Hollow powers

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by skurai

Yeah, i got a feeling that form(with the tail and all during the hollow inner fight) was a preview of wats to come. Perhaps it could be ichigo if he turns evil,etc but I believe they didnt take the trouble to create such a nice form if they werent gonna use it later and were just gonna use it for a small portion of an episode.

Hmm i really think he will turn evil cause of wat the bounto said during the bounto arc and it will be because of circumstances, not cause he is such.

Bount arc isn't canon though because it is filler, IMO Ichigo cannot learn how to control his hollow completely as he needs shinigami power ups instead of every two seconds shouting 'GETSUGA TENSHOU' I mean it is like this in a battle

Grimm: *charges at Ichigo*
Ichigo: Getsuga Tenshou
Grimm: *dodges*
Ichigo: Now...GETSUGA TENSHOU
Grimm: *dodges again*
Ichigo: *appears behind Grimm* GETSUGA TENSHOU!!!

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by skurai

Hmm i really think he will turn evil cause of wat the bounto said during the bounto arc and it will be because of circumstances, not cause he is such.

It'll probably be because of an Arrancarization because that's the next biggest powerup shown so far, so he'll probably turn evil for a while. I doubt it'll be permanent though.

[bballstar23]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

It'll probably be because of an Arrancarization because that's the next biggest powerup shown so far, so he'll probably turn evil for a while. I doubt it'll be permanent though.

I don't know though, it seems like the Vizard could beet the Arrancar, but we really haven't seen any of the Vizard or Top 4 Espada at full strength.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by bballstar23

I don't know though, it seems like the Vizard could beet the Arrancar, but we really haven't seen any of the Vizard or Top 4 Espada at full strength.

Seems like Vaizards can beat most Arrancar. But if a hollow of immense power, like a VL, is Arrancarized, they'd be a lot stronger than most Vaizards.

Granted Ichigo isn't in the range of power of a VL, but if his hollow takes over, it would probably be a lot stronger than Grimjaw's original form, before Arrancar hood. If Ichigo's hollow becomes Arrancarized, he'll have that much more power.

[Amirali]

I liked the recent shinigami golden suggesting ichigo is more an arrancar himself than a shinigami. it's a bit tongue in cheek I know, but I still wonder how an arrancar Ichigo would compare power-wise with the vaizard version? (Note, neither version has to be evil; that's not part of it).

[HayashiTakara]

An Arrancar is basically the same as a Vizard... its just reverse. An Arrancar is a hollow that gained Shinigami powers. A Vizard is a Shinigami that gained Hollow powers, but the end "results" are more or less the same... Did that make any sense? XD

Basically if the Shinigami was strong like Captain level and gained the hollow powers, his base "stats" will be amplified. Its the same as an Arrancar, the stronger the base, the stronger the results. Whether or not those powers can increase is yet to be seen... so far, Ichigo hasn't gotten stronger, he's just been able to maintain his form longer. But, we don't know if Ichigo has fully realized his hollow powers yet though. As we have seen that his inner hollow is always whipping out moves that surprises Ichigo, and whatever his inner hollow can do, he can do too.

[Skyring]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

But if a hollow of immense power, like a VL, is Arrancarized, they'd be a lot stronger than most Vaizards.

I've put below in spoilers for space and the fact thats its a possible manga spoiler. (note, i have not read the manga past anime episode 167) and its speculation...

Spoiler for VL Speculation:

the silhouette of a vastolorde from the ep when hitsugaya was explaining the hollow transformations



see the comparison between the masks? Even though Ulquiorra's mask is slightly different to what is in the silhouette, Arrancar only have a part of their mask remaining once fully tansformed, but still speculation I could be wrong.

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by Skyring

I've put below in spoilers for space and the fact thats its a possible manga spoiler. (note, i have not read the manga past anime episode 167) and its speculation...

Spoiler for VL Speculation:

the silhouette of a vastolorde from the ep when hitsugaya was explaining the hollow transformations



see the comparison between the masks? Even though Ulquiorra's mask is slightly different to what is in the silhouette, Arrancar only have a part of their mask remaining once fully tansformed, but still speculation I could be wrong.

