(L) Tensei shitara Ken deshita (Reincarnated as a Sword)

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

It's better than Shield Hero, but still a superficial and gratuitous solution to racism enacted by an external 'liberator'. Fran doesn't have Raphtalia and Swordmaiden's fatal problems, but she needs some positives as well, and I'm afraid three times as many as a character who didn't have to share a show and a role with a cursed sword.

If the second episode gives Fran an inward life of her own, complex motivations and relationships, well and good. Tactical ability isn't character, however, as Chihaya Gunzou and Kaizuka Inaho amply demonstrate.

Considering she has literally been a slave for four years of her young life, I think you should give the series some time for her to develop such connections. You’d be selling the series pretty short if you think she’s little or nothing more than a meat chopper with a sword for a father figure.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Considering she has literally been a slave for four years of her young life, I think you should give the series some time for her to develop such connections. You’d be selling the series pretty short if you think she’s little or nothing more than a meat chopper with a sword for a father figure.

Indeed, developed character takes a little time to develop, so they need to urgently pick up the pace. Preferably in ep 1 instead of all that rubbish with the sword. Even a slave would have relationships, albeit stifled, with parents and other slaves, as well as character progress from a happy cat to an abuse survivor. I'd have liked to see that. Suffering isn't character in itself, but Fran has the cute and convenient emptiness of a kuudere rather than the blank-eyed, desperate inner struggle of an actual sufferer. To be fair, she does have a basic personal goal which convincingly proceeds from her situation.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Fran's goal is to evolve and make life better for her tribe. MC's goal is for Fran to be happy though in order to achieve that he has to learn a lot. It's actually a very long story - the original web novel has over 1000 chapters.

[Huh...?]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

It's actually a very long story - the original web novel has over 1000 chapters.

Sometimes, Web Novel Chapter count don't help in understanding the length of a story, as Web Novel Chapter size can vary depending on the Writer.
On the other hand, a Light Novel has a fixed amount of pages and word-count. So, its better to notify that.
And in the case of this Series, its currently 14 LN Volumes long, and still ongoing.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

Indeed, developed character takes a little time to develop, so they need to urgently pick up the pace. Preferably in ep 1 instead of all that rubbish with the sword. Even a slave would have relationships, albeit stifled, with parents and other slaves, as well as character progress from a happy cat to an abuse survivor. I'd have liked to see that. Suffering isn't character in itself, but Fran has the cute and convenient emptiness of a kuudere rather than the blank-eyed, desperate inner struggle of an actual sufferer. To be fair, she does have a basic personal goal which convincingly proceeds from her situation.

"Relationships" are hard with people who either see you as unworthy of their attention or trash that deserves to be crushed. Much less with the dead. And I wouldn't say she's just "conveniently empty". We see in both the first and second that, while she's either never learned to adequately express herself or conversely learned to suppress any expressions, she's really full of defiance. They delayed the explanation until the second episode, but her race is viewed as the absolute lowest of the low, basically part of a larger group of races whose primary pride is their power but unable to gain any of that power for themselves. Her parents worked themselves to death trying to achieve the "evolution" that the rest measure power by, to prove their people's worth, and yet all Fran hears is that they're completely worthless and her parents died as idiots pursuing the impossible. She's desperate to gain power, fulfill her parents' dreams and prove her people to be more than garbage. Sure it's not much, but it's better than nothing.

And while I can understand your frustration, I don't think this is so huge of a fit with "discriminated slave rescued by big man". And in any case, I'd much rather see a girl in trouble get a helping hand from a male MC before growing into someone strong in her own right than the modern Western take of a woman whose character is broken in the efforts to assure that she never needs a man for anything anytime. Men and women who help, save and protect one another seems much more natural and interesting.

All that said, I will agree that RPG mechanics are kind of dumb. Especially when they result in instant boosts like "you killed a cook, now you're a chef!" In fact, rather than "downtrodden girl saved by man", I feel like we have a tendency to often just have "downtrodden, discriminated PERSON gets sudden power-up with little to no connection to own efforts". And that is something we've had in major Shounen works for decades now. It seems almost a rarity to have a hero actually become powerful through individual efforts. At the least, she's in good company.

[Alchemist007]

Had to speed through 2/3 of the ep to get past that mind numbingly boring RPG leveling crap, don't know why they spent more than 4 minutes on that.

Will give it a couple more eps to do something else.

[ramlaen]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Had to speed through 2/3 of the ep to get past that mind numbingly boring RPG leveling crap, don't know why they spent more than 4 minutes on that.

Will give it a couple more eps to do something else.

The anime blazed through the solo grinding prologue before the MC meets Fran.

