F/SN UBW TV - Episode 7 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[HtwoN]

Ok, ok. You certainly have good eyes to detect flaws in fast action sequences.

My eyes aren't as good so I will pass.

But as I said, you shouldn't take a shot out of an action sequence and say "the art is bad". It is not supposed to be used that way.

Originally Posted by Amarantine

not only that, the BD versions were virtually identical to the TV ones

You are wrong on this claim though. Take a look at this:

http://www.kira-reviews.com/blog/arc...egory/fatezero

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

But as I said, you shouldn't take a shot out of an action sequence and say "the art is bad". It is not supposed to be used that way.

Well, except for the shot of Archer, the images I posted were actually still and focused on for a while. And like I said, it looked choppy to me even in motion, but that's just me I guess.

Originally Posted by HtwoN

You are wrong on this claim though. Take a look at this:

http://www.kira-reviews.com/blog/arc...egory/fatezero

Um, are you sure you read what they say there? Because they totally echo what I said: "I'm not going to sugar coat it, this has been pretty disappointing compared to the first season's BD. Very little was added in comparison, and the changes were fewer too."

Note that I was referring specifically to S2 of Fate/Zero. S1 had significant additions in the BD release, but the second one not so much, unfortunately.

[Jerseykid]

If Shirou is so weak and vulnerable, why hasn't Saber given him Avalon yet?

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Well, except for the shot of Archer, the images I posted were actually still and focused on for a while. And like I said, it looked choppy to me even in motion, but that's just me I guess.

Yeah, I have to say again that you have really good eyes.

Note that I was referring specifically to S2 of Fate/Zero. S1 had significant additions in the BD release, but the second one not so much, unfortunately.

Oh, I see what you mean.

I think we should save all the criticism for art and animation until the BD release (especially art). Ufo hasn't even sugar-coated it yet.

[Subarunyon II]

Originally Posted by Jerseykid

If Shirou is so weak and vulnerable, why hasn't Saber given him Avalon yet?

Shirou does have Avalon. Saber didnt even know that Kiritsugu had it.

[Jerseykid]

Originally Posted by Subarunyon II

Shirou does have Avalon. Saber didnt even know that Kiritsugu had it.

If he has it why is he crawling around on the ground, bleeding profusely from getting his back slashed, barely able to move everywhere. When Kiritsugu when he had it gets his heart crushed and pops right back up no problem.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Jerseykid

If he has it why is he crawling around on the ground, bleeding profusely from getting his back slashed, barely able to move everywhere. When Kiritsugu when he had it gets his heart crushed and pops right back up no problem.

Avalon will only truly work at 100% efficiency for Saber. For anyone else, they need Saber around for its functions to work, which won't happen at its maximum efficiency, and Saber wasn't in near enough proximity for it to begin regenerating him in earnest. And we've already seen the regeneration in action earlier in the series, in the episode after the Berserker fight.

Caster's bounded field might have affected the range, too. There was nothing magical between Saber and Kiritsugu during the finale of Fate/zero's Grail War, but Caster has an anti-Heroic Spirit bounded field surrounding the temple, with only a single opening to get in or out of.

[Jerseykid]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Avalon will only truly work at 100% efficiency for Saber. For anyone else, they need Saber around for its functions to work, which won't happen at its maximum efficiency, and Saber wasn't in near enough proximity for it to begin regenerating him in earnest. And we've already seen the regeneration in action earlier in the series, in the episode after the Berserker fight.

Caster's bounded field might have affected the range, too. There was nothing magical between Saber and Kiritsugu during the finale of Fate/zero's Grail War, but Caster has an anti-Heroic Spirit bounded field surrounding the temple, with only a single opening to get in or out of.

i'll go with the bounded field theory or bad writing theory. Saber wasn't in the room with Kiritsugu when he was fighting kirei yet the effect was amazing. She was in the area then and here she is just down the steps

[Rev Okkin]

Originally Posted by Jerseykid

i'll go with the bounded field theory or bad writing theory. Saber wasn't in the room with Kiritsugu when he was fighting kirei yet the effect was amazing. She was in the area then and here she is just down the steps

I remember Avalon's healing depends on the contract Saber is with.
With Kiritsugu, they have a complete contract with Kiritsugu being a great mage to add. So Avalon's effects is obviously good.
With Iri, there's no contract. Iri wasn't healed by Avalon until Saber came by from the other side of the Einzbern Castle.
So with Shirou, somewhat a middle ground, has a contract but incomplete. Avalon can heal him with Saber near, but it takes some time. Shirou as shown in the anime, wasn't healed by Avalon until they got to his room. The graveyard is on the otherside of the bridge so there is a reasonable time gap between the time the injury should be healed by Avalon and the time Avalon heals him. The boundary of Caster may have something to do with it as well.

