F/SN UBW TV - Episode 18 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

How come Gilgamesh doesn't get pissed and attack Archer after Archer talked down to Shinji and him if they try to interfere?

Is it because Gilgamesh thinks the whole thing is amusing and he wants a front row seat to a good show between archer and emiya

Probably, yes. That way he can also just kill the winner of that fight (which is indeed what he tried to do).

Originally Posted by Levani

Oh right, how stupid of me. Now I remember.

One final question, do Saber and Gilgamesh have an encounter in UBW? Do they speak about the 4th Holy Grail war?

Yes, after Shirou defeats Archer, Gilgamesh attacks and skewers Archer and shows himself. Saber steps up then and she and Gil have a relatively long conversation in which he explains to her that he's been around since the last war.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Furthermore, instead of Shirou counterattacking with a sword rain of his own, he replicated the swords in his hands one by one.

Isn't that how he did it in the VN? I mean I can't be 100% but I'm fairly sure Shirou never did a sword rain.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by NAJ P. Jackson

Nope. Saber was too busy fighting Assassin in the Temple stairs while Gil fought Shirou.

Actually, if I remember correctly, Saber and Gil does met with each other after the battle of Shirou vs Archer in "Answer".

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Isn't that how he did it in the VN? I mean I can't be 100% but I'm fairly sure Shirou never did a sword rain.

He did sword rain in the VN. He projected and countered all of Archer's blades which resulted in a clash of projectiles and made it an epic fight. Ufotable disappointed me so much

I'm gonna take a guess and say maybe Ufotable is planning to do that with Gil and Shirou fight instead.

Originally Posted by ShadowSamurai365

Actually, if I remember correctly, Saber and Gil does met with each other after the battle of Shirou vs Archer in "Answer".

Well yeah they met but they didn't spend much time reminiscing of the 4th War. He was mainly there to insult the two Fakers.

[Dengar]

Hm.. Maybe the reason I find that hard to believe is... because it actually IS hard to believe. I mean, suppose what you say is true, and it was changed in the anime... Wouldn't you say it's a good change? I mean what he does now makes a lot more sense.

You know? Doing shit we've already seen him do instead of pulling a new power out of his ass like a bad shonen?

[Levani]

Nope. Not as I recall. Saber was too busy fighting Assassin in the Temple stairs while Shirou fought Gil.

;_; ... Why must my least favorite route (Fate) have the scene I've been waiting in FSN to happen since I've watched Zero. Or why must my least favorite route be about my favorite character.

Kono sekai wa zankoku nanda.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by ShadowSamurai365

Actually, if I remember correctly, Saber and Gil does met with each other after the battle of Shirou vs Archer in "Answer".

They also see each other again briefly after Saber defeats Assassin and appears to save Shirou from one of Gil's sword spams. Which actually leads to a fairly amusing image when Shirou tells Saber to go save Rin and that he'll handle Gil:

Spoiler:

I'm actually sort of hoping ufotable include some of Saber and Gilgamesh's interactions from the Fate route, because otherwise people who were introduced to Fate with the Zero anime might be disappointed their subplot never led anywhere.

[Levani]

I'm actually sort of hoping ufotable include some of Saber and Gilgamesh's interactions from the Fate route, because otherwise people who were introduced to Fate with the Zero anime might be disappointed their subplot never led anywhere.

We can point them to DEEN anime, I guess.

But I'm with you, a little bit of expansion would be really sweet. One clash or two would be nice as well.

We have Heaven's Feel to look forward to but Gil gets taken out like a bitch there. Hopefully Sakura VS Gilgamesh is a bit changed and the fight is a bit longer.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Levani

We can point them to DEEN anime, I guess.

They actually did that scene surprisingly well (Kenji Kawai's glorious soundtrack helps, of course). Too bad there's no way it can be included in this anime (Shirou being Gil's final opponent in UBW after all), because it's easily Gil's best scene in FSN as far as I'm concerned.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by NAJ P. Jackson

He did sword rain in the VN. He projected and countered all of Archer's blades which resulted in a clash of projectiles and made it an epic fight. Ufotable disappointed me so much

I'm gonna take a guess and say maybe Ufotable is planning to do that with Gil and Shirou fight instead.


Well yeah they met but they didn't spend much time reminiscing of the 4th War. He was mainly there to insult the two Fakers.

I saw both that scene on youtube and read the scene on lparchive. Based on watching/reading that scene, there were 18 swords heading towards Saber. Based on what was stated, it said that Shirou had copied the rain of swords in front of him. However, I didn't see anywhere where it stated (or apply) that Shirou did the exact same thing Archer did ( sending out flying swords). Also at that moment, Shirou stated that he can't copy all of the swords quickly on eyes alone, and that he did what he did in that scene based on a theory he had.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

They actually did that scene surprisingly well (Kenji Kawai's glorious soundtrack helps, of course). Too bad there's no way it can be included in this anime (Shirou being Gil's final opponent in UBW after all), because it's easily Gil's best scene in FSN as far as I'm concerned.

