Re:Zero - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Seihai

Good episode. Again we get to see a lot of despair here. There are many new things here that need to be elaborated on. Why didn't those hands grab Subaru's heart like always? .

This time Subaru seemed to make it abundantly clear that the would tell Emilia the truth no matter. In that case, I figured that the hands realized there was no point in threatening him and decided to go after the person he was talking to, which just so happens to also be the girl that he loves to show that they will not allow him to tell anyone about his ability and get away it.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Dist

To that end the Sword Saint should not be remembered even if there were records of him because those records should not exist if he was consumed by White Whale. But perhaps that is the key? The person must be '' eaten '' by the whale? Whereas if the Sword Saint just got killed in action but his body was left behind he was thus not forgotten.

I don't think that is necessarily the case. White Whale's mist may not work on everything related beyond the indivdual itself (their items, writings and such) and the memories ofpeople knew the victims. But if say a letter or autobiography was written about the victium by another person and wasn't erased because of that then that would be loophole. Of course the person who wrote to the victuim wouldn't remember. He/she would just have this unfamiliar name there.

With that said Tong does make a good point that last gen'd Sword Saint might have been killed by something else.

[Elestia]

It's the first OP we've gotten in a while! Even with the OP they still manage to get the pacing just right and slowly draw out Subaru's suffering. The whole entire white whale scene was just as informative as it was horrifying. We learn from Otto that it is a legendary beast that was able to killed the first swordsman, although I'm not sure how significant of a person he/she was. But more importantly, we learn that the white whale is a mabeast and similar to the previous mabeasts it reacts very strongly to the scent of the Witch. Of course, Subaru being the idiot he was reveals this to Otto and is subsequently sacrificed by the merchant in a fit of panic, hysteria, and fear.

Subaru wasn't killed by the white whale for whatever reason and even manages to reach Roswaal's domain before the Witch's Cult attacks it. However, even after waking up in the mansion he is still as unhinged and incoherent as before. He rambles and raves to Emilia about an impending danger, before ultimately attacking Emilia verbally about her failures. At this point he literally cannot pull himself together to string a coherent sentence, which is all we can expect of Subaru I guess at this point.

However, the biggest reveal is probably how sinister and cruel his curse is. It almost gives a will or consciousness to the miasma that surrounds him. In particular, how lovingly his heart gets caressed by the hand of the witch before receding back and show the folly of Subaru's moment of recklessness or courage depending on how you interpret it. In previous iterations when Subaru tries to tell about his return by Death it always seemed to be a direct threat that if he tries to ignore the warnings, he will die. But of course, this is Re:Zero and suffering is taken to another level. It's not Subaru who dies, but Emilia through some unexplainable shenanigans of the witch. It just is shocking to see how much more pervasive and powerful this curse is than previously thought. The irony of it all is just fitting.

We see Betty again after a while and she says some pretty vague things. It's almost as if she actually is aware of these loops that Subaru is repeating. It's speculation at this point, but that is what caught my attention when she made her debut in front of Subaru cradling Emilia's lifeless corpse. For the next action she takes is sending Subaru away from the mansion, although I am not too sure what her motivation is. Pity perhaps? Subaru can't seem to make up his mind though. When the white whale is about to eat him he screams not wanting to die. When he inadvertently kills Emilia, he begs for Beatrice to kill him. Acting like a coward as usual I guess.

Puck's contract is dissolved with Emilia's death and Betty sends Subaru away to a place she can't see him die. It's interesting as Betty sends Emilia's corpse as well along with Subaru, which is kind of odd. We again see Subaru begging someone to end his life and as if getting his wish Betelguese and the witch's cult appears. Not surprising though appears Subaru is able to see Betelguese's Unseen Hand, which takes on a very familiar shape of the witch's hands. I wonder why Subaru can see it now, is it because the miasma is getting stronger?

I was worried when it seemed like Betelguese was going to defile Emilia's dead body in front of him, but luckily or unluckily enough Puck shows up and is pissed.

Another great episode, but I am starting to get a little tired of the crap Subaru is having to deal with.

Hmm... I think that is about all I want to talk about, but I feel like I am forgetting something. Must be my imagination.

[Requiem-x]

Just when I thought the series was getting stale, it brings it back once again. Funny how it is more reliable as a whole than its protagonist right now. That said, the last bit with Emilia was just fate kicking Subaru in the balls, or at least it looks like it, but considering how things have gone it COULD be his fault somehow.

Also, as an inmediate impression, its admirable Emilia is still willing to listen to Subaru, and believe him, after all the crap that's gone down. I know the whole point of this arc seems to be she's not a waifu, but damn, EMT indeed.

What else, what else, oh right, the hell happened to Rem? I also thought it was the white whale messing with Subaru's head at first, but Otto's reaction came before that, and now things seem to have gone way too far for it just to be Subaru's imagination. Like, how the hell would he know about those dark vectors? Even if it got a bit overshadowed by the stuff at the end, that twist really came out of nowhere, and you can bet I want to know what is that about. And all the other stuff too. Well played, Re:zero.

Looks like the next episode is a big one. "From zero"...

Spoiler for Not an actual question or request, just thinking out loud:

We actually NT9 now?

[blakstealth]

Good lord. Puck in that last scene looked like a goddamn G.

[DemonneoPT]

@Elestia

Man, how can you call Subaru a coward if we are speaking about the same guy that jumped to the mabeasts nest just to save the kids? The same guy that is willing to go against nature itself and suicide so he can save Rem and Emilia... i mean, he is messed up at this point but not a coward!

[Dist]

So why does Puck keep referring to Emilia as his daughter? First with that giant creature-like Puck in the snow couple episodes back and now again ..

[Mangonel]

This feels like its starting to become an exercise in masochism... At the very least he doesn't have to see Emilia's corpse desecrated. Small favors right?

We've been shown quite thoroughly that Subaru's mental constitution has its limits. I feel hes being broken to the point where another self-induced rally of determination is going to strain believability.

I wonder if we'll get some more info on the parameters of his ability/curse. Something to let him plan at least a little bit. Perhaps it will be related to the increase in Witch's miasma hes carrying?

[larethian]

Originally Posted by bakato

What took Pack so long to act?

He needs to relocate himself physically and it takes a finite amount of time.

Originally Posted by CR subs

Judging by her reaction??

Ah-reh CR??

[Twi]

Dunno. Maybe Puck is so old he just considers her a surrogate daughter?

[Syan48306]

Man. Subaru, stop losing focus.

The first thing you tell Emilia when you see her is "we've got to go, now." You can't just do that, you've got explain yourself. I thought you learned that in the previous episode. Negotiate to get what you want. :/

Beatrice is a very interesting character. It's almost as if she knows what's going on but can't stomach actually killing him so she sends him off to die somewhere else. Then again, she might just dislike killing. Maybe we'll find out later.

Could Subaru be turning more and more into the authority of Pride? It's as if his own hidden hands from within him killed Emilia. After that, he can also see Betelgeuse's hands too. Perhaps that lines up with the witches smell getting stronger? Purely speculation.


EDIT: I guess Rem is still second to Emilia for Subaru.

Rem dies = run run run, "I don't want to die"
Emilia dies = kill meeeeeeeee.

Lulz

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by aohige

Next episode is titled "From Zero". Get hyped.
That was the chapter that turned normal novel readers into raving fans who won't shut the hell up.

Please tell me this means that there will be less suffering in the future.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

Good lord. Puck in that last scene looked like a goddamn G.

Puck looked like floating Gilgamesh unleashing Gate of Babylon there.

[Tong]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Please tell me this means that there will be less suffering in the future.

Never. Suffering more and more is the point.

[HandofFate]

Since this series seems to be going for the seven sins motif, what interpretation of pride is Subaru showing? That everyone should just get what's he's saying without taking into account their awareness and circumstances?

With that, wonder if other characters are showing other aspects.
Roswall is showing a bit of wrath.

Rem with her sacrificing herself so hard each time for Subaru might be something, and not just total affection.

[Pen3]

I also get the feeling that Betty does know about Subarus death power, but can't directly talk about just like how Subaru can't. Perhaps just bringing it up and questioning Subaru will kill her, him or somebody else near.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Elestia

He rambles and raves to Emilia about an impending danger, before ultimately attacking Emilia verbally about her failures.

That actually seemed like he was critizing himself rather than her. Emilia seemed to have picked up on it too. He's hurting a ton and he can't even hide that anymore.

Originally Posted by Phantom

Please tell me this means that there will be less suffering in the future.

You know nobody can say anything explicit about that. Just wait and see.

[Jerseykid]

I keep worrying Subaru isn't going to die fast enough before he hits a save point

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by DemonneoPT

@Elestia

Man, how can you call Subaru a coward if we are speaking about the same guy that jumped to the mabeasts nest just to save the kids? The same guy that is willing to go against nature itself and suicide so he can save Rem and Emilia... i mean, he is messed up at this point but not a coward!

But is he the same guy? Let's face it, Subaru is showing us his ugliest side, with good reason, but it is really hard not call him out on some of the stupid things he has said and done. I still love him and wish he could pull himself together again like in the past, but it doesn't look like its going to happen soon due to what he has been subjected to.

[DemonneoPT]

Originally Posted by Syan48306

Man. Subaru, stop losing focus.

The first thing you tell Emilia when you see her is "we've got to go, now." You can't just do that, you've got explain yourself. I thought you learned that in the previous episode. Negotiate to get what you want. :/

Yes, because explaining to her why she has to go away from the mansion turned out to be much better option. So good she even died

Originally Posted by Syan48306

EDIT: I guess Rem is still second to Emilia for Subaru.

Rem dies = run run run, "I don't want to die"
Emilia dies = kill meeeeeeeee.

Lulz

More like:
Rem is dead and Emilia dies because of him = Kill me! At that point, the timeline is too much fucked up for him to be there.