F/SN UBW TV - Episode 19 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

Also, it's not arrogance. Two flowers from the same plant, from the same roots can be different in their colour or phenotype when they are placed in different stimuli. Archer experienced a world that Shirou hasn't; Archer did not have a future version of him pop up to put him down while Shirou has not experienced actively killing people to save others. As such, different experiences make different people. This is also applicable with this series as UBW and HF have their roots in FZ, but due to different experiences, UBW Shirou is different from HF Shirou.

I do not dispute that your experiences can change you, but that's exactly the point. Shirou is claiming that he would have no regret no matter what, and that includes having the same experience that Archer had beyond whatever has happened in the holy grail war.

Now, if he had said that he would do everything that he could do to make sure that even if whatever happened to Archer would happen to him he would still have no regret, then that would show me that he is simply determined in his ideal.

But instead, he just matter-of-factly said that he would never have any regret no matter what. That's pure arrogance.

[Justice Knight]

20 mins of hero of justice, duh......

[TwilightsCall]

Despite being almost entirely exposition, I was very pleased with this episode. I felt like it slowed us down just comfortably enough to put some weight behind the upcoming episode, rather than the other option of FIGHT SCENE FIGHT SCENE FIGHT SCENE!!11!!1!

The glimpses into Archer's past (?) were also really cool to see after...11 years. I'm curious if they are going to expand on that more in the following episode or not, since it would seem to make sense from the VN text, but seems almost redundant now. Either way, should be interesting to see how the next episode plays out.

All in all, very large improvement over the past two or three episodes. Very much looking forward to how they move on from here.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

Archer did not have a future version of him pop up to put him down while Shirou has not experienced actively killing people to save others.

You don't know this.

[bhl88]

VN: Kill Shirou.
Anime: Make him commit suicide.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by Justice Knight

20 mins of hero of justice, duh......

Sorry that they couldn't entertain you with a fight scene for an episode or two.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Dengar

You don't know this.

"Counter Guardian EMIYA" had to start somewhere. There should be at least one universe where the Holy Grail War didn't have EMIYA as Archer.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

"Counter Guardian EMIYA" had to start somewhere. There should be at least one universe where the Holy Grail War didn't have EMIYA as Archer.

And had Ajax as Archer, which is how Shirou witnessed Rho Aias~

That's my headcanon anyway xD

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

"Counter Guardian EMIYA" had to start somewhere. There should be at least one universe where the Holy Grail War didn't have EMIYA as Archer.

That may be true, but assuming the translation is correct, Archer might've had at least a similar event that made him think the way Shirou is thinking now:

Shirou: No matter what happens to me, I'll never regret a thing. And that's why I'll never accept you. If you're my ideal, then I'll just have to get rid of that mistaken ideal myself!

Archer: That way of thinking is where all of this started. One day you will reach the point where you become me.

Actually, even if he had to start somewhere, as he is outside of time if I understand it correctly, he can always appear at the holy grail war at any possible world.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

"Counter Guardian EMIYA" had to start somewhere. There should be at least one universe where the Holy Grail War didn't have EMIYA as Archer.

... That's not true. He could have met himself in his own timeline just the same.

And don't tell me that "EMIYA Archer couldn't possibly have existed at that time" stuff. This very episode has established that time is meaningless.

[Shyni]

This episode had lots of talking but it was pretty exciting talking.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by Dengar

... That's not true. He could have met himself in his own timeline just the same.

And don't tell me that "EMIYA Archer couldn't possibly have existed at that time" stuff. This very episode has established that time is meaningless.

If that's true, shouldn't Heroic Spirit Emiya know that this is the second time he's in 5th HGW?

We have EMIYA who sees EMIYA in his HGW, EMIYA later becomes Heroic Spirit - is summoned in EMIYA's timeline, but he wasn't trying to kill his past self, then does his guardian work and now he's summoned in Shirou's timeline.

Or am I looking at this wrong? I dunno, it just works better if we assume that in EMIYA's time-line the Archer class servant was Ajax.

[Shyni]

Originally Posted by Levani

If that's true, shouldn't Heroic Spirit Emiya know that this is the second time he's in 5th HGW?

We have EMIYA who sees EMIYA in his HGW, EMIYA later becomes Heroic Spirit - is summoned in EMIYA's timeline, but he wasn't trying to kill his past self, then does his guardian work and now he's summoned in Shirou's timeline.

I think it's stated somewhere that the Servants "summoned" in the Grail war are (in most cases) actually copies and the actual spirit/consciousness is somewhere else and unaffected, so if Archer was summoned for a Grail war in any other timeline, he wouldn't remember anyway.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by Shyni

I think it's stated somewhere that the Servants "summoned" in the Grail war are (in most cases) actually copies and the actual spirit/consciousness is somewhere else and unaffected, so if Archer was summoned for a Grail war in any other timeline, he wouldn't remember anyway.

But Archer seems to remember everything from his works as a Counter-Guardian and he also has memory from his Grail War and knows who the servants are.

Saber does too but we know she is not a complete Heroic Spirit. Seems like Counter-Guardians also remember everything.

[Kanon]

Yet another Emiya remix to add to the list. Wish they had used the original version though, this one didn't sound all that good. Maybe next week.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Yet another Emiya remix to add to the list. Wish they had used the original version though, this one didn't sound all that good. Maybe next week.

You must be joking, it was amazing...

[Shyni]

Originally Posted by Levani

But Archer seems to remember everything from his works as a Counter-Guardian and he also has memory from his Grail War and knows who the servants are.

Saber does too but we know she is not a complete Heroic Spirit. Seems like Counter-Guardians also remember everything.

Maybe he remembers the Guardian stuff but not the times he's summoned for the Grail war...? I mean, otherwise he should remember one of the other routes too, considering he's not bound to any particular timeline.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Levani

You must be joking, it was amazing...

Among all the official remixes, I definitely think this one ranks near the bottom. Only amazing part were the piano notes, which are pretty much straight from the original anyway.

[eiyuuou]

Originally Posted by Shyni

I think it's stated somewhere that the Servants "summoned" in the Grail war are (in most cases) actually copies and the actual spirit/consciousness is somewhere else and unaffected, so if Archer was summoned for a Grail war in any other timeline, he wouldn't remember anyway.

His copied weapons are supposedly allow Shiro to retrieve memories, hence his ability to use nine lives blade works in Heaven's Feel or Archer recalling his time as a Counter Guardian.

[Tenzen12]

Well it's supposed be different if someone became HS while they are still alive. That's why both EMYA and Saber have memories. Or that's how I understand to mechanics at least

Originally Posted by Levani

If that's true, shouldn't Heroic Spirit Emiya know that this is the second time he's in 5th HGW?

We have EMIYA who sees EMIYA in his HGW, EMIYA later becomes Heroic Spirit - is summoned in EMIYA's timeline, but he wasn't trying to kill his past self, then does his guardian work and now he's summoned in Shirou's timeline.

Or am I looking at this wrong? I dunno, it just works better if we assume that in EMIYA's time-line the Archer class servant was Ajax.

Isn't simply possible he attended Troy war and saw real deal?