Nisemonogatari - Episode 04 Discussion / Poll

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think it can be taken one of two ways. It's either that she's afraid for Koyomi's life... but I'm not sure just how likely that is with Tsubasa at this point. (Though she is trying to keep him away from Kaiki, so maybe? Tsubasa's clearly more of a force to be reckoned with than she lets on, cat demon notwithstanding.) Or she thinks on some level that Tsubasa has a chance of winning Koyomi over romantically, i.e. she's still not totally confident in Koyomi's love for her if the "opponent" is Tsubasa. Given the insecurity that subtly pervade her words and actions, perhaps it's a combination of both? Not sure... my interpretation was that it was more the latter than the former in Tsubasa's case, but I'm not sure.

Tsubasa was there before her. It's just that Tsubasa was very slow in her romantic development, and never made an open play for Koyomi. In some ways Hitagi swept in and stole Koyomi from Tsubasa.

I think it's a mixture of guilt and a real fear that if Tsubasa decided to make a serious play for Koyomi instead of respecting his choice of Hitagi, that Hitagi isn't entirely certain Koyomi would choose her.

Sure she's pretty sure he would... but Koyomi's relationship with Tsubasa predates her. Koyomi saved Tsubasa first. What if he's only playing along with being Hitagi's boyfriend because he think it's what Hitagi needs to be saved?

[ThereminVox]

Kanbaru mentioned that she would have thought Koyomi would end up with Tsubasa. I wonder if Hitagi's heard similar musings from her or others, and if so, if that would trouble her.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

I don't get why Tsubasa found it amusing Koyomi called his sister's name with -chan instead of just imouto?

Because in front of them he acts so cold and distant -- note he never even called them by name or anything, just like "the younger one" or whatever. But when Koyomi's discussing with Tsubasa, he lets his true feelings slip in the way he addresses them (which is the way he calls them in his head). It shows that he really does care about them a lot more than he's willing to show them (just like his reaction when he got the text last episode). The whole family appears to be like that; they all act tough in front of each other, but really care for each other deep down.

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

Kanbaru mentioned that she would have thought Koyomi would end up with Tsubasa. I wonder if Hitagi's heard similar musings from her or others, and if so, if that would trouble her.

Well, yeah, if Kanbaru thinks so, I don't think Hitagi hadn't long-ago figured it out. But yeah, I think Kanbaru's comment ties the two scenes together in a fairly succinct way, and that's why I too believe the "romantic threat" theory. I think it's the most logical explanation, and it puts Hitagi's behaviour in perspective (talks tough, but deeply insecure about her romance with Koyomi).

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

Kanbaru mentioned that she would have thought Koyomi would end up with Tsubasa. I wonder if Hitagi's heard similar musings from her or others, and if so, if that would trouble her.

Hachikuji said something similar last season too. I think it's just supposed to be what most third parties would think.

[Shadow5YA]

Maaya Sakamoto did an excellent job. Listening to Shinobu was wonderful.

[joshuafaramir]

I have to say that SHAFT really did an excellent job with the anime. I've read LN adaptations and found their anime counterpart lacking but this one, it's really good.

[LotionExplosion]

Honestly, How come the Hanekawa scenes are so boring... Overall it was just dialogue-fest with Shinobu, I still can't over the fact she said that she said she was talkative when she hardly spoke in Bakemonogatari
Does anyone know who Shinobu's VA is?

Spoiler for Ending:

Wait, The ending lines kinda confused me... Does Shinobu want to kill him or not? Does killing him set her free from him?

[Romanticide]

Originally Posted by LotionExplosion

Does anyone know who Shinobu's VA is?

Maaya Sakamoto.

[jeroz]

If anything this episode is the best promotional video for Kizumonogatari.

Spoiler for my favourite line in the whole episode:

"why don't you kill me".
I'm not sure whether that was just a joking remark or is Shinobu filled with grief.

Originally Posted by omimon

Who here is a guy and bath with rose petals?

If i have a loli gold hair vampire taking a bath with me I will have rose petals ready

[omimon]

Something of interest, Shaft kept 99% of the bath scene. Of course they couldn't include the inside monolog but the only line that they didn't keep was the bit about Shinobu's helmet.

[ID555]

Originally Posted by omimon

Something of interest, Shaft kept 99% of the bath scene. Of course they couldn't include the inside monolog but the only line that they didn't keep was the bit about Shinobu's helmet.

What about the helmet? Pray tell.



Also, If lolis sound like Shinobu, I wouldn't mind going lolicon

[omimon]

Originally Posted by ID555

What about the helmet? Pray tell.



Also, If lolis sound like Shinobu, I wouldn't mind going lolicon

She's not going to wear it anymore because it's too lame.

[ID555]

^


On a side note, I didn't realise Tsukihi was a brocon... Or was that knife really meant for Shinobu?

And based on Araragi's current closeness with his sisters, it's hard to imagine what's to come...

[HandofFate]

Shinobu bought up a good point on if Araragi's life-span is affected or not.
Also liked the small details like how Shinobu had no reflection in the mirror.

Also, I feel Oshio filled Shinobu's head with stories of the supernatural in case it would be some use to Koyomi someday. Probably Oshio's way of caring for Koyomi.