[alex_drian]

Watched first and second episodes. As a fan of the WN (migrated to the LN when the translation when to shit) this is one that really REALLY I wanted and was waiting for years of maybe I'm super biased but I like what I'm watching.

Is not as if I was expecting animation in the level of Mushoku Tensei (would have been freaking great) but I at least would have liked the adaptation in the same level as Slime but I think everyone would say the same about their favorite story. It wasn't meant to be it seems. Animation is decent, good even considering the current standard with probably some episodes less polished than others so MC's are gonna need to carry the show. What is good because they nailed it with Teacher voice. When I read the novel in my mind it sounded like Rimuru for some reason so this voice is a better fit for it. Fran sounds like she should but need more "hm".

Episode 1 makes for the tutorial (that is necessary as later you people know jack shit about the workings of the world) and introduction and episode 2 is really were the adventure start. Good stuff.

[Cloudedmind]

I'm basically here for Shinichiro Miki...and Fran is cute.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

I'm basically here for Shinichiro Miki...and Fran is cute.

Ryuusei as a dad certainly doesn’t hurt.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

There are such cases. I can very much say Tenken isn’t one of them.

Such racism turns into great satisfaction when it’s the one being discriminated against who squashes the discriminators like in episode 2. And bro, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
And no, Teach is Sword Dad, not Sword Lolicon. He dotes on her and her cuteness like any adoring anime dad does.

Teach is giving her significant stat boosts and skills, but indeed, it’s still Fran who uses those stat boosts and skills, and she’s already showing us just how well she uses them. As he said himself, he’s going to make her stronger, not do the fighting for her. Just like you’d equip any rare/legendary weapon in an RPG to make you stronger but it doesn’t fight for you.

She certainly does for me. My favorite scenes are all ones where she’s center stage.

People thought Teach would be carrying her, but instead she’s carrying the show. (Not saying Teach or other characters are boring or stupid, but Fran is the MVP)

I will say he's a bit ahead of the average legendary weapon. Since he can pull off stunts like using support magic while Fran focuses on other parts of the fight like maneuvering and lining up her sword strikes. I like that it is a team setup. He's not just carrying her around, but she's not just fighting on her own either while he chills out.

I am glad that he's definitely letting Fran make her own calls while just chipping in his perspective. It really wouldn't be making her any stronger if she wasn't given that autonomy. Plus considering she was a slave just recently...that's just better anyways. Might be easier on him as well. If being reincarnated into a weapon influenced his mindset in terms of killing it probably also makes him more comfortable being wielded than just doing things by himself.

Definitely happy that she's carrying the show in a lot of ways. Hard to tell from a summary or title how important Fran herself was going to be. But she's definitely been a star early on .

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

"Relationships" are hard with people who either see you as unworthy of their attention or trash that deserves to be crushed. Much less with the dead. And I wouldn't say she's just "conveniently empty". We see in both the first and second that, while she's either never learned to adequately express herself or conversely learned to suppress any expressions, she's really full of defiance.

And while I can understand your frustration, I don't think this is so huge of a fit with "discriminated slave rescued by big man". And in any case, I'd much rather see a girl in trouble get a helping hand from a male MC before growing into someone strong in her own right than the modern Western take of a woman whose character is broken in the efforts to assure that she never needs a man for anything anytime. Men and women who help, save and protect one another seems much more natural and interesting.

All that said, I will agree that RPG mechanics are kind of dumb. Especially when they result in instant boosts like "you killed a cook, now you're a chef!" In fact, rather than "downtrodden girl saved by man", I feel like we have a tendency to often just have "downtrodden, discriminated PERSON gets sudden power-up with little to no connection to own efforts". And that is something we've had in major Shounen works for decades now. It seems almost a rarity to have a hero actually become powerful through individual efforts. At the least, she's in good company.

If the other enslaved races view catpeople as lower than themselves (should've been made clear in ep 1) that's an impediment to cooperation, but shared adversary among the slaves is a large incentive to it; it's still very possible. Apart from issues of gender, erasure of slaves helping and liberating each other in favour of a 'white/Isekaied saviour' narrative is a genuine problem. I'm being extremely picky about an anime that is quite removed from real world racism and slavery, but it's more important than how many goblins a flying sword can kill.

I have a fair tolerance for male mentors, but when they're generic JRPG Isekai MCs, the faults compound themselves. Growth does realistically require effort, and mentor support, but the latter can easily be supplied by a female mentor or a group. A female character isn't 'broken' by being independent and competent, a mentor rather than mentee, any more than a male character; if the writing in itself is unconvincing that's a separate issue. Mutual support is great if it isn't mutual support of the male character, as it generally is.