[MCAL]

Finally got to watching it in HD. Should have probably given it a 10 instead.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Jerseykid

If he has it why is he crawling around on the ground, bleeding profusely from getting his back slashed, barely able to move everywhere. When Kiritsugu when he had it gets his heart crushed and pops right back up no problem.

Kiritsugu was a proper mage. At least compared to Shirou. His magic circuits are so feeble and crappy, his contract so botched, that he hasn't even formed a proper spirit connection with her. As a result, he can't give her any mana at all, which is a pity considering he dragon factor let's her produce huge quantities of mana on her own with a just the tiniest bit as an ignition key.

[Dengar]

You know, as devastating as a crushed heart is, it's technically a lot LESS damage to repair than all the cuts and blood loss shirou suffers.

Originally Posted by Amarantine

You don't need a lot of budget to make talking scenes visually engaging, just skillful storyboarding. Plenty of shows like Neon Genesis Evangelion had relatively limited budgets but still managed to make talking scenes look interesting with unique angles and memorable shots. I think ufotable is generally good at it too, but this episode was not their best work IMO.



Well I find it to be a lazy and visually dull style, and therefore bad, especially when overused as it was in this episode. You're free to disagree, but you're not going to invalidate my view with something like that. I could just as well say "you may like it, but that doesn't mean it's good."



Again, I could just as well say I think you're being overly apologetic, it's all in the eye of the beholder. And obviously I did view it as a sequence initially, it's not like I was watching the episode while stopping it frame by frame, and even then I already noticed the art looked choppy and not up to par (during Archer vs Caster). Nothing of the sort happened while I was watching the Lancer fights, where the character models were generally much more polished and consistent. But I guess I shouldn't expect the standard episodes 0 and 1 set to be the norm, since ufotable probably had those two episodes cooking in the oven for quite a while.

As for them saving their budget for S2, I'd like to believe so, but the exact opposite happened with Fate/Zero (not only that, the BD versions were virtually identical to the TV ones), so I can't be too sure.

Didn't NGE just have a lot of camera panning to avoid having to animate anything?

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Didn't NGE just have a lot of camera panning to avoid having to animate anything?

Not really, it had a lot more than that (but this is hardly the place to go into it), and even when it resorted to camera panning it did so to great effect. That's what great directors do, they work around their budget limitations and still manage to create a powerful visual experience regardless.

[Tenzen12]

Wow, Ufo makes Saber actualy likeable this time!

Seriously she was always like: "I am first Knight, than King, than servant, and LAST person... screw it I am only first three!" Even all effort of Iri, Alex and Diermund failed humanise her in the end (and of course FZ was still better in that regard than VN and Deen). Well, I guess even though Shiro is idiot, in comparison of Kiritsugu he is true blessing as master, so she have reason to be happy.

Putting that aside, Archer channeling Kiritsugu (aka his father) is nice touch. Same goes for Kojiro and FZ lancer.

PS:Shouldn't be impossible for normal magus to reach level of even the weakest servant? Of course there are some exceptions like Basset or Shiro, but Saber shouldn't know he is one of these right?

[GDB]

In terms of sword skill, he's still merely an Archer. His sword skill is the kind that can be trained by any swordsman, given enough time. Saber's only commenting on that, not on his Noble Phantasm (since she hasn't seen it), nuclear arrowheads, or Servant speed/strength.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Wow, Ufo makes Saber actualy likeable this time!

Seriously she was always like: "I am first Knight, than King, than servant, and LAST person... screw it I am only first three!" Even all effort of Iri, Alex and Diermund failed humanise her in the end (and of course FZ was still better in that regard than VN and Deen). Well, I guess even though Shiro is idiot, in comparison of Kiritsugu he is true blessing as master, so she have reason to be happy.

