Monogatari Series Second Season - Episode 23 [END] Discussion / Poll (Hitagi End VI)

[Ragna92]

Kaiki! The best character had to die... screw that bitch Ougi.

Overall great series. 9/10 because of the final arc.

[Dop]

Completely shocked by the ending, I was not expecting that. Wow. Roll on the next series!

[AmeNoJaku]

The last scene salvaged the episode for me. The resolution of Nadeko's story was somewhat silly. But how Kaiki ended his relationship with Hitagi and the attempt on his life were excellent pieces of storytelling. The last one was also filmed flawlessly. But overall the arc was overstretched, despite handling three characters. Hitagi got zero development, only some background. Nadeko more or less suffered the same treatment. Basically this arc was salvaged by Kaiki.

I'd rather skipped this arc in favor of Hanamonogatari/Suruga Devil, or better plan realistically next time, though hoping this of Shaft is... hopeless.

[FlavoryFantasy]

I didn't expect those mangas to be in Nadeko's closet, her reaction was hilarious.

That ending though, cruel cliffhanger. I had taken such a liking to Kaiki too. ;__;

[Monoriu]

An excellent episode that concludes an excellent story. Now I really dislike Nadeko. She is not just crazy, but also very cruel. Repeatedly kicked someone who is constrained, defenceless and can't fight back.

[silvercover]

Originally Posted by Monoriu

An excellent episode that concludes an excellent story. Now I really dislike Nadeko. She is not just crazy, but also very cruel. Repeatedly kicked someone who is constrained, defenceless and can't fight back.

lol.
its funny that this is the point where your hating nadeko now, instead of before this.

[ndqanh_vn]

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

The last scene salvaged the episode for me. The resolution of Nadeko's story was somewhat silly. But how Kaiki ended his relationship with Hitagi and the attempt on his life were excellent pieces of storytelling. The last one was also filmed flawlessly. But overall the arc was overstretched, despite handling three characters. Hitagi got zero development, only some background. Nadeko more or less suffered the same treatment. Basically this arc was salvaged by Kaiki.

I'd rather skipped this arc in favor of Hanamonogatari/Suruga Devil, or better plan realistically next time, though hoping this of Shaft is... hopeless.

My thought exactly. Even though it's obviously that I am a big fan of Kaiki, this arc is stretched too much. The past two episodes could be combined into one.

I think in case of Hitagi and Nadeko, it's not so much as "development" as "revelation". Unexpected part about their personality is revealed, for example, Hitagi's lingering affection and understanding of Kaiki's true nature, or Nadeko's self-inserted manga.

To think about it, that shocking ending is to be expected if you see it as a hard-boiled detective story...

[Syan48306]

Originally Posted by omimon

Spoiler for Might be NSFW:

Notice the lines that should be her thighs.

Nadeko confirmed to not wearing panties. In other words Kaiki got a face full of fourteen year old god pussy.

Blu-rays - They zoom out a bit and we see everything.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw this. At least Kaiki got a glimpse of something good before he got taken out.

[psycho bolt]

always knew that Ougi was up to something, since her last appearance way back....

[omimon]

Originally Posted by psycho bolt

always knew that Ougi was up to something, since her last appearance way back....

It's probably the soulless eyes. She's still my goddess of darkness though.

[justsomeguy]

WTF?! Ending a show with an actual interesting character getting "killed"?! And Araragi and Senjougahara not getting any scenes together the whole arc (or the whole show, for that matter), and Ougi still running around doing who knows what evil stuff. This whole thing is just a tease for a possible Third Season!

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

WTF?! Ending a show with an actual interesting character getting "killed"?! And Araragi and Senjougahara not getting any scenes together the whole arc (or the whole show, for that matter), and Ougi still running around doing who knows what evil stuff. This whole thing is just a tease for a possible Third Season!

Spoiler for Response:

Well Araragi and Hitagi's relationship is an informed relationship, it doesn't get that much spot light in the Light Novel either even up to this arc and past arcs. There are only subtle details, but all details depicting their relationship are growing stronger as time goes on.

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

WTF?! Ending a show with an actual interesting character getting "killed"?! And Araragi and Senjougahara not getting any scenes together the whole arc (or the whole show, for that matter), and Ougi still running around doing who knows what evil stuff. This whole thing is just a tease for a possible Third Season!

