Re:Zero - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[watisit]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I don't think it's anything like consciousness transfer. I just think all of them are like that.

Even if so surely not all of them can use the Unseen Hand. But probably one would have to kill all of his followers. Otherwise he/she could just keep transferring around. Or maybe just a selected few. Even then that would be 9/10 of them. Depending if it's just 10 fingers or plus one brain.

Originally Posted by Applehell

Yes, only Archbishops have a gospel. What Mimi was speaking from was mostly hearsay of what they could gather about the cult from rumors, so good deal of their infomation might be inaccurate.

It is certain that archbishops have a gospel. But it is possible that the normal members have a copy too.

Edit: It seems Betel II doesn't have the memories of Betel I though. Otherwise she would've killed Subaru on sight.

[Jaden]

Edit: It seems Betel II doesn't seem to have the memories of Betel I though. Otherwise she would've killed him on sight.

Would she though? It'd be the reasonable thing to do, in self-defense...but at this point, I have to suspect that the cultists just can't bring themselves to kill Subaru. It'd be blasphemous to kill the one most loved by their goddess.

Also gives us a nice clue: whoever CAN kill Subaru is not a cultist.

[SuitUp]

^
Well, a few loops before Betelguse was going to, the only reason he didn't was Puck's intervention..

[Harbinger]

Ram :O My initial impression was that she's part of the Witch's cult... :O Please, let this be just a misunderstanding!

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by Harbinger

Ram :O My initial impression was that she's part of the Witch's cult... :O Please, let this be just a misunderstanding!

Ram was killed by the Witches cult in one of the loops, you could see the daggers on her. Also notice she is wearing Emilia's camp robe.

[Arkard]

Originally Posted by Harbinger

Ram :O My initial impression was that she's part of the Witch's cult... :O Please, let this be just a misunderstanding!

As mentioned in an earlier post, it's likely she thinks Subaru betrayed their faction. As Subaru mentioned earlier, it'll get messy if the message that informs them of the alliance doesn't get delivered. Yet they sent one messenger into a place flooded with cultists and that's being evacuated... So likely, the message never reached Emilia's faction... So what would Ram see?

Subaru without Rem marching into Roswell's territory prepared for battle with most of the major heavy hitters of the rival factions and a ton of mercenaries. It's hard not to assume the worse, especially given the circumstances they left him in the capital.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by watisit

Even if so surely not all of them can use the Unseen Hand. But probably one would have to kill all of his followers. Otherwise he/she could just keep transferring around. Or maybe just a selected few. Even then that would be 9/10 of them. Depending if it's just 10 fingers or plus one brain.

Well mostly I meant just the fingers, really. If it was a transfer of consciousness, they would not refer to themselves as such, and wouldn't re-discover things they should already know.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Well mostly I meant just the fingers, really. If it was a transfer of consciousness, they would not refer to themselves as such, and wouldn't re-discover things they should already know.

That seems to be the case.
So I assume that when the "head" is killed, the authority (and the madness that comes with it?) is transfered to a finger...it's possible the same applies to the gospel, except Subaru has it, so it didn't transfer.

[Jaden]

I have to suspect that the cultists just can't bring themselves to kill Subaru.

Originally Posted by SuitUp

^
Well, a few loops before Betelguse was going to, the only reason he didn't was Puck's intervention..

Nah, we don't know if he would've killed Subaru. He just finds Subaru's lack of faith...disturbing.

The worst they've done to Subaru is rough him up and chain him in the dungeon.

[Loran Cehack]

So, basically, anyone in the witch's cult can became that crazy over the top betelgeuse, with the unseen hands and everything? talk about being OP huh?

Man I hope i'm wrong, but even if Subaru succeeds, Wilhelm will die. The man is giving death flags everywhere with those wise man speeches. It's the same thing as a pilot in the Gundam universe seeing his family picture before the battle.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Loran Cehack

Man I hope i'm wrong, but even if Subaru succeeds, Wilhelm will die. The man is giving death flags everywhere with those wise man speeches. It's the same thing as a pilot in the Gundam universe seeing his family picture before the battle.

Actually I was expecting Wilhelm to sacrifice himself in this episode, but looks like it wasn't needed. Now I don't know anymore. They might just kinda shelf the character.

[Loran Cehack]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Actually I was expecting Wilhelm to sacrifice himself in this episode, but looks like it wasn't needed. Now I don't know anymore. They might just kinda shelf the character.

If we look at the fact that his "arc" was concluded and he resembles the role of the hero's guide and counselor, it kind of marks him to either be left aside little by little or to die honorably. I prefer the later, storywise, to truly solidify him as a memorable character, but so much shit has already happened in this show and everyone is "okay" (since the real objective, at least for now, seems to mature Subaru's personality to it's true potential), that everything goes haha

[sryroo]

You know what? why some of you want Wilhelm to die. Rather than that, I want the author to make Wilhelm's character more active. Just because he old or have many 'flags', doesn't make him will die later in story (okay, I know some of character in other story will die if they have that many 'flags'). I like his character. How he give motivation to Subaru. It's like how grandfather comforting his grandson.