[moridin84]

An inexperienced MC finding an intelligent magic weapon which helps them become stronger is a pretty common story. It's just in this case the MC is the intelligent magic weapon.

Fran's utter brutality towards people being racist towards her race is actually one of her most interesting characteristics.

Definitely happy that she's carrying the show in a lot of ways. Hard to tell from a summary or title how important Fran herself was going to be. But she's definitely been a star early on .

Expect her to continue carrying the show.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

If the other enslaved races view catpeople as lower than themselves (should've been made clear in ep 1) that's an impediment to cooperation, but shared adversary among the slaves is a large incentive to it; it's still very possible. Apart from issues of gender, erasure of slaves helping and liberating each other in favour of a 'white/Isekaied saviour' narrative is a genuine problem. I'm being extremely picky about an anime that is quite removed from real world racism and slavery, but it's more important than how many goblins a flying sword can kill.

I have a fair tolerance for male mentors, but when they're generic JRPG Isekai MCs, the faults compound themselves. Growth does realistically require effort, and mentor support, but the latter can easily be supplied by a female mentor or a group. A female character isn't 'broken' by being independent and competent, a mentor rather than mentee, any more than a male character; if the writing in itself is unconvincing that's a separate issue. Mutual support is great if it isn't mutual support of the male character, as it generally is.

That's a possibility perhaps, but only ONE possibility, and not that likely of one really. Especially since this is a magic world where "slavery" involves curses that make it impossible to defy their owners. There's a whole lot more despair to be found when your "master" doesn't even have to lift a finger to make you bow to the ground or jump into the jaws of an attacking bear with no possibility or resistance. Something like that's likely to break a person. Moreover, while there may be some impulse to seek friendship, the desire to lift oneself up also very frequently leads to a desire to single out those that are even more pitiful. They go in with no respect for her, so all they see is a worthless creature too stupid to even realize how worthless she is and how useless her struggles are. It takes a whole lot to break through barriers and get the thoroughly beaten to rally once more, and usually one of the main requirements is some sense of hope, something they didn't have and definitely wouldn't see in someone who by very nature of her race could never amount to anything. Also, she probably doesn't help things by being so full of hate and defiance toward anyone who speaks ill of her family or race. It's made clear from the start that this is the first reaction almost everyone has to black cats. Feelings of comradery against a mutual oppressor is hard to come by with someone who you "know" to be trash and who just keeps lashing out at you and the oppressors, which never does any good except to make those oppressors even angrier and more abusive.

And the problem isn't women being independent or competent, that's just what Twitter and Hollywood say in defense of their legitimately broken characters. Sure, you could have a story with a woman mentor teaching a downtrodden girl and helping her grow. Such stories have been written in the past plenty. But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the mentor or helper being a man. I'm sorry but I just find it dumb and pathetic to say "needing help is fine, as long as the help doesn't come from a male".

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the mentor or helper being a man. I'm sorry but I just find it dumb and pathetic to say "needing help is fine, as long as the help doesn't come from a male".

It maintains the patriarchal idea that women must be guided, protected and effectively controlled by men, under which the humanity of women has been legally denied to them for centuries, and is still denied at present. Obviously. Male mentors aren't barred by any means, as I've already said, or necessarily sexist, but they reflect a problem it's good to be aware of. Especially, as I also said, when the male mentor is as unworthy as a banal isekai protagonist given to mindless bloodletting and chauvinist fantasies about sexy elves.

[moridin84]

The problem is that your opinion is not based on the story itself but on the type of story it is. The stereotype.

This annoys people who are fans of the story since they think you are unfairly discriminating against it.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by moridin84

The problem is that your opinion is not based on the story itself but on the type of story it is. The stereotype.

This annoys people who are fans of the story since they think you are unfairly discriminating against it.

Stereotypes aren't going to be what makes a story good; pandering to prejudice will be what makes it bad. A story shouldn't be condemned by its genre; there's no reason cowboys have to be white, starship captains have to be men, or fantasy worlds have to be European and chauvinistic. If they are, then it is the story content that I'm saying could be better. The problem isn't that this is an isekai, the problem is the overpowered male saviour, the enslaved animal-girl, and the failure of JPG mechanics or isekaied MC to add anything to the story except tedium; problems general to modern Isekai stories which also appear in this one.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Feels kinda weird to be making a big deal about the gender of a sword.

[felix]

Originally Posted by moridin84

An inexperienced MC finding an intelligent magic weapon which helps them become stronger is a pretty common story. It's just in this case the MC is the intelligent magic weapon.

Honestly feels more like it's one of those "suppose to be common" but hardly ever see it. Can you name some.

[Tenzen12]

Zero no Tsukaima, Soul Eater, Noragami, Durararara, Nise Seiken Monogatari, Rance...