Most people have made this assumption but we do not know yet most people thing that Ulqi and up are VL when you compare how strong Ulqi is to Grimm

[skurai]

Originally Posted by HiroInazuma

Bount arc isn't canon though because it is filler, IMO Ichigo cannot learn how to control his hollow completely as he needs shinigami power ups instead of every two seconds shouting 'GETSUGA TENSHOU' I mean it is like this in a battle

Grimm: *charges at Ichigo*
Ichigo: Getsuga Tenshou
Grimm: *dodges*
Ichigo: Now...GETSUGA TENSHOU
Grimm: *dodges again*
Ichigo: *appears behind Grimm* GETSUGA TENSHOU!!!

yeah its filler but kariya appeared even in ichigo inner hollow battle. So, i think its very possible. That plus the full hollow ichigo was too cool to not see again. We even saw a preview of wat it could do like high speed regeneration,etc.

[Thewanderer]

What the hell is with the "IT'S FILLER THOUGH" stuff? It's still in-continuity, so it still counts. There's no reason to mention the fact that it's anime original/filler.

Originally Posted by HiroInazuma

Most people have made this assumption but we do not know yet most people thing that Ulqi and up are VL when you compare how strong Ulqi is to Grimm

Look at it this way though. Consider that all VLs look the same in hollow form(like most Gillian). Maybe the top 3 Espada DOES have remnants of different locations of their old VL masks. That jaw remnant that Stark has? It could be from a standard VL mask.

We couldn't see the VL shadow's jaw, so it's very possible. We really just saw the silhouette, and by chance, part of the silhouette depicts the same region that Ulq's mask helmet is located. Granted, VLs probably don't look all the same, but it's still a possibility.

[skurai]

D-roy, shadowlong=adjuchas.
Consider how much stronger grimmjow is when compared to them. Remember the part where they attacked. No way grim is an adjuchas.

And its not about looks that much. All they say was that vasto lorde look pretty human. This applies to most of the espada. Heck, tesla isnt too strong and he looks bloody human---> he is no vasto lorde.
If an adjuchas like tesla can look so human, i dont think looks matter too much in the determination. Power does.

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by skurai

D-roy, shadowlong=adjuchas.
Consider how much stronger grimmjow is when compared to them. Remember the part where they attacked. No way grim is an adjuchas.

And its not about looks that much. All they say was that vasto lorde look pretty human. This applies to most of the espada. Heck, tesla isnt too strong and he looks bloody human---> he is no vasto lorde.
If an adjuchas like tesla can look so human, i dont think looks matter too much in the determination. Power does.

Grimm said himself he only reached Adjuchas level when he turned into a hollow

@Thewanderer the reason we say it is filler is because it is not in the manga and therefore can not be used as evidence for something like in the current Bleach episode they said there was a new captain but in the manga there is no new captain

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by HiroInazuma

Grimm said himself he only reached Adjuchas level when he turned into a hollow

Exactly. Adjucas-level hollows have a wide range of power levels just like Lieutenant-level Shinigami(compare Renji to the second squad's Lt). Any level of Hollow/Shinigami probably has a pretty wide power level range.

Originally Posted by HiroInazuma

@Thewanderer the reason we say it is filler is because it is not in the manga and therefore can not be used as evidence for something like in the current Bleach episode they said there was a new captain but in the manga there is no new captain

There's nothing to say it can't be used as evidence though. The only reason that some people think that it being a "filler" disctates that is solely because of this unreasonable prejudice against anime-original material.

I'll buy the fact that it's because the arc is out-of-continuity, but not because it's anime-original.

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Exactly. Adjucas-level hollows have a wide range of power levels just like Lieutenant-level Shinigami(compare Renji to the second squad's Lt). Any level of Hollow/Shinigami probably has a pretty wide power level range.

Agreed, it is like if you take it in the form of pokemon Grimm is like a lvl 75 pokemon only in it's second evolution (Charmeleon for example) whilst a normal adjuchas is like another Charmeleon but it is level 59 therefore it is weaker but Ulqi (assuming he is a VL is a level 79 Charizard but because it is in the 3rd evolution it is considerably stronger than a level 75 charmeleon). But a lvl 79 charmeleon and lvl 75 charmeleon won't have a large gap between power levels.

[Skyring]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Look at it this way though. Consider that all VLs look the same in hollow form(like most Gillian). Maybe the top 3 Espada DOES have remnants of different locations of their old VL masks. That jaw remnant that Stark has? It could be from a standard VL mask.

We couldn't see the VL shadow's jaw, so it's very possible. We really just saw the silhouette, and by chance, part of the silhouette depicts the same region that Ulq's mask helmet is located. Granted, VLs probably don't look all the same, but it's still a possibility.