[holybell84]

I actually spat some saliva out accidentally when Tsukihi walk into the shower lol.

[Om Nerabdator]

Maaya sakamoto is the best VA in japan everyone of her characters are great.

With that alone bakemonogatari just jumped up 2 spots ^^

[Sol Falling]

This show, guys. Holy crap, this show. At this rate, I think they've easily surpassed Bake already.

One comment on Crunchyroll's translation which is relevant to Shinobu's characterization. The line where Shinobu says "I do like [pon-de-ring]. However. Golden Chocolate is my favourite. So if you're going to buy two, buy those." "Pon-de-ring" should probably be "pomme-de-ring", i.e. some apple flavour of donut.

Another tidbit I happened to run across: you know all those red and black cuts we thought SHAFT has been throwing in ever since Bakemonogatari just to be stylish? Aside from the cuts SHAFT used in Bakemonogatari's original run to mask production delays, each of the ones which have been purposely left in actually represent a section of text which have been skipped over/left un-adapted from the original novel manuscripts. Holy crap guys, is this light-novel adaptation on another level or what.

So, anyway, I won't comment too much on Shinobu for the moment as her background is still a bit unclear at the moment. We need to wait for Kizumonogatari to get the full story ("kizumono" = something damaged, broken. "damaged goods" is an evocative translation. "kizu" can mean "wound".). (For the record, "nisemono" = fake, imitation; "bakemono" = monster, literally "shapeshifter".) Let's talk Hanekawa though. Specifically, her characterization.

So, who is Hanekawa? Like, in this episode she and Araragi talk about weakness vs. "strength". Araragi's sisters are still children, are just playing around, because they lack "strength". Araragi himself is weak, perceives himself as worthless, because he lacks "strength". Hanekawa is the one all people seem to identify, even Hitagi, as "strong". That's one aspect of Hanekawa.

More than being strong, though, this episode seems to lead me to ask, what does Hanekawa want? In more concrete terms, why did Hanekawa get mixed up in Karen and Tsukihi's incident with the bad-luck charms? What is the purpose of Hanekawa's involvement in this part of the story.

Araragi says, that what Hanekawa has to come to terms with, is her own strength. That if she goes after something, she is likely to find it. The "thing" that Hanekawa found, this time, was Kaiki (and Karen, lacking real strength, got hurt because of it). But why did Hanekawa go after Kaiki in the first place?

The answer here, I think, is Hanekawa is still chasing after the supernatural. She's still searching for an escape from her repressed life, the world of adventure opened up by her "prince" Araragi. That's what Hanekawa's involvement in the present plotline means, and that may be an issue Araragi will have to deal with again in the future.

Anyway, the revelation that Oshino talked endlessly and filled Shinobu's head up with trivia about kaii's is interesting. That repository of knowledge is basically a huge key/security for Araragi's future dealings with kaii. Knowing that Oshino knew of Shinobu's special connection with Araragi, it seems like his (Oshino's) departure must've been carefully planned.

Araragi's martyrdom, his morality, his sense of duty, all of them seem to have made him certainly committed to persisting together with Shinobu into eternity. With Hitagi afraid of even Hanekawa, is a happy ending for her even possible? This is the overarching plotline of the entire series: the uncertain resolution of Araragi's final destiny.

[Romanticide]

I thought the line was Pon-De-Lion?

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Romanticide

I thought the line was Pon-De-Lion?

The line I got from my crunchyroll stream was "pon-de-ring", and she's obviously talking about doughnuts in that section. It makes sense to me that the "ring" would be a general reference to a doughnut's shape, so parsing for possibilities Shinobu could have meant as far as potential pastry flavours, "pomme" as the French for apple popped out as a likely correction.

edit:

Pretty sure it's also meant to be a pun with "pondering" or "thinking" which they had just been talking about. So it's probably both pon-de-ring and pomme-de-ring, due to how Japanese writes the words.

The one thing I'm uncertain about regarding this possibility is whether "pondering" could really be a loan word readily understood by most Japanese from English. The thing is basically the conjugation, 'cause much as many English words have been exported to Japan I have encountered very few cases where more advanced grammatical forms have actually been correctly integrated into the language.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

The answer here, I think, is Hanekawa is still chasing after the supernatural. She's still searching for an escape from her repressed life, the world of adventure opened up by her "prince" Araragi. That's what Hanekawa's involvement in the present plotline means, and that may be an issue Araragi will have to deal with again in the future.

That's my conclusion too. She's trying to live out her fantasy of being pulled into a "world of adventure" because she hates her life. Thereby seeking out the dangerous world "behind-the-curtain" and dragging the people around her into it. Many of the things Shinobu said about Kaiki could be applied to Hanekawa too. She's quite a dangerous character herself.

As they say, curiosity killed the cat.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

The line I got from my crunchyroll stream was "pon-de-ring", and she's obviously talking about doughnuts in that section. It makes sense to me that the "ring" would be a general reference to a doughnut's shape, so parsing for possibilities Shinobu could have meant as far as potential pastry flavours, "pomme" as the French for apple popped out as a likely correction.

Pretty sure it's also meant to be a pun with "pondering" or "thinking" which they had just been talking about. So it's probably both pon-de-ring and pomme-de-ring, due to how Japanese writes the words.