Oh wow, it's really beautiful and touching. Even a bit romantic.

Also, another question, damn my VN memory is vague...

When Kirei gets taken out, do we see Gilgamesh even giving a tiny bit of crap about it? Does he even know Kirei got killed?

[Dengar]

I don't think he gave the matter any thought since he was too busy playing around. (UBW is his "I'm playing around" episode)

[Reckoner]

The lack of sword rain from Shirou was pretty disappointing. Reminded me one of the most egregious details of the UBW movie when Shirou just shounen will powered the projectiles away by hand. I HOPE that the BD shows what he really did in the VN because to me that is just silly.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Levani

When Kirei gets taken out, do we see Gilgamesh even giving a tiny bit of crap about it?

Nope. That's definitely something I would like ufotable to rectify. I think it's safe to assume that when Nasu wrote the VN he didn't really plan for Kirei and Gilgamesh to have any special connection beside being partners in crime, but after Fate/Zero it'll be pretty jarring not to have Gil at least comment on Kirei's death. I mean, you can infer that he's still honoring Kirei since his goal is to give birth Angra Mainyu, which is what Kirei wanted, but still, it would be nice to have him openly acknowledge it somehow. Of course, at the time of Kirei's death, he was probably busy stealthily watching Shirou vs Archer, but he could still say something afterwards. Maybe when he confronts Shinji and turns him into the Grail.

[Dengar]

Ok since this was getting ridiculous, I went ahead and looked it up. Nowhere is there ANY mention of Shirou doing a sword rain. I checked! It's not there! Maybe you were thinking about the UBW movie?

[Levani]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Nope. That's definitely something I would like ufotable to rectify. I think it's safe to assume that when Nasu wrote the VN he didn't really plan for Kirei and Gilgamesh to have any special connection beside being partners in crime, but after Fate/Zero it'll be pretty jarring not to have Gil at least comment on Kirei's death. I mean, you can infer that he's still honoring Kirei since his goal is to give birth Angra Mainyu, which is what Kirei wanted, but still, it would be nice to have him openly acknowledge it somehow. Of course, at the time of Kirei's death, he was probably busy stealthily watching Shirou vs Archer, but he could still say something afterwards. Maybe when he confronts Shinji and turns him into the Grail.

I agree with everything you said.

All the little expansions Ufoable has done so far have been great. I wish there were more of it.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Hm.. Maybe the reason I find that hard to believe is... because it actually IS hard to believe. I mean, suppose what you say is true, and it was changed in the anime... Wouldn't you say it's a good change? I mean what he does now makes a lot more sense.

You know? Doing shit we've already seen him do instead of pulling a new power out of his ass like a bad shonen?

Just to comment on this, I would actually find it more believable for Shirou to be able to copy whatever he just saw Archer doing than to have him defend against all those incoming swords two at a time.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Ok since this was getting ridiculous, I went ahead and looked it up. Nowhere is there ANY mention of Shirou doing a sword rain. I checked! It's not there! Maybe you were thinking about the UBW movie?

Spoiler:

"Trace, on." I can't think because of my headache. My Magic Circuit can only handle one more projection. My insides are burned up and almost melted. But such concerns vanished when I saw this world. Before I realize it, I have jumped up, run to Saber, and am glaring at the annoying swords. "Shirou!? No, quickly" I don't care. For now, the oncoming 18 swords. Analysis of all of them cannot be completed with my eyes alone, so my senses run wild and…

Go past the fastest speed, go faster and faster and faster…

The approach.

Something like a cocking hammer goes in my head.

"Don't" I stick out my left arm. I have no doubts. I've copied him so many times. If there is nothing wrong with the theory… "Be ridiculous, dammit…!!!!" …There is no way I can't reproduce the rain of swords in front of me!

Broken pieces fly around.

When I open my eyes, his Reality Marble has disappeared.

The very fact that he raised only his left arm implied he didn't just bruteforce his way into batting away Archer's blades and did a Sword Rain of his own to counter.

[Dengar]

That's some hella far fetched deduction there. O_o That scene doesn't even show whether or not he was successful. He just woke up surrounded by sword shards. From that I read something like he was barely able to reproduce the swords. Not make them rain.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Originally Posted by Dengar

That's some hella far fetched deduction there. O_o That scene doesn't even show whether or not he was successful. He just woke up surrounded by sword shards.

Your opinion of it not being a sword rain is as far fetch of a deduction as well. According to you then Shirou manage to bat away 18 swords using only his left arm.

We should also take into account the Sound effects in that scene in the game. And in it we can clearly hear swords clashing sound effects proving that Shirou was successful in countering the blades.