Good point, but at the point where we see Grimmjow as an Adjucas we also see Shawlong and Co. They are all completely different with their own hollow powers. When they ascend into a Vastolorde they aren't gonna all unite and loose uniqueness like a Gillian (it was also stated that when hollow form into Gillian only those who retain a uniqueness can ascend into Adjucas). Plus from the same episode where I took the Vasolorde silhouette you see an Adjucas from hollow in the same way and he looks a lot like Yammy.

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Exactly. Adjucas-level hollows have a wide range of power levels just like Lieutenant-level Shinigami(compare Renji to the second squad's Lt). Any level of Hollow/Shinigami probably has a pretty wide power level range.

Adjucas hollow can fight on par with Lieutenants but Arrancar (even Arrancar formed from Adujcas *Grimmjow*) fight much higher. I'm not saying that you are confusing the two, just pointing the difference out thats all.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Skyring

Adjucas hollow can fight on par with Lieutenants but Arrancar (even Arrancar formed from Adujcas *Grimmjow*) fight much higher. I'm not saying that you are confusing the two, just pointing the difference out thats all.

Yes, I know the difference from the two. Adjucas-level Arrancar is probably more comparable to a Lieutenant-level Vaizard. In theory of course.

[Skyring]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Yes, I know the difference from the two. Adjucas-level Arrancar is probably more comparable to a Lieutenant-level Vaizard. In theory of course.

Yeah I know that you knew the difference just poiting it out just incase anyone was confussled. Would be awesome if Vaizard had those kind of rankings, even more awesome if they were captains (only watched Anime DONT spoil me :P). Captain = Bankai.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by skurai

D-roy, shadowlong=adjuchas.
Consider how much stronger grimmjow is when compared to them. Remember the part where they attacked. No way grim is an adjuchas.

And its not about looks that much. All they say was that vasto lorde look pretty human. This applies to most of the espada. Heck, tesla isnt too strong and he looks bloody human---> he is no vasto lorde.
If an adjuchas like tesla can look so human, i dont think looks matter too much in the determination. Power does.

Spoiler:

Noitora said that anyone capable of being defeated by him couldn't possibly be a vastrolorde and he wasn't even speaking of arrancar but menos-form vastrolorde. If Grimmjow's not considered stronger than Noi even after being made an arrancar, then it's doubtful he's a vastro lorde

I'm guessing when it comes time to reveal who's vastro lorde it will be just before we get to see one fight seriously, and the list won't include arrancar who have already been defeated like GJ.

[skurai]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Spoiler:

Noitora said that anyone capable of being defeated by him couldn't possibly be a vastrolorde and he wasn't even speaking of arrancar but menos-form vastrolorde. If Grimmjow's not considered stronger than Noi even after being made an arrancar, then it's doubtful he's a vastro lorde

I'm guessing when it comes time to reveal who's vastro lorde it will be just before we get to see one fight seriously, and the list won't include arrancar who have already been defeated like GJ.

Spoiler for manga:

Noitara said any1 capable of being defeated by him couldnt possibly be a vasto-lorde. This implies that noitara is a vasto lorde who has been made into an arrancar/espada. Thus, its not possible for a strong vasto lorde espada noitora to lose to a current menos-vasto-lorde.
I dont think an adjuchas-menos-espada would say this.

Thus, any1 stronger than noitora= vasto lorde menos that has turned into arrancar/espada. Uliqiorra is definitely a vasto lorde as well since he is 4th.

This doesnt mean grimmjow is an adjuchas at all. Instead, considering grim is 6th and noitara is 5th. Its highly likely that grim is a vasto lorde as well. And i wouldnt say there is a huge difference in power between grimmjow and noitara.

Originally Posted by HiroInazuma

Grimm said himself he only reached Adjuchas level when he turned into a hollow

@Thewanderer the reason we say it is filler is because it is not in the manga and therefore can not be used as evidence for something like in the current Bleach episode they said there was a new captain but in the manga there is no new captain

Spoiler for manga:

I dont remember grim saying that. Which chapter was it? As far as i know, he was shown as an adjuchas and they kept saying he is destined to be a vasto lorde. Why would they say keep saying that if it wasnt the case anyways. They never showed if it happened or not.

[WhiteWings]

Ichigo's Hollow looked like a lizard or dinosaur. I wonder if we'll see Ichigo go through even more changes later on to boost his power.

Sorry, but does anyone know if the current Espada are made of Vasto Lordes or not? I couldn't find a definite answer yet.