Ah! this again... The series is not Hitagi's and Koyomi's love story, to be quite frank their relationship is a simple plot device. As for the rest, it's the same problem with Bakemonogatari TV adaption... This is not the end of the second season, Hanamonogatari/Suruga Devil is.

[Swigun]

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

Ah! this again... The series is not Hitagi's and Koyomi's love story, to be quite frank their relationship is a simple plot device. As for the rest, it's the same problem with Bakemonogatari TV adaption... This is not the end of the second season, Hanamonogatari/Suruga Devil is.

Just because they posticipated Hana, it doesn't mean that Koi isn't the real second season last arc.

For the pair, I think justsomeguy means that even if it's called Love Story, they didn't have screentime (more like the screentime he expected).
And it's plot, not a plot device.

Spoiler for koi:

The manga in Nadeko's closet is a plot device, not Hitagi X Koyomi.

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by Swigun

Just because they posticipated Hana, it doesn't mean that Koi isn't the real second season last arc.

For the pair, I think justsomeguy means that even if it's called Love Story, they didn't have screentime (more like the screentime he expected).
And it's plot, not a plot device.

Spoiler for koi:

The manga in Nadeko's closet is a plot device, not Hitagi X Koyomi.

I disagree. What you mentioned in the spoiler is more significant to character development and storytelling for the final arc, even I hazard to say an integral part of the plot. Hitagi X Koyomi is fleetingly used throughout the series to start or change sequence of events, and is then left aside.

Or let's count how many scenes had Hitagi with Koyomi in Nisemonogatari.... the grand total of two, both related to Hitagi's past crash, Kaiki... not even about her and Koyomi. I understand that the original TV broadcast is to blame for expecting to see more about their relationship, but when watching the whole of the 1st series and even so more when reading the novel, puts things into another perspective. Expecting for Hitagi relationship with Koyomi to be significant in any story after it was resolved way back in the middle of Tsubasa Cat is equivalent of expecting more romantic development between Tsubasa and Koyomi after Tsubasa Tiger or even between Suruga and Hitagi after Suruga Monkey... though I really hope I am completely wrong on that last one

[JTeague]

Originally Posted by Swigun

Just because they posticipated Hana, it doesn't mean that Koi isn't the real second season last arc.

Spoiler for koi:

The manga in Nadeko's closet is a plot device, not Hitagi X Koyomi.

I think he meant the Novels. The novels are broken up into 3 seasons. Koi was published after Hana, but since they skipped Hana to probably try and follow chronology, Hana is the last untold story of the second season.

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by JTeague

I think he meant the Novels. The novels are broken up into 3 seasons. Koi was published after Hana, but since they skipped Hana to probably try and follow chronology, Hana is the last untold story of the second season.

You don't see Bakemonogatari starting with Kizu....I wonder why the change...

[AmeNoJaku]

If I am not mistaken, chronologically the second season ends with Hanamonogatari, despite that and from my experience with the first season, it is better to follow the publication order, because character development and storytelling flows a lot better in that order.

[DGDCOne]

Kaiki is a cool character in Monogatari so far.
I'm so sad he died at the end and I was wonder about that kid who got lied from Kaiki a long time.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

Ah! this again... The series is not Hitagi's and Koyomi's love story, to be quite frank their relationship is a simple plot device. As for the rest, it's the same problem with Bakemonogatari TV adaption... This is not the end of the second season, Hanamonogatari/Suruga Devil is.

I don't care what the so-called "facts" are. I want more Senjougahara x Araragi. The novels are not the "truth," the anime is my truth.

Really outstanding series. Kaiki is like the super-Araragi, lol. Terrific character made more terrific by Miki Shinichirou's voice. The intimation that Senjougahara "always" treats any love as her first love was brilliant: sends echoes back through time to the first series.

Of course, the best thing about the show is Shinbou. He is just better than anyone else at the visual and aural rhythms of animation. Maybe Shinkai is his equal, in his own different style. In any case, Nishio Ishin's novels give Shinbou a perfect subject for his particular form of artistry. These episodes are works of art, for me.