I think it's mostly that having a Master who's easier to relate to than Kiritsugu does wonders.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Putting that aside, Archer channeling Kiritsugu (aka his father) is nice touch.

I remember that the Fate/Extra game elaborated a bit on what Archer was like when he was alive and it showed he was basically Kiritsugu.

Gives a new meaning to the fact that he is called the Heroic Spirit EMIYA.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I know some people put Assassin down for not being a "real" legendary soul. But I hope this episode proves that his swordsmanship is the real deal.

Not me. (Fake) Assassin is one of my most cherished servants since the first time I saw him on DEEN's anime. In fact, I didn't feel as lovestruck when I played the VN afterwards and encounter his character. It's DEEN's Stay Night that made him cool to me. Something about DEEN's execution when they introduced that ficticious samurai the first time around when facing Saber just feels right for me (then again, DEEN is one of two studios that gave us Samurai X original series, so yeah). Now the Kojiro fights we saw in this UFOtable episode comes a very close second (due to the music that I don't feel as strongly) but I still like it a lot too. *getting ready to fend off scary VN-UFOtable-purist fans bringing their torches and pitchforks and screaming "blasphemy!!!" at me*

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Not really, it had a lot more than that (but this is hardly the place to go into it), and even when it resorted to camera panning it did so to great effect. That's what great directors do, they work around their budget limitations and still manage to create a powerful visual experience regardless.

It reminds me of the case with Patlabor 2 movie. The makers can't spare anymore money to animate the rebel military factions' tanks so they just use still frames of the tanks from various angle set in certain spots of the city looking menacing amid the snow with the foreboding silence. The result is a genuine work of art that sends the message of dread, instability and uncertainty during that sequence which is acknowledged by both fans and critics as a stroke of genius. All that originated from the need to save money. It's like Steven Spielberg's Jaws all over again.

[Levani]

I can't believe there are complaints about the animation in this series? UBW 2014 and Fate/Zero are one of the most beautiful animes I've seen, production wise O_O Nothing comes closes to this so far.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I think it's mostly that having a Master who's easier to relate to than Kiritsugu does wonders.



I remember that the Fate/Extra game elaborated a bit on what Archer was like when he was alive and it showed he was basically Kiritsugu.

Gives a new meaning to the fact that he is called the Heroic Spirit EMIYA.

That's actually quite funny really when you compare Saber's stats between Kiritsugu and Shirou. With Kiritsugu, her stats were higher; however her "Luck" stat was D rank, while her "Luck" stat was B rank with Shirou (saying that since Kiritsugu was unable to provide sufficient magical energy, her "Luck" stat was affected by his "way of life"/personality).

[Rev Okkin]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Not me. (Fake) Assassin is one of my most cherished servants since the first time I saw him on DEEN's anime. In fact, I didn't feel as lovestruck when I played the VN afterwards and encounter his character. It's DEEN's Stay Night that made him cool to me. Something about DEEN's execution when they introduced that ficticious samurai the first time around when facing Saber just feels right for me (then again, DEEN is one of two studios that gave us Samurai X original series, so yeah). Now the Kojiro fights we saw in this UFOtable episode comes a very close second (due to the music that I don't feel as strongly) but I still like it a lot too. *getting ready to fend off scary VN-UFOtable-purist fans bringing their torches and pitchforks and screaming "blasphemy!!!" at me*

To be honest, I consider the best fight in the Deen version was the fight against Assassin. Deen knows stuff about samurais and ancient Japan and it would be best to stick to them. Encountering Assassin again in the VN or ufotable version, of course people won't be as lovestruck since love hits the most in the moment one falls in love for the first time. That doesn't put down the VN or ufotable version at all, it just puts Deen's Assassin on a good recognition.
Music wise, ufotable and Deen are on par. It's just that Deen had the whole track devoted to just Saber vs Assassin while ufotable shares the fight with Caster vs Archer so it might be undermined(?). Personally, the track is just as good and this might lead us back to an argument of the music composers but music is subjective and objective. Objective in that it has to match the scene it is played in (both versions are doing well in that) and subjective in that is comes to personal taste of the music (I feel Deen does the sword and magic feel of music while ufotable does the same but with more of a modernism feel)