When I read comment in other forums how some of people like 'this chara should die because I don't like him/her or boring or he is unbearable to watch', it's just make me slightly mad. I mean come on they are too human you know. I know it's just anime and kind of understand how some people like that, but let's focus and enjoy characters progress and story (let's focus in Subaru's achievement). Well... at least, in this forum, you want Wilhelm die to make him memorable character, but, still I want Wilhelm to live. It's just I can't imagine how sad I am if Wilhelm die for sacrificing himself.

[sion21]

Originally Posted by Harbinger

Ram :O My initial impression was that she's part of the Witch's cult... :O Please, let this be just a misunderstanding!

that make no sense, Witch cult killed her family and the whole village not to mention killing her numerous time during loops.

[Key Board]

Wilhelm is like the Thundergod Cid / Orlandu of this show

[moridin84]

Wilhelm already broke his death flag. He's actually more likely to survive than most characters now.

Ram thinking that Subaru betrayed them makes the most sense. Still, I think this is far too simple to be a real explanation. Plus, there's not a lot of tension in that. Subaru isn't going to die this far in and Subaru neither has the ability or desire to hurt Ram.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by watisit

It is certain that archbishops have a gospel. But it is possible that the normal members have a copy too.

Actually scratch that, you're right. This doesn't disprove that idea.

Still the information is mainly based on rumors, and the Finger not having one points to this most likely not being true.

[Dengar]

I'm not saying he won't die, but as of this point in the story, I see little reason to kill him off. Or even write him out of the story. I think he can serve a fine role as Subaru's sword. Gods know he needs all the help he can get, being just some Japanese shut-in.

[DemonneoPT]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

I understood it differently. With how Julius formulated it, it could be that Sloth is made up by all the followers under and including Betelgeuse.

That also makes sense. I went with the transfer conscience route because the new cult girl acted just like Betelgeuse. But i guess if more of them appear again and if they no longer refer to them as Betelgeuse then it's safe to say Julius was indeed correct!

And Subaru being Pride gets even more support after this episode. He even got a gospel too . I wonder what terrible things will still happen to him for that to happen...

[Tynkerd]

First, this is not a spoiler, as everything in this summary has already happened/been skipped in the anime. No future events. (Just in case, though, I will use the spoiler tags)

I just finished reading the chapters of the WN that correspond to most of Episode 22. I just wanted to point out some differences I noticed...haven't read past Ch. 65 though, so I don't know what is coming, or what Ram is doing yet.

Spoiler for Episode22 & WN Comparison (not really spoiler, no future events):

---Subaru walks alone through the forest to run into the witch cultists.
---He knows they never attacked him from previous encounters, as with the Whale that one time Otto threw him from the cart, so he believes he is safe. He uses that to get them to tell Petelgeuse he is on his way.
---He confronts Petelgeuse, Wilhelm jumps in and chops him in half.
---They group up, and since the "leader" was defeated, they decide to break up into two groups, one heads to the village & mansion, the other goes to hunt the last of the cultists.
---Subaru is in the group that goes to the village, and when the near it Wilhelm gets suspicious seeing all the wagons, and goes in first.
---Wilhelm beckons everyone in. There were more carts than anticipated, because Subaru had Anastasia do some extra prep work, and the leader of the wagons is arguing with a woman from the village.
---Subaru goes up to them to help solve the dispute and, looking at the woman, says..."Who the heck are you? I know everyone from the village, yet I've never seen your face before..."
---Lady goes crazy using "unseen hands" to grab most everyone by the throat, and causes disease of the mind, like with the whale. Abilities the other Petelgeuse didn't have.
---Long story short, the ground dragon bucks the Petelgeuse clone into a building, freeing Wilhelm, Subaru tells him of the hands, and Wilhelm starts to use his Treasure Sword to break the earth, sending showers of dirt at Petelgeuse.
---The dirt highlights the hands, Wilhelm dodges them, gets in close and P#2 gets stabbed and dies, but not before screaming about how they destroyed one of his fingers, and he is going to cut them to pieces. Then "she" dies.
---Relaxing, Subaru turns to jump onto his ground dragon, who growls at him. He turns around to see Wilhelm without his head...turns back to see the ground dragon lose its head...then back to see all the soldiers with him die.
---He has no idea what is going on, freaks out, grabs Wilhelms sword, utters a one line that ends the same way Petelgeuse ends his, slits his own throat and dies.

That is what happens in the Web Novel, when Subaru and Co. run into Petelguese #2. Quite a huge difference from the Anime...I am assuming Subaru resets after killing P#1, and that is where the anime decided to jump in due to time constraints.

Hope you enjoyed this summary.