds of people - I think it's a matter of forgiving himself for being born, and realizing that he's the who determines what kind of man he'll be and what his worth is - not the name on his birth certificate.
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2011-12-04, 16:14 | Link #56 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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But Kanba is a terrorist, just like Shouma's parents. If Shouma doesn't find it in him to forgive them, how can he save Kanba and reclaim his family?
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2011-12-04, 17:15 | Link #57 | |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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2011-12-04, 18:00 | Link #58 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Spoiler for Ikuhara's thoughts on family:
Also I wouldn't say if the diary is used it is a deus ex machina. I mean for one thing it has been introduced and we already know it can transfer fates. It also does come with a cost, so it's not like it is an easy solution. That being said I would kind of be surprised if everything is solved with a "magical solution" but we'll see. And not to mention I don't think Ikuhara is going to want to do something predictable. That is definitely not his style. He does like to fool the audience.
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2011-12-07, 09:54 | Link #60 |
Guns Galore!
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I think this is one of few times in my life I had to rewatch it again.
The music was spectacular. I don't often listen to the pieces played but the amplification to the himari flashback > kanba restaurant was just tear jerking along with the other songs such as the kanba vs sho fight and himari farewell. There was too many relevations and suprises within this episode. How Masako and Kanba are siblings, and that after the ending we know that their true dad is actually dead. Looking back at past episodes and the letters Masako reads, about how her father cannot come back to the house, I found it shocking he was actually dead. Also the Tarakura's are actually dead was also pretty significant. Was wondering why the restaurant went from pretty nice to a dumphole when Himari entered. I don't post often but this felt like the best episode to date.
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Last edited by Jin Kizuite; 2011-12-07 at 22